Dating - where am i going wrong and do i just resign myself to being alone.

[notsuchaspringchicken]

Having just spent my 5th christmas on my own, being on my own forever seems more and more likely.

Im 34. Im divorced and have one child. I work, if part time. I have interests and hobbies and am not unattractive, if on the curvey side.

I go out, though its more meals and activities than clubbing, which i hate. I have not had one sniff of interest from any man in the 5 years ive been single.

Ive done online dating for years and never got anywhere with that either.
Having had a break from it i signed up to several sites yesterday, and ive had no messages, not even from the free sites where its known for being a bit of a meat market, where a while back i was beating them off with a stick. Any views i have had have been from men over 40 who look like there are actually closer to 50. Its depressing.

I dont understand where im going wrong and how come i seem to be so unattractive to men. A new girl started at work, shes not pretty, but is thin. And is just 20. Within 2 days she had been asked out by 4 men. I dont get if its my age, or the fact im a size 16, or am a lone parent? or just not what men want????

A few random thoughts for you:

First, it's likely you just haven't met anyone because...well, these things take time. Can't hurry love & all that.

Having said that, you don't come across as arrogant but you donseem quite...transactional...on here. There's something very cold about the way you post. Maybe men can sense that? For example, it's quite unusual to point to your job as "evidence" of your bubbly personality. Um, no - that's a job. You haven't referred to any of your interests, philosophies of life etc - just banged on about how you are successful at work. And, no offence, if you are living in a small town you are unlikely to be a superstar career woman in the exceptional terms you're talking about. Perhaps work on thins that drive you outside of your job? People tend not to find people who bang on about work all the time v interesting.

Secondly, the comment where you describes the men at an event you went to as "40 year old divorcees". Um, hello? Reality check: you are a 34 year old DIVORCEE. So if everyone applies the same principles as you, yes, you will be single forever. There is having standards (good) and then there's dismissing entire tracts of eligible men out of hand - which is stupid and hypocritical in my view.

Just my 2 cents.

Sorry for all the typos - on phone

Ive not gone on about my job. Its far from great, its not a career job at all. The point i made, and in response to being told i cant be friendly, approachable etc. Was that i got my current job because i am those things i went through physchometric testing, then masses of group aasessments and was picked for being, naturally this way.
So- bollocks to that :)

I do limit on age. 30 to 41 ish really i would struggle to find a man of 45 attractive but thats 11years older than me

Thanks to those that havent roasted me.

To add to my previous post, I was wondering if your independence and security may be read by the opposite sex as detachment, not willing to commit, take-it-or-leave it attitude. If it is, this isnt very attractive - in men or women. It doesn't hurt to let someone know you want to be in a relationship and need contact and support (without being needy of course). Very few of us are genuinely happy living as an island after all. If you met a man like you, how would describe him? Would you date him?

I agree, 11 years older is probably too old. I'm 38 and tend to find 28 year olds just don't think about the world the same way as me. And if I'd thought about the world ten years ago the same way I do now I would've been a boring young fart. I tend to limit my searches to 29 to 41 year olds, with or without children - that range works for me.

But to get back to my question chicken - you said you've had about 60 online dates, and two of those turned into something more - one you dumped for cocklodging, the other turned out to be wet. All the other 58 had red flags of some sort. What kind of red flags were you seeing? I'll admit that there are going to be a lot of men (and women) out there with issues, but that's a ridiculously high number. And this is after weeding out the dross? What do you generally do to go from the first online contact to meeting them, and how do you filter them out?

I agree with you, you shouldn't have to change your appearance to please some ideal - the blokes who need women with big eyelashes and a fake tan are likely to not be your sort anyway, so leave those for the women on here who are telling you to change yourself. Your posts do come across as defensive, but then you're being told off for being choosy, which is just rubbish.

What is it that puts you off those 58 men you did meet, what made you screen out the others beforehand, and what made the wet man wet?

It's obviously not that you're unattractive, you're getting dates. I'd be depressed if so many of my dates turned out so badly. The question you should be asking here, I think, is why is your screening process letting through so many losers and possibly filtering out some who may actually be good for you?

