To those who've been in abusive relationships - when did the abuse start?

[russianreubles]

Just read the post at this site: www.kveller.com/blog/parenting/a-letter-to-my-daughter-about-fighting-back/

I'm not 100% clear about the time scales in her relationship but it sounds like a nice man turned abusive almost overnight and after 2 years or possibly longer.

I've always thought that men who are abusive by nature can hide this pretty much completely but only for a limited amount of time. Is this story unusual? To all the women out there unfortunate enough to have been in an abusive relationship, for how long was the relationship non-abusive to begin with? Is there any way of not picking an abusive man?

I am early thirties and still single but want a family so will not have years and years to get to know someone. Is there any way to "screen" for someone who will become abusive?

my stbxh seems to relish coming round and picking something to focus on..in a good mood, its something he will do "for me". and bizarrely is obsessive about length of ds nails..as if that earns him Dad of the year award! mm there is more to parenting then nail clipping and Jekyll and Hyde impersonations! lady wordy post v appt too..the charmer will forever more send me running now!

garlic Y Y and more Y to these..........

• Putting other people down. Starts small, with a few 'witty' backhanders about other people, grows a little bit with offhand rudeness to a waitress or somesuch, escalates with a horrible rant at or about a third party. This is the trial run: he's showing you what you'll get.

• Weird boundary-breaking: turning up at your place unexpectedly; walking out of an event that revolves around your family & friends; getting behind the wheel of your car without asking; opening your purse for some cash. He's showing you who calls the shots on your turf.

I have a good friend who is right in the thick of that ^^ right now. She is not listening to herself and charmer is in full flow. She is giving up her house and moving in with him at the end of the month. I want to cry for her and her children, but she just wants me to be happy for her happiness........

I just don't think there is any more I can do, does anyone listen at this stage do you think??

MC, moon..not unless you can get their to read some of the books/links without alluding to your fears being for her...but otherwise, no..I guess you risk her alienating you

I have already said too much. It's just awful. She just wants to believe that the charmer is him and totally and utterly avoids acknowledging the horrendous long list of red red red flags.

It is so bad that amongst his long list of red flags he also has an accusation of "going with young girls" by his 'psycho ex'.........my friend has a daughter.

In answer to the OP though, red flags are there pretty much straight away IMO, if you are prepared to acknowledge them.

My head is nodding repeatedly and I am saying "mmm" aloud in an empty room at many of these posts! Criticising dishwasher stacking, childcare, child feeding, the list goes on.

ATM I feel like I never want another relationship. But it's very heartening when I read about people with abusive exes who have gone on to find a happy, supportive relationship later on.

With him for 2 years, began abuse 5 months in. Got progressive Ely worse, had already fallen for his charm, charisma, fancied him etc etc etc.. Fell in love... Tool far too long to leave, and only left with intervention.

Another sign I should have noticed was waitress abuse; this is also very common

he also has an accusation of "going with young girls" by his 'psycho ex'.........my friend has a daughter.

mcmoon, no wonder you're concerned! I feel for you. It's like watching someone walk off the edge of a cliff and they can't hear you shouting :(

I'm not sure I agree with backing off if a friend is about to make sacrifices for a festoon of red flags. I wish people had told me how much they disliked the twunt I married, before I did it. I might still have married him - probably not, actually, as I had doubts at the time - but think I'd have done a lot less 'trying' afterwards, if I'd had friends' warnings to recall.

With me it was almost straight away...3 or 4 months in I suppose.

The problem was that my father had been a dysfunctional, abusive man, then after he left, my older brother bullied and belittled and abused me as well.
I was also bullied at school by boys.
I grew up expecting little else but poor treatment. I expected it, I tolerated it and I minimised it for years as normal.
The red flags were there from the outset, but I didn't know any better.

I have clarity now though, and it would never (and has never) happened to me again. When you know it for what it is, you can't unknow it.

Melody When you know it for what it is, you can't unknow it

I loved that- it gives me hope!

My dh was EA.

This struck a chord:

If at any point you're questioning yourself, wondering how to be "better," wondering what you might have done wrong (because he's not happy with you for some reason), feeling afraid, uneasy, put down, lonely, disrespected or any other negative thing then that's a huge red flag.

