Possible BPD husband

[gladiolus]

I've posted a few times about our problems. Long story short, I left him six months ago because I could no longer live with him, he begged me to at least continue our relationship in different houses if he promised to get help for his anger issues. I agreed and since then we have been together but living apart. He did see his GP and is waiting for an appointment with the mental health team.

Anyway, yesterday we were talking about the issue of women-on-men abuse in soaps. He started looking something up on my iPad and he must have found something which caught his interest as, after about half an hour of thoughtful surfing he asked me if I had ever heard of Borderline Personality Disorder. I said I had and asked him why.

"Because I think I might have it," he said.

Cue several hours of looking into it and half a dozen online tests which all seemed to point the the strong possibility that he might have moderate to severe BPD. A lot of the websites we found contained 'typical' descriptions of the way people with BPD act, think, behave etc and they are him to a tee, especially the whole Mr Nice/Mr Nasty thing, which his ex-wife told him as well.

One of the tests gave results for ALL personality disorders and he scored highly on Borderline/Antisocial/Histrionic, but very low on Narcissistic (which was a relief) and the others.

So now he's a bit scared about this and what it might mean. Personally I'm relieved as I had suspected he might suffer from some kind of personality disorder a while ago but I didn't like to present him with that thought as he would probably deny it extremely vocally. So for him to come to this by himself is very interesting and encouraging.

So, what do we do now? Obviously he needs to bring this up with the mental healthy person he eventually sees in the hopes of getting a firm diagnosis, but how can I help him? How can I support him? It doesn't help that I have suspected Asperger's and am awaiting my own diagnosis so, in his words, "We are both nutjobs."

Despite my last thread, I am not prepared to give up on my marriage, even though we currently cannot live together, but I want to help him with this. I want the nice husband back.

[mcmooncup]

MrsTerry's is completely right.
I work "in the industry" actually.
If you want me to say it, I will. He sounds like an abusive arsehole and you sound like you are in a co-dependent state (your use of the word "we" earlier raised my suspicions of this further).
I also disagree that it is easy to treat BPD. There is evidence that DBT has some effect however most people still have maladaptive social interactions even after intensive treatment for at least 18 months, one that you will be very lucky to get under the NHS.
Essentially, without being passive aggressive, if you were my friend, I would advise you to run, run, run. You have children to look out for. You are not anywhere near guaranteed that he will be able to change in any way. And all you can do is look at his behaviour, which is abusive. Period. And you should not excuse that in any way. Ever. And you should not have to live like that ever. I might say something different if you did not have children, but you do and therefore you run the VERY real risk of your children developing BPD if it is the case he has it (please note carefully one of the suspected causes of BPD). Really......you want that for them?

[EdnaScoggins]

Could you link to the correlation between a parent having BPD and their child developing it? Is it learned behaviour?

[greeneyed]

OP just wanted to say good luck with this and getting diagnosis - I have just been diagnosed with ADHD at 38 after a light bulb moment of googling my problems then reading about adult ADHD doing online assessments etc it was like an epiphany reading about MY life.

I know it's a completely different condition but I have seen several first line NHS mental health people and would have got nowhere if I hadn't self diagnosed then paid privately to see an ADHD specialist for diagnosis.

If you and your DH truly believe this could be his condition I would recommend finding a list of psychiatrists specialising in the diagnosis of this condition (support websites/forums for the condition could point you in the right direction) and ask your GP directly for a referral to one of these specialists.

Take a list to the GP or mental health team of all the symptoms and reasons why he believes he has this and how it has affected his life and yes print off the online assessments - make a case why he should be assessed specifically for this condition.

Good luck, It's good you are supporting him in this , but yes do agree with other posters that nothing changes in your arrangements until there is some action and more progress or he'll lose his incentive.

[MrsTerrysChocolateOrange]

The problem with looking at how PDs occur and their causes is that if a parent has BPD then their child has it, who can say if it is genetic, learned or the 'trauma' that caused it was caused by the parent. Very difficult to tell.

OP, I think the healthiest thing to do, if you are not going to immediately LTB, is for both of you to seek help separately. Both of you get good, professional help for your issues. Long-term and intensive. Then, if you still want to be together, maybe you could. My personal opinion is that you are not right for each other, your disordered thinking just fits currently. I think if you were both really mentally healthy, you wouldn't be in this relationship.

[EdnaScoggins]

But the statement above is that if a parent has BPD, there is a "VERY real risk of your children developing BPD". And that is being put forward as the "industry" view, whatever that means.

[EdnaScoggins]

Presumably the NHS view?

[frillynat81]

When I was having my treatment, I was told in not so many words that BPD can be brought on by trauma in the childhood. When I asked if there was a high risk of my son getting it, I was told no.

[frillynat81]

So the trauma does not have to be linked to a BPD parent.

[mcmooncup]

A common theme with a BPD diagnosis is that you have grown up in an environment where your emotions were dismissed by those around you. A BPD parent is more likely to do this, and so yes, there is a school of thought this is learned behaviour.

The thing is though, mental health treatment, diagnosis, prognosis