I'm on the dating thread where the details of my OD are laid out. I have good radar for weeding out the flag wavers, still I go and meet some potentials who I otherwise have doubts about because my potential online dating pool is very, very small.

The advice I get in RL is why would I bother and on the thread people are kinder but I have never, ever had someone suggest I give any of them a go as maybe they will turn out better than I think. The evidence is there that I have indeed met a lot of tossers as well as some lovely men with whom I could never, ever imagine getting naked.

I am not photogenic but I am attractive, I love my body as it is, I'm smart can be witty and apparently good company in RL. I have looked at how I behave on dates, looked at my filtering and constantly retune. I often ask for a reality check on my views/decisions/actions on the dating thread. I have softened my approach and am mistress of giving the benefit of the doubt. So I am giving it a fair go.

What I am not prepared to do is turn myself into someone else or accept for traits in a man I find abhorrent (bigotry, racism, disliking women, the standard red flags for abuse). I'm up to about 35 dates now. If this is picky then good for me.

I think you are making some mistakes.

here goes:

Psychometric testing does not tell you how you will behave in a 1:1 dating situation. If you think that " doing well" on those tests proves something then you are wrong.

If you have dated 60 men (I've not had that number in my entire life) then something is amiss. Either you are not setting your radar correctly and weeding them out beforehand, ( lots of phone chats maybe and then a coffee?) or you have totally unrealistic expectations of what is out there.

It might be that after being in an abusive relationship you have gone too far the other way and are expecting a man to be perfect rather than human.

Re. ages- I think you have a closed mind-set. There is no " cut off point" after which a man will not be suitable. You are stereotyping TBH. There may be a lovely 45 year old man out there, and dozens of 35 year old tossers.

If the men are dumping you after 1 date then you do need to look at your behaviour whether you think ti's okay or not. This does NOT mean you change your personality or cover yourself in fake tan- but that you improve ( perhaps) your social skills.

I'd just repeat what I said before- that if you start making your life more intersting and stop just looking for men to date, one will come along soon enough.

Having shared interests is a far better way to meet people - in a non-dating situation- than trawling the web.

BTW- DID you post about this a while back?

Sorry, but passing psychometric tests for work =/= a great personality. What an odd concept.

And I am not roasting you, I'm trying to point out inconsistencies in your approach. You just slagged off an event as being full of "40 year old divorcees" - that's men who are only 6 years older than you, and with probably less complicated personal situations than your own.

I'm not sure why you started the thread in this way given you apparently think you're doing everything perfectly. If you just wanted people to give you hugz and tell you that you're luvly you should have phrased it that way.

I am wondering if you have a very broad accent or loud laugh that puts people off. They aren't the sort of things your friends can tell you.

I have one friend of 33 who is having no luck with men and I don't think her broad accent helps, but she is proud of it and I wouldn't dream of saying anything.

::Gives OP hugz.::

OP, you're luvly.

Some of your comments earlier on make you seem rather shallow- I'm talking about the one where you said you had nic white, straight teeth. Errr. yes? That's nice for you. persoanl hygiene and clean teeth are important- but you aren't going to find love on the basis of having white teeth

Are you actually nice to your dates? Do you take any interest in them? it's one thing being thought of as " fun" at work- but are you are nice, caring person? Do you have good conversational skills? Are you interesting company? Do you make the men you date feel appreciated and do you draw them out and make them feel comfortable with you?

This is all much more important than looking good- and the other thing is- have they seen a photo of you- full length? A size 16 is a bit on the chubby side and you may be not to their taste if they have not seen a recent picture- sorry if that is harsh.

I think you need to tell us more about why the dates don't go anywhere and what is putting you off- and being open to what may put them off.

So mentioning that you have nice teeth is shallow and there's more to it than looking good, but a size 16 is 'a bit chubby' and may put men off? I see.

