Dating - where am i going wrong and do i just resign myself to being alone.

[notsuchaspringchicken]

Having just spent my 5th christmas on my own, being on my own forever seems more and more likely.

Im 34. Im divorced and have one child. I work, if part time. I have interests and hobbies and am not unattractive, if on the curvey side.

I go out, though its more meals and activities than clubbing, which i hate. I have not had one sniff of interest from any man in the 5 years ive been single.

Ive done online dating for years and never got anywhere with that either.
Having had a break from it i signed up to several sites yesterday, and ive had no messages, not even from the free sites where its known for being a bit of a meat market, where a while back i was beating them off with a stick. Any views i have had have been from men over 40 who look like there are actually closer to 50. Its depressing.

I dont understand where im going wrong and how come i seem to be so unattractive to men. A new girl started at work, shes not pretty, but is thin. And is just 20. Within 2 days she had been asked out by 4 men. I dont get if its my age, or the fact im a size 16, or am a lone parent? or just not what men want????

Sounds like a plan!!!!

Have you actually met any men who you are interested in OP and who haven't been interested in you?

This thread is confusing, you say, where am I going wrong but have you actually wanted to see any of these people again or are you interested in anyone in real life who isn't interested in you?

But you've had loads of dates and some flings and a relationship. It doesn't sound like a disaster to me. You haven't met Mr Right (is there such a thing?) but I think you might be over dramatising the situation.

Sorry, I seem to have ruffled some feathers - didn't mean to.

I should perhaps add that the two guys I was talking about both want to have more children.

I'm sure this doesn't apply to ALL 45 year old men - in fact, I KNOW it doesn't apply to all of them.

So, in the case of SevenSnapespearesSwimming I'm 44, a fairly young 44, but 44 nonetheless, I am 'competing' against women in their early thirties for men the same age as me.

I would suggest that you aren't really ''competing'' as they are both looking to become fathers again and a lot of men would be doubtful about meeting a 44 year old who both wanted and was able to have another child. I know how difficult it can be, I am about the same age as the OP and we have been TTC our third DC for quite some time now.

Of course, there are MANY single men in their 40s that either don't want children or don't want any more children. However, to think that you are NOT competing against women in their mid 30s for men the same age as you is, I would suggest, somewhat naive. However, as was said above about men, also applies to women:-

There may be a lovely 45 year old out there, and dozens of 35 year old tossers.

Which is why, any man not looking to have another child would be stupid to overlook someone just because she was 44.

And this all comes back to the problems of OD and filtering by age etc

OldMinnieC - I don't believe they are being 'ageist'. Both of them want to have children again, I think that they both had only one DC from their first marriages. I would suggest that this does limit their choices to a certain extent.

However, I am only guessing as to the age of the women they are dating. I certainly having enquired - or seen an online profile - so I can only go by what I think. The real world can be quite different to OD.

In truth, my ''you wouldn't make the cut'' comment had nothing to do with her age. I was just considering the way she comes across here and comparing how she comes across with the sort of women that I've seen my DH's friends have relationships with.

I don't know how to put it, but they seemed to have a lot better ''social'' skills than the OP seems to portray. Although, of course, none of us have met her so this is all conjecture anyway.

And, just before you assume that they have all been ''simpering airheads'' at least one was a barrister and the others all seemed to have professional careers of one sort or another. Not exactly the sort of people known as ''simpering airheads''

Actually, I would suggest that they aren't being ''ageist'' but they are looking for the right person for them and that a lot of the women they are dating obviously think that they are the right guy for them.

Who knows, the perfect person for the OP may well have been some 43 year old guy that she saw on OD and simply ''next''ed because of his age.

I seriously believe that OD, with it's ability to filter by age, height, weight etc does a real disservice to both men and women.

