Possible BPD husband

[gladiolus]

I've posted a few times about our problems. Long story short, I left him six months ago because I could no longer live with him, he begged me to at least continue our relationship in different houses if he promised to get help for his anger issues. I agreed and since then we have been together but living apart. He did see his GP and is waiting for an appointment with the mental health team.

Anyway, yesterday we were talking about the issue of women-on-men abuse in soaps. He started looking something up on my iPad and he must have found something which caught his interest as, after about half an hour of thoughtful surfing he asked me if I had ever heard of Borderline Personality Disorder. I said I had and asked him why.

"Because I think I might have it," he said.

Cue several hours of looking into it and half a dozen online tests which all seemed to point the the strong possibility that he might have moderate to severe BPD. A lot of the websites we found contained 'typical' descriptions of the way people with BPD act, think, behave etc and they are him to a tee, especially the whole Mr Nice/Mr Nasty thing, which his ex-wife told him as well.

One of the tests gave results for ALL personality disorders and he scored highly on Borderline/Antisocial/Histrionic, but very low on Narcissistic (which was a relief) and the others.

So now he's a bit scared about this and what it might mean. Personally I'm relieved as I had suspected he might suffer from some kind of personality disorder a while ago but I didn't like to present him with that thought as he would probably deny it extremely vocally. So for him to come to this by himself is very interesting and encouraging.

So, what do we do now? Obviously he needs to bring this up with the mental healthy person he eventually sees in the hopes of getting a firm diagnosis, but how can I help him? How can I support him? It doesn't help that I have suspected Asperger's and am awaiting my own diagnosis so, in his words, "We are both nutjobs."

Despite my last thread, I am not prepared to give up on my marriage, even though we currently cannot live together, but I want to help him with this. I want the nice husband back.

As far as actions go, we are waiting for the mental health team to get an appointment sorted. And he's been a lot better since we moved out.

And surely the very fact that he is considering that HE might have an issue rather than blaming it all on me as he has previously done, has to be a start!

It's easy to say LTB but if there is a chance that he is genuinely asking for help here, I have to give it to him.

I have looked a lot at the Narcissistic threads on here, but he never struck me as that, and he did score very low on the test that scored on ALL the personality disorders, so that relieved my mind somewhat.

It's more like, he over-reacts at small provocation and has no filter between mind and mouth (his own admission) so that's something we can work on, helping him to not say the hurtful things that pop into his mind.

I don't know, that's why I'm here.

BPD is treatable - lots of evidence showing this now.

BPD is characterised by self harm and suicidal intent and risk taking - it is one of the most defining characteristics - does your husband do this?

BPD is not the reason people are abusive.

"Can you help him? I dunno. Are you a qualified psychiatrist who specialises in personality disorders? "

No, I'm not. I shall rephrase.

Is there anything that I can do, as his wife, to help him, in addition to the help he will hopefully eventually receive from a qualified psychiatrist who specialises in personality disorders?

"BPD is characterised by self harm and suicidal intent and risk taking - it is one of the most defining characteristics - does your husband do this? "

Risk taking, yes.

Self harm and suicidal intent, not any more, although he has in the past. One of the questions was "Do you or HAVE YOU EVER self-harmed" (I'm paraphrasing) and he had to answer yes as he did used to when he was younger.

Also I remember one time he told me when his first wife finally told him she didn't want to get back together, he was in his car and his first thought was to drive into a motorway bridge. I don't know if he had suicidal thoughts when I left him, he hasn't told me.

However, there are other indicators, which he does show very strong signs of.

listen to AF, she is completely talking sense.

It is great to hopefully get a diagnosis and the appropriate help, but really what does it change between you and him?

Just wanted to say - I have BPD. If you've got any questions to try and work out what is going on, or want some suggestions of where to go from here (therapy / books etc) then please feel free to PM me or post back on here. Equally if your DH wants someone to talk to who understands, then I can point you in the direction of some support groups.

BPD / EID is a self destructive condition, in every part of your life. You isolate yourself, often without even realizing that is what you are doing. You spend a large portion of time feeling numb, and take drastic action in the middle of emotional storms in an attempt to feel something.

BPD is treatable, not curable, but manageable. There are some brilliant therapy options available now. And a large percentage of sufferers several years down the line no longer match the diagnostic criteria.

Hugs to you both right now. If I can be of any help, please let me know. I've very far from okay, but am making progress, and am very open about my condition.

Boobs.

Can we just get something right........has your DH a professional diagnosis for BPD or is this a googled self diagnosis?

I think with personality disorders, self awareness very helpful as with this, he might be able to see why his behaviour is upsetting for you.

I would help him by encouraging him to buy lots of books on the subject and post on support boards so that he can increase his self awareness of his condition.