With respect, Tulip & BoPeep, the OP isn't saying she has a 'fantastic personality' due to psychometric testing, she's saying it showed she had an approachable and friendly personality. She's using that as a way of demonstrating that she's not rude and dismissive generally, and probably not that way on dates.

Also, she said that an event (Salsa?) was full of '40 year old divorcees' - now the way it was written was ambiguous - she actually said 'old men and 40 year old divorcees' - which could imply the 40 year olds were women. I don't know, but if that's the case then she's not ruling them out; and as she says her age range for online dating goes up to 41, 7 years older than her which is a reasonable enough age gap. Maybe she could be a bit more flexible on that, but it's not like she's saying 'no older than 36'

I think she's asking a perfectly valid question - if she's been on 50 or 60 dates, only two of which have turned into more, then where is she going wrong?

Personally, I've been on 10 or so first dates in 5 months, 5 of which turned into second dates, one of which turned into a somewhat short lived 'relationship'.

I don't know whether the men are 'dumping' her after one date - it seems to me that she's the one being picky as they aren't up to her standards. Juliette is in a similar situation - she screens out a lot of the obvious ones, but when she meets in person, a lot of them fall at the first post. She has standards and isn't willing to change to become something she's not simply to have a man she wouldn't be happy with. It sounds like SpringChicken is the same, and good for both of them.

The problem is, as BoPeep pointed out, is the OP looking for perfection and unwilling to settle for anything less, or is her screening process flawed so she meets people who she thinks sound right but in person are obviously not. If it's the first, she needs to lower her standards to accept that people have flaws/baggage etc. If it's the second, she needs to re-examine how she's choosing people to meet.

All the advice to get out there and meet people in real life is great, of course, and it's still the most successful way to start a new relationship - something like 40% of new relationships start with friends of friends or activity partners. Online dating, though, is 35%. Meeting through work is something like 15% or less as we're all terrified of sex discrimination lawsuits.

Having said that, juggling children, a job, finances etc leaves much less time and energy for meeting people in the real world. Online is just much more convenient, you can pretty much do it while you're ironing.

I think OP mentioned having nice teeth as a reaction to the suggestion that she (paraphrases)makes the 'best' or herself by getting a fake tan, eyelash extensions etc.

A divorcee is a woman, so no wonder she doesn't want to go dancing with a bunch of other women and a few old men.

OP, I think you're not careful enough in who you talk to. If you go onto POF then yes, that's how a lot will talk to you. If you go on Guardian Soulmates they don't tend to.

What are the profiles like for these men? If someone has clearly spent a while on their profile, it's less likely they're going to ask you really personal questions and not even ask for your name. Are their profiles well written? Do they talk about their job? Do they mention children? Do they look like normal people, the sort who wouldn't ask you about your pubic hair before even meeting you?

Where do you meet them? Is there any suggestion of sex beforehand? Any joke about it, any reference to it at all?

When you meet them, have you spoken to them on the phone beforehand? Have you had a long conversation? Do you believe when you set out on that date that you're going to have a good night? Do you think the bloke is looking forward to the night out?

You are going on far too many dates. 90% of those men wouldn't be worth going out with.

You say most of the men don't want to see you again. At what point in the night is that obvious? Do they meet your eyes, laugh when appropriate, treat you well? Is your first inkling that it's not going to work out when they don't call you?

I feel for you - it's a real minefield out there. Men who you wouldn't sit next to on a bus are being approached by literally hundreds of women. They can't believe their luck.

Leaving online dating aside for a minute, have you thought of joining a running club? There are always a lot of men there and surely to Christ some of them must be single! Could you set yourself a goal of running a marathon in a year's time, something like that? (Or pretend you have!)

OP, originally you said you wouldn't look above 38, I notice that it's now creeping up to 41. But you also said:- i would struggle to find a man of 45 attractive

I would suggest that, in real life, it is relatively easy to come across some 45 year olds that you would find attractive. It's just that you wouldn't know they were 45 and so you wouldn't already have mentally written them off.

This is a real problem with OD and being able to filter by age, height, weight etc.