In real life, unless someone looks obviously too old, young, fat, thin , tall, short etc then we don't take any notice of the actual numbers until later on.

having = haven't

nicky thank you for very full post, it's really helped me understand your perspective better. :). Feathers are unruffled.. My eggs are old and grey and tired and I have NO intention of having any more children. My three are more than enough to love. :-) in reality I am competing against women in their early/mid thirties with thir biological clocks ticking. :). That's cool. My niche would be men who already have families they adore, or who don't want to procreate, or who really like doctor who. . All is well.

I do get the 'filtering-by-age' thing, it's just annoying that the women-of-a-certain age I know look fab and look after themselves & the blokes are a bit done in (disclaimer: my experience, by no means universally true) so I take a bit of umbrage at women having to pitch at men ten years older. I would see a 30 year old man dating a 20 year old woman as control-issues. That might filter out a little as we all age, but it does very little for me.

ha, this is still going then.

The teeth thing was because i was told maybe i have bad teeth. I dont.

i dont have a broad accent, i dont really have one at all. I was daily, i dont smell. I am polite, but i do have a tiny mole on my chin, so perhaps this might put some men off, it is hideous. And if you believe that, you need a reality check :)

Im fine.

The sheer number of dates ive had are from actually not being picky. Anyone who has asked for a date, who hasnt shown any red flags, nor mentioned sex, and hasnt proven to be a knob after a few messages, has prompty been met for a coffee. If im honest, ive not fancied more than a handful. Ive been bored to tears by about half, and horrified by those left. But im not actually looking for perfection, and i dont recall saying i was. Ive been open minded.
Out of the ones ive fancied, only 2 or something have wanted to see me again. I dont know why the others havent, online dating is weird, people arent truthful, so i try not to let it get to me.
I think if i was more picky, then maybe my dates might be more sucessful.

the age thing, again, if i was chatting to someone and it turned out he was older and i liked him, it wouldnt be an issue. Generally speaking, i dont find older men attractive. Not sexually, i just dont. I cant help it. 8 or so years older than me is about my limit, but i wouldnt automatically discount someone just because of age. Unless they were 52 as i was contacted by yesterday.

You are doing fine. You are meeting plenty of men and it just hasn't turned into a relationship yet. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. But I doubt there is anything wrong with you.

Well OP there is your answer. You have skewed the stats against yourself by over-inclusiveness. Call me a romantic old fool (I'm 51) but I don't head out for a date unless I feel there is a 1 in 20 or better chance of her being The One and a 99% plus probability that I am not going to be "bored to tears" and I have never been wrong on the second point because you can't test for "spark" in preliminary email exchanges but you can sure as hell test for boringness. If you are being "bored to tears" by half the punters you meet you are not doing your homework. Simple as that.

That is quite true.

To be honest, its posts like some of these on here, thats led me to think i should give people a chance. So i have.

Some dates ive turned up to almost dreading, because i know its not going to work. Thats not good really, is it. But ive gone, because, well, you never know, do you. Lots i would have seen again, had they of asked, and lots i had a nice time with, but just didnt fancy.
Ive also had some awful ones, a memorable one being told ' theres no spark, i dont fancy you, but will shag you if you fancy it'

Some ive fancied, but in no way would have dated, red flags or them just not being in the right place to date.

Some ive fancied, but they just havent liked me.

So, despite some of the dubious advice on this thread, i actually do have an answer - be more picky, not less.

:)

yep, be more picky then. Have a phone call with them first, some say a skype call even. You've got to tread that line between knowing them enough to know they're going to be vaguely interesting on a date - plus not being married, so get a home number for them, and building up too much excitement and risking disappointment.

For the ones who you've been interested in but haven't been interested back, which is a small proportion, that's a different question.

Also, while we say safety is paramount, avoid beer goggles, don't take any risks, we're British - and sometimes we need alchohol as a lubricant to actually get us to be funny and open up. Maybe meet for two drinks, no more, first of all, instead of coffee, and your guard (and theirs) will come down.