As others have said actions are important, can he become self aware enough to change his?

Can I also just add... It is typical BPD to be most cruel to those that you love the most. Its because underneath you are convinced they are going to leave you, so you are punishing them in advance for that. Its really hard to explain. But turbulent relationships / problems in relationships are one of the key things used to identify BPD.

There is a book about BPD called "I Hate You: Don't Leave Me", and that sums it up rather smoothly, really.

"Can we just get something right........has your DH a professional diagnosis for BPD or is this a googled self diagnosis?"

Do you want to actually read what I've put? I think I've been very clear. There is no need for any confusion.

SantaFlashesHisBoobsALot - thank you - if you have any suggestions as to what we can do next while we're waiting for the mental health team to get in touch I'd be grateful.

"Question is, what do we do about it now. CAN I help him? CAN he change?"

There is no WE. There is ONLY HE.

So if you give him ALL the help possible, read all the books, run yourself ragged, bend over backwards and he doesn't change... Will that be YOUR fault? Will YOU have failed? You'll be told you did.

He is the only one who can change. He could change today, if he wants to. BPD is often a case of mind over matter. It's hard going, but the sufferer can fight and overcome the symptoms.

If he is cruel to you, to your DC, then it's unhealthy and wrong to be with him. He needs to know that there is no plan B. You're separated now, due to his treatment of you. It doesn't matter if there is an excuse/reason, it's harmful to you and your family. Be very clear and unrelenting on this.

His behaviour next is what will show you if he's acting/reeling you in again. Back off and see what happens.

"surely the very fact that he is considering that HE might have an issue rather than blaming it all on me as he has previously done, has to be a start!"

It's a start but that's all it is. 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions'. Acknowledging a deeply ingrained personal problem, whether it's a psychiatric disorder or something like alcohol addiction is progress. Seeking help is progress. However, those closely involved can continue to suffer horribly while that person gets help and, since there is no easy 'cure', that suffering can continue for years to come.

You've felt compelled to separate and I think that has forced him, in turn, to look at himself for once.... it's a motivation, if you like. You have to be careful now that your willingness to help and your love is not interpreted by him as everything's cushty, back to normal, and he can ease up.

"He could change today, if he wants to. BPD is often a case of mind over matter." Oh yes, I just stay the way I am because I can't be arsed to fight it Would you say that about any other mental health diagnosis? Anorexics could change if they wanted to, its not that hard to eat. Depressives could feel better if they just put the effort it. Doubt it.

OP I will warn you that it took me a while to go from suspected to confirmed with my diagnosis, though I do think that was partially my age as they are reluctant to diagnose under 18s.

This is the diagnostic criteria.

A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

1. frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.

2. a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.

3. identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.

4. impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.

5. recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior

6. affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).

7. chronic feelings of emptiness

8. inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

9. transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms

BPD is also known as Emotional Intensity Disorder. EID tends to be the name preferred by those that are suffering, but I use BPD when talking on here etc simply because more people have heard of that. EID does explain it a bit better however, as the moods are extreme, and tend to only last a few hours maximum, though the underlying feeling can last longer.

Books wise, I'd recommend this one firstly, and this one also. Obviously wait to speak to a doctor first if you wish, but they are two of best around IMO, both for people struggling, and for their families. I'm happy to post you my copies to borrow to save you buying them if you want to have a read through whilst you wait for the mental health team.

Boobs, don't get me wrong, I know BPD sufferers that manage their condition, take responsibility for it and are loving, caring parents/partners.

Also I know of others that refuse to acknowledge their health and terrorise all those around them, crippling partners and children because they can.

The point I was suggesting is that this is down to the individual, no-one can do it for him. Given his behaviour to date, I wonder if this is a smoke screen. It wouldn't be the first time.

From knowing those that have been exposed to Head in the Sand/ BPD refusniks, the effects on them is identical to victims of DV. Untreated it is a hideous condition to live with.

I'm sure BPD is hellish for the sufferer, but there is no excuse for anyone to put up with damaging and traumatising behaviour, so unless the person acknowedges they need help, that they have to put serious effort into managing themselves and the condition, and achieves it, it's generally better for those affected by the behaviour to protect themselves first and foremost.

As I said, what OP's H does next is what will inform her path from here.

When it comes to support, I will say a few things:

• Support should not be done at the expense of your own mental health. If you find yourself severely distressed, worried and anxious as a result of providing support to your husband, you need to back off and see if you're damaging yourself while trying to help him. Don't wear yourself out.

• Even though your husband may have a mental illness, he still needs to take on responsibility for making appointments, taking medication (if he does start to do this) and generally look after himself. It sounds like he's capable of doing these things. It's very important that you not take on this role of trying to manage his mental health for him because it's important for him to do things on his own initiative and for you to not burden yourself too much.