When you see an age on someone's profile a lot of people, I am sure, make assumptions about what they will be like. However, if they met in real life, that person wouldn't be carrying a sign with them giving all their vital statistics. So, you wouldn't be looking at them as a 40 year old graduate blah blah blah, but you would just see someone that you liked the look of.

It would then only be quite a bit later that you might find out that he is actually 45 say, because you don't generally go round asking someone's age on a date, certainly not a first date - well, at least I never used to.

And if you stayed round long enough to start asking him questions like how old he is then I'm guessing you will have been on a few dates with him by that stage and find him at least a little bit attractive.

Also, don't forget that a lot of men using OD will be doing the same as you. So, I'm sure a lot of 35-40 year old men will be only looking for women under 30. How fair is that? Just as fair as your attitude to men over 40.

MissBoPeep Re. ages- I think you have a closed mind-set. There is no " cut off point" after which a man will not be suitable. You are stereotyping TBH. There may be a lovely 45 year old man out there, and dozens of 35 year old tossers.

Just following up to this point by Missbopeep, as I mentioned in my previous post I could introduce you to a couple of really nice guys who are 45 - although you'd never know they were that old - good jobs, great fun to be with, divorced a few years ago get on ok with their ex's, quite good looking - although not a patch on my DH , had a bit of ''fun'' since being divorced and now looking to get married again

However, to be quite frank, I don't think that you'd make the cut. They seem to be very much in demand with quite a lot of women who appear to be in their early 30s - although I haven't asked them their ages.

A friend of mine is going through this whole OD process and I have heard all the horror stories so I can perhaps understand some of your feelings about the type of men that you're meeting. But, how can I put it, a lot of the really good ones, both men and women, seem to get snapped up quite quickly.

As someone else said above, the ''perfect'' men that everyone wants are also looking for the ''perfect'' woman and, unless that's you, I would suggest that it's unlikely you're ever going to find the ''perfect'' man.

By all means, maintain your standards - I'd certainly never compromise on my own standards - but do be prepared to accept that you might have to wait a very long time to meet someone who matches your expectations and also that you meet their expectations as well.

You don't say whether you decided not to progress with these 60 men or they decided not to take things further or if it was a mixture. If it is you that is deciding not to progress things with these guys then you perhaps need to think about why you are not attracting the type of men that do meet your standards.

OP, originally you said you wouldn't look above 38, I notice that it's now creeping up to 41. But you also said:- i would struggle to find a man of 45 attractive

I would suggest that, in real life, it is relatively easy to come across some 45 year olds that you would find attractive. It's just that you wouldn't know they were 45 and so you wouldn't already have mentally written them off.

This is a real problem with OD and being able to filter by age, height, weight etc.

When you see an age on someone's profile a lot of people, I am sure, make assumptions about what they will be like. However, if they met in real life, that person wouldn't be carrying a sign with them giving all their vital statistics. So, you wouldn't be looking at them as a 40 year old graduate blah blah blah, but you would just see someone that you liked the look of.

It would then only be quite a bit later that you might find out that he is actually 45 say, because you don't generally go round asking someone's age on a date, certainly not a first date - well, at least I never used to.

And if you stayed round long enough to start asking him questions like how old he is then I'm guessing you will have been on a few dates with him by that stage and find him at least a little bit attractive.

Also, don't forget that a lot of men using OD will be doing the same as you. So, I'm sure a lot of 35-40 year old men will be only looking for women under 30. How fair is that? Just as fair as your attitude to men over 40.

MissBoPeep Re. ages- I think you have a closed mind-set. There is no " cut off point" after which a man will not be suitable. You are stereotyping TBH. There may be a lovely 45 year old man out there, and dozens of 35 year old tossers.

Just following up to this point by Missbopeep, as I mentioned in my previous post I could introduce you to a couple of really nice guys who are 45 - although you'd never know they were that old - good jobs, great fun to be with, divorced a few years ago get on ok with their ex's, quite good looking - although not a patch on my DH , had a bit of ''fun'' since being divorced and now looking to get married again

However, to be quite frank, I don't think that you'd make the cut. They seem to be very much in demand with quite a lot of women who appear to be in their early 30s - although I haven't asked them their ages.