But screen out the losers first, don't just accept the dates with any old bloke who asks, make sure that you're actually interested first. Having a pulse isn't enough, surely. You're really far too nice for that.

How do you view op's profile?

i think ive gone with a more scattergun approach. a meet quick for coffee, which does tend to be the advice for onine dating.....but maybe isnt always the best way.

the ones ive been interested in, but havent been interested back... yes. One i know had literally split up from his gf two weeks previously, and had just moved back in with his parents. So, not really up to dating, i guess i was just an ego stroke.

One, i have no idea on, we had a great date, he extended it after the activity, he text me the same night to say it was a shame it had to end and he would like to do it again. he text a general hi type message a week later, and then vanished into thin air.

One, i had two dates with, he was affectionate, reaching for my hand, squeezing my thigh.... we had a snog in the pub car park, and then he told me he was too busy to see me again.

One i faniced, but he told me he wasnt interested in relationships ( post shag) and was still hung up on his ex wife.

You know what, out of all of them, thats all i can remember that i liked. Not high, is it.

and if its noticebale, the two i had relationships with, i didnt fancy.
So - there goes half the posts telling me im too picky, and arrogant and up my arse.

They were people who i had a nice time on dates with, but i didnt fancy, but thought id give it a chance, to see what happened. It didnt work out well.

I do find it interesting that automatically it was assumed i was being too picky and needed to lower my standards, and was accused of having unrealistic expectations... when actually, the opposite it true.

Yep chicken - you're attractive, you're witty (albeit some of your wit may go over some peoples heads online)

People are going to jump in with advice like 'you need to make yourself more attractive' when you already are. Or 'you need to lower your standards' when what you need to do is make sure your standards are actually met.

As you know, the vanishers, the ego-strokers who just want to know if they can pull, the 'I-know-this-is-crazy-and-we've-just-met-but-marry-me' types - they all happen online, and in real life, but IRL we can sometimes get that unconscious voice telling us to walk away.

It's basically a numbers game. There are thousands of people online. A good proportion, now it's become more normal, aren't nutters. But some people aren't looking for a relationship, they just want a quickie, or an ego boost, or something to do on a Thursday night. Obviously you're attracting them, just screen them a bit more before an actual meeting with them, talk a bit more on the phone, and then just go meet them when you think maybe it could turn into something.

You need to be more picky and less picky all at the same time!

More picky in listening to your instincts- if you don't fancy them after 1 date then move on.

More picky in actually thinking about what they say about themselves- someone 2 weeks out of a relationship for instance is not going to be what you want I fear.

Less picky in terms of age. If you extend your age range to 10 years at least above your age.

I'd bet my last pound that more educated men are less likely to be boring and if that means they are 10 years older- so what?

Your attitude is very ageist. I'm a lot older than you and find some of your assumptions or even observations about older men ( and women too?) quite insulting. It's not their ages which make them boring- they were probably like that at 30!

I'd say with OD that a 1:10 success rate ie finding someone you fancy and like, is pretty good going- and if they have to fancy you and like you back that makes it 1:20. So what you have achieved so far fits with that. You can either carry on throwing mud, or trying harder to weed out. But you do come over as perhaps trying too hard , and meeting men who you pretty much know already are not your type.

to be fair, i didnt know he had just split up with someone before i met him, else i wouldnt have gone on the date.
And even if he had asked me out again, i wouldnt have gone, because i would think he needed some time to ajust first.

Ive dated lots of educated men, by far the worse was some middle managament man who wore a suit everyday. He was as middle class as they come and treated me appallingly. He was also older.