This pretty much sums up exactly how I felt with 14-years-older-than-me dh (who is separated from in 2012) ALL THE TIME.

a huge amount of time critiquing dishwasher stacking/tidiness/cleaning/childcare etc etc

Ditto.

The article linked to early in the thread is excellent. My dh got worse and worse the longer we were together, but notably upped the ante as soon as we got married.

The one thing that article doesn't make a big point of but that I think is very important and was in retrospect the first indication of the horrors ahead with dh - he didn't like my friends. Very subtle put-downs from the beginning.

Eventually I lost lots of them and we spent time with his friends, who have now sided with him since we split (because he's a poor long-suffering lamb who married a crazy bitch who's now taken away his kids).

SirSugar pleeeease just tell dippy what you put into late dh's tea...

garlic I have said something. I have said I am really worried. And presented unemotional facts.

She hasn't listened as I knew she wouldn't. But all I hope is, as you said, my words are ringing in her ears. It has dramatically altered our friendship

I ended my relationship in October after recognising the extent of EA, there had been phyisical abuse but i ignored that, as i was bought up in a DV situation and it is fairly common where i live and not thought as a reason to end a relationship, so i would say that i was conditioned to accept this behaviour.

There were red flags from the start, but i wanted a relationship, had low self esteem, so i ignored them.

He started to hit me when i got pregnant (which i miscarried).

I had to take an update of my training on DA in work and realised that i didn't need the AD's that i had gone onto, i needed to end my relationship.

It ended for good after i needed to phone the police because he was kicking my front door, his mother (who he lives with) thinks that i was wrong to do this because "i knew he had a temper, when i went with him".

So he has no reason to change,his family blame every GF that he has ever been with.

mcmoon I'm sorry she has backed off already..I did not mean don't say anything, just know (from experience) that it does alter the friendship. Your intentions are right, but to take on board what you are saying, your friend would have to be willingto take off the blinkers and wriggle out of his charm offensive. You did the best in being neutral..you sound like a good friend so I guess you will around to help her when she needs someone to help pick up the pieces an exit plan
sirsugar, tiredofwaiting.. in the absence of toxins, I am just going to put in for Decree Absolute. That will keep his charm offensive off my back! Just fear that dcs will fall for charm offensive and he will mash their heads as they grow, or pick up on his entitled and mysogynistic attitudes

This post is so good, because I have spent so long wondering if I was in an abusive relationship.

I think the point at the beginning is true, the men are not necessarily abusers, they are just petty, selfish, insecure etc. That is totally what I think of my ex.

He was Mr Wonderful (if slightly boring) at the beginning. We dated for 3 years, then got engaged, then got married once we'd been together 4 years, so it certainly wasn't a whirlwind. The first time I saw a warning sign was just before we got engaged and we were about to move in together. He went mental at me at waterloo train station - shouting at me to 'move it' across the platform because I was too slow to swipe my oyster card. It was so humiliating. A voice in my head said just walk away, as we weren't living together I could just go home. But we had lined up flats to see the next morning near where he lived and I was desperate to move out of my shared house.
I told him forcefully if he ever spoke like that to me again I would punch him in the face. (ha ha - he will prob say I was abusive) But actions speak louder than words, and the fact I went back with him that night rather than walking away showed who was in charge.

Then the whole flat hunting episode he treated me badly. We were going to my close friend's birthday party in a restaurant out of town, and he wouldn't let me look up on his computer where it was or how to get there. He said he knew so I wasn't allowed to look it up. Then when we got to the train station he admitted he didn't know and it was my fault for not sorting it out properly. Then he forced me to go and ask in a bar while he hid outside. I had to go into the loo and cry my eyes out as he was being so mean and controlling. Then when I came out he shouted at me for taking so long. Then he said he wasn't going to go to her party and he was going to leave me stranded late at night in the middle of nowhere.

I knew in theory I could go back home to my own flat as we still weren't living together but I couldn't face telling my friend we weren't coming to her birthday meal. Anyway I burst into hysterical sobs as I couldn't understand why he was being so awful. That gave him a fright and he said sorry and we went to the meal together in the end.

Anyway things just got worse after that, I ignored all signs until we were married, when it got bad on honeymoon. Then really bad when I was pregnant, then even worse when DD was born and I couldn't fight back.

Just to give you an update I left him in the summer, but he is now back on the scene as I am about to give birth to a new baby. It's been good reading this post as it has reminded me of all the dangers. Wish me luck as I try to manage everything!!!