A friend of mine is going through this whole OD process and I have heard all the horror stories so I can perhaps understand some of your feelings about the type of men that you're meeting. But, how can I put it, a lot of the really good ones, both men and women, seem to get snapped up quite quickly.

As someone else said above, the ''perfect'' men that everyone wants are also looking for the ''perfect'' woman and, unless that's you, I would suggest that it's unlikely you're ever going to find the ''perfect'' man.

By all means, maintain your standards - I'd certainly never compromise on my own standards - but do be prepared to accept that you might have to wait a very long time to meet someone who matches your expectations and also that you meet their expectations as well.

You don't say whether you decided not to progress with these 60 men or they decided not to take things further or if it was a mixture. If it is you that is deciding not to progress things with these guys then you perhaps need to think about why you are not attracting the type of men that do meet your standards.

Minnie I knew someone would get the wrong end of the stick.

I am not contradicting myself.

I asked the OP if the men had seen a full length photo of her before they met up. IMO- and some men's- a size 16 is large. Some men love something to get hold of- others don't. If they know her size beforehand then that's fine. This is not to say that looks are the be all and end all- they aren't, but I was asking if men had seen a photo.

The Op posted she had nice teeth in a way that made it sound as if this was the passport to a relationship- regardless of her personality, behaviour and TBH her weight.

I hate this focus on the OP's weight. Nobody has asked whether those 60 men had good figures.

And the OP mentioned her teeth PURELY because someone recommended she should get them whitened.

nickymanchester that is the single most depressing post I have read on MN. I'm 44, a fairly young 44, but 44 nonetheless, I am 'competing' against women in their early thirties for men the same age as me. I should technically be pitching at men in their late fifties/early sixties.

Stuff that. Seriously. It may well be ageist, they might be lovely, but they are on the verge of retirement. Ugh.

Come now Snapes dont ya see yerself sittin on a Sugar Daddy's knee????

You can't put it all down to size though, or personality, or whatever.

I posted earlier in the thread about a friend of mine, who is a lot larger than the OP, and has with one exception never failed to get beyond a first date.

I also have colleagues who have met people through OD. They are of average build and attractiveness, there's nothing outstanding about their personalities, if anything they're a bit reserved/quiet (I know them socially as well, so its not just a work persona I've seen).

If it was all a matter of being thin, or very pretty, or wearing make up, or having a sparkling personality, or being highly intelligent, none of them would be in relationships. And a lot of the single people I know wouldn't be single. It really does seem to be luck, pure and simple. It all comes down to meeting the right person, and with the thousands there are online, the chances of doing so are tiny.

The age thing, I understand where the OP is coming from with her age limits. I'm 40 and I'd be reluctant to date anyone over 45. I have been on dates with men that age, and if anything had worse experiences than with men 10 years younger than me. It's not just a question of how someone looks, and no I probably wouldn't have guessed they were mid-40s if I'd got chatting to them in a pub. But I would have thought (as I did during dates) they were awfully middle aged/narrow minded in outlook and attitude, and that I couldn't see anything long term coming out of it.

I don't think age should come into this at all. Not if one has a choice.

My 2 longest relationships before DH were with men who were 14 and 8 years older than me. DH is actually pretty much one of the youngest men I've been with ( he's same age as I am.)

As Nicky says when you meet someone not through OD you often don't know their age anyway- it's how you get on that counts.

I'd look at why the dates you are getting aren't going anywhere.

Nickymanchester, so it's ok for you eligible male friends to be ageist, in that the OP wouldn't 'make the cut' because they have younger women to choose from, but the OP is getting a bit above herself by having an age range with which she's comfortable?

That seems like just another way of telling the OP to get back in her box and stop thinking so highly of herself. Or have I misunderstood?

Yes ike I'm going to date the single-fathers of half the contributors to this thread and get them to adopt my children, substantially reducing their inheritance.