Ive got lots of women friends who are older, i have nothing againist older people, im not agesit at all. Im just not sexually attracted to people who are 10 years older than me. I cant help that. Id be lying to myself if i did.

im perplexed about the trying to hard comment. First i wasnt trying hard enough, then i was arrogant, and now im trying too hard. In what way am i trying too hard? by trying to keep an open mind? before i had said that i was being too picky and now ive said ive kept an open mind, im trying too hard

So to summarise, OP, what you need to do is:
Try harder
Stop trying so hard
Stop being so arrogant and full of yourself
Stop being ageist
Be less picky
Be more picky
Widen the field
Narrow the field
Get Tangoed
Improve your poor eyelash quality
Get your teeth whitened but don't mention them
Stop going on about your job
Lose weight
Change your first pictures
Change your attitude
Change the people you fancy.

It's quite simple. Good luck.

From what you have said then, you aren't really going wrong anywhere in terms of being rejected by people because it is only a couple who you have been interested in who haven't taken it further and one was on a very recent re-bound and the other disappeared as people often do with OD, could have been attached already, or met someone earlier etc..

It is perhaps possible that you are writing off one or two good ones early who could grow on you? You say that you have been in abusive relationships before and are determined not to go down that path again, which is good to hear. However, you say you only fancy confident, passionate people? Sometimes confidence and passion grow if you are together with someone who feels comfortable enough in their relationship to expose that side of themselves. Sometimes confidence and passion on the outside from day 1 are actually signs of someone who is not so caring and empathic, someone putting on a show. You know I'm sure that all the advice to someone with a pattern of abusive relationships is to give a little time for a relationship to grow that feels someone dead at the start and to try to learn to not need so much chemistry at the start.

It could be that this is still part of your journey to finding someone who is really worthwhile? It is interesting that out of all the dates, the one you saw the longest is someone who was not treating you with good respect (the "cocklodger") - I don't mean this in any critical way, but perhaps you are not quite there yet in terms of really picking out someone who has a lot more to them on the inside?

Having said all that I am quite aware that one meets lots of people OD where there is zero chemistry, you need some at least...

not "someone dead", "somewhat dead" :-)

Do not feel someone dead at the start!

Eurostar I've just laughed like a drain at that.

Perhaps the OP should be more inclusive of zombies. Some of them could be very nice chaps for all she knows.

I came into this thread because I'm thinking of trying OD. It seems to me that it's no guarantee of anything but the process might be interesting and even fun. I know a woman of about 57 who is having a high old time on Guardian Soulmates. I think if you aren't enjoying the process, it's probably time to quit

Blunt as this may sound, OP, I don't know what the hell you are complaining about. I know some very attractive, intelligent, interesting, funny women in their 30s who have been online dating on and off four four years and got no more than 12 dates in all that time. I tried online dating for 18 months and only met 2 women! If it is true that dating is a numbers game, I would say you are doing very well, quite honestly, in having as many dates as you have had. Yes, a great pity none have led to anything lasting but again, if it is a numbers game, surely the more you meet the better the chance one of them will be someone long term.

But there are probably hundreds if not thousands of women (and men) who would KILL to have had as many dates as you have had. Don't dwell on the negative that it has led to nothing but be positive that so many people want to meet you in the first place.

eurostar - the cock lodging incident came about because i dated someone different and thought id give it time to grow.
there wasnt anything wrong with him, i just didnt really fancy him. And then he started taking the piss a few months in, so i dumped him.

What i have learnt from that is, actually, i dont need to give people time to grow on me.
If i dont fancy them, then idont fancy them.

cheers oldminniec, for that list. I shall print it off, stick it on the fridge and refer to it everyday :)

Voice of unreason - nope, i dont think they do want to meet 'me', in most cases, they just want to meet a ' woman'. Im the fool whos been open minded enough to give them a try :)

Interesting thread and some excellent advice, although it did dip a couple of pages back into:
Single men in their 30s are single as they're losers, while single women in their 30s are single because single men are losers. Go figure.

To the op- online may be a red herring as this has been goin on for 5 years. If you're really being open and warm and attractive you'll eventually get what you want. If not, Einstein had something to say about doing the same things and expecting different results.

As someone in a similar(ish) position I wish you all the best.