• You can't make him better through sheer force of will. It is up to HIM to work on himself. So if he's going to a counselling appointment, it's good to support that, but if he decides he isn't going anymore, it's not fair on you to spend hours negotiating and getting upset and trying to persuade him to go. He needs to be the proactive one here.

• Take care of yourself first and foremost. Have boundaries. Set limits on what you will do and what you will take, for your own sake.

I found myself interested in the online tests you've mentioned. I googled some, although of course I don't know whether the ones I looked at are the same as the ones you saw.

The ones I looked at were here: psychcentral.com/quizzes.htm

What I would say is that they are incredibly easy to manipulate, should you want to - it's completely obvious what to answer to score high or low, whatever you want to achieve.

Well, I don't know exactly what tests he took, although he showed me a few, but I know he was very surprised at the result of the first one, which indicated he had severe BPD. I really don't think he manipulated the responses. He did go back into that one afterwards and change a couple of answers he said he hadn't been 100% sure about which lowered the score a touch, but it still came back as pretty high. He then went on to take some others to see if they agreed and they all did. Without exception.

He was actually very worried and quite scared by this. I don't he's got these results deliberately; he hadn't even heard of the condition before he stumbled across it himself. I am aware that online tests are not definitive, and that this is just an indicator and he has to get professionally diagnosed; we're not daft :) But that doesn't mean it should be dismissed and rolly-eyes emotions deployed. Give us time, we've only just found out that this a possibility.

Some of the answers he showed me surprised me as he hadn't shown any outward indications of feeling that way, but he said he does, quite often.

At the moment he's probably just processing the whole thing and maybe learning more about it. Also we have to wait for the NHS to pull their collective finger out.

I don't want to go in like the proverbial bull and start railing and nagging him about what he's going to do about it now! I'm just going to wait and see and do my own reading.

OP, does your husband treat his boss, his friends, his acquaintances like "Mr Nasty"

or just you ?

I was thinking the same thing...,

Those suffering with BPD have particular problems with close relationships; the closer the relationship, the more overwhelming the fear of rejection. Superficial relationships (eg at work) tend not to be so significantly affected because there's not the same fear - or, at least, the stakes aren't nearly so high.

When I studied PDs at University, we took a straw poll of each one and who in the room thought they had one after reading about them. Our lecturer asked, "who thinks they have BPD?" and so on. Lots of people put their hands up for each PD. She said that this is indicative of two things, the danger of self-diagnosis and it's uselessness. She said that the people who were worried about PDs probably didn't have them and the people who didn't have their hands up were much more likely to have one.

There is no point talking about how to cope with a PD when you don't know if he has one or not. He could just be an arsehole who wants a label to excuse his behaviour. He needs to see a professional.

My dh has manic depression (bi-polar disorder) and thought this is not the same, many of the features are. It is hard going to be married to someone with such issues- just as it is hard for him to be married to an anxiety-ridden recovering anorexic. All MH issues are hard. They do not, however, make you a "nutjob" which you should absolutely point out to him as it is downright offensive my AS 5 year old is not a fucking nutter ta v much to both himself, you, and every other person with MH issues out there. I suggest he gets himself to a GP for a chat, however he may find that they will not necessarily put much stock in internet quizzes and are likely to either refer him to MH team for assessment (which for such a disorder may happen as an inpatient) or just tell him to come back in a few weeks if he feels the same or simply put him on antid's. And if you need any support with how to cope with a partner with significant MH issues, please pm me and i will gladly be there :)

Hi KFC - obviously the nutjob comment was meant to be a joke, between us, and I was not offended. I apologise if my repetition of that private joke offended you.

He has already been to his GP for a chat and has been referred to the MH team. We are awaiting the said MH team to get back to him regarding a further appointment, at which time he will be bringing up the possible BPD. I feel certain that he will have a professional person subject him to the appropriate assessments before coming to any firm conclusion.

Thank you for the offer of help.

As an aside, does anyone else feel that typing out a comment deliberately then scoring through it so it is still readable is quite passive aggressive. Or is it just me?

If you want to say it, say it. If you don't think it's advisable, then don't. But the whole scoring through thing is annoying.

The tone of the Relationships topic is often passive aggressive - other topics, apart from Chat and AIBU, are more rational.

Just thought that I'd post to say that I too have been diagnosed with BPD. It took my psychiatrist almost 18 months to tell me my diagnosis, I just wanted to treat the symptoms and not be labelled. It is a horrendous thing to cope with but in no way do I use it as an excuse for some of the ways I acted. I'm very lucky after many years of consulting with psychiatrists, nurses, gp's, therapists etc. and with the correct medication, I am living a pretty steady life. Anytime you wanna chat OP just PM.