Good luck, summer, and in case you were still wondering, yes, you were in an abusive relationship. Why do you need him back? Is the new baby his?

For me it started about 6 months into the relationship. First of all it was not wanting me to meet friends, calling my friends slags, checking my phone, accusing me of being with other people when I was meeting friends. The first physical assault was once he was insulted one of my friends and I stuck up for her and he pinched me on the leg but hard enough to bruise. My ex didn't beat me up but he bit hard enough to draw blood, pinched, pulled hair, grabbed, hands round throat, sexually assaulted me, threatened, deleted and blocked friends numbers in my phone.

He actually stopped being abusive for over a year before starting again but even worse than before. As far as I know he is happily married to someone else now, obviously I gave no idea what goes on behind closed doors but I don't think that there is always a 'classic' abuse case.

Another view from outside an abusive relationship, its a long time ago but my SIL started seeing someone. DH (her brother) and I couldn't see what she saw in him but we did see the little put downs chipping away at her self esteeem right from the start. He even told her brother she wasn't that bad looking although could lose a bit of weight (she was size 6 / 8 at the time and well below her normal weight). I even said, after he smashed up his own motorcycle that I thought he would be violent as he couldn't control himself(pretty big red flag that and only a couple of months in). She was surprised at the comment but unfortunately didn't take any notice, I think he had manipulated enough by that time so that she was dependent upon him.

He managed to drive a wedge between her and her family but fortunately not a complete one and a number of friends stood by her and refused to be alienated. I am so grateful to them, it took a lot of doing especially as they saw him for what he was and what he was doing. It took a while, but she eventually left him, thank god.

Wishing you luck, summer, while wondering what on earth compels you to try and 'manage' a partner who bigs himself up by slapping you down

Small children are all demands, egos and boundary-pushing: that's developmentally normal! You want an adult with a child's emotional maturity as well?? Luck - you'll need it!

Well I've had a big moan on the lone parents post, as have been a single mum with no support for 6 months and it's been really hard. The new baby is his and he has 2 weeks paternity leave. My family haven't helped me at all and my mum has said I can come and stay for 2 weeks once baby is born but she won't come to help me as she doesn't want to do childcare (or housework or cooking for that matter) I'm having a c-section so won't be able to look after a toddler and a newborn on my own. It's a total nightmare, I feel so let down. It's one thing talking about leaving, and everyone agreed it was the right thing to do. But friends and family are no where to be seen now

Is there any available help, through a scheme such as Home Start?

I think a lot of it comes down to failing to understand boundaries. We can all make mistakes, but people who become abusive often have no clear boundaries and simply do not recognise when they are overstepping the mark. They then blame the other person because they don't understand that they are in the wrong.

Examples:

• failing to respect your other relationships - eg work colleagues, friends, family by behaving inappropriately (eg getting really angry when something happens to you rather than being supportive to help YOU deal with it; turning up at your place of work; getting antsy about you going out with friends; getting over familiar with your friends and making you feel like the outsider);
• giving your stuff to other people (eg books) or otherwise treating YOUR stuff as if its his;
• spoiling what should be a special day for you (eg by being hungover or getting into an argument such as what film to see or where to eat);
• laughing it off if they have upset you.

I think attitudes to shared money is also a good indicator. Someone who won't let you pay in a restaurant may seem gallant, but they might also be being controlling. Do they respect your wish to pay an equal share? If they borrow money off you, do they pay it back or do they feel entitled to your money? Do they make you feel mean if you don't want to spend a lot on something he likes, or criticize you when you buy something for yourself?

Sorry to hear that summerinthesun.

Oh, summer, what a pain :(

Wishing you all the cool detachment you can muster, to accept the help without feeling enmeshed. It's difficult at the best of times, let alone with a newborn, so please don't blame yourself when you wibble! Hope your birth goes well and smoothly. xx

Mine shouted at me completely unnecessarily and very nastily a couple of months in. I was staying with him for the weekend and I broke down afterwards, and he was very reassuring, saying he didn't mean it etc.

In hindsight it was a great big red flag but I didn't know it then. If a partner behaved like that towards me now, I'd end it there and then, because I'd know where it was leading. I wouldn't shout at someone like that, so why should I accept it from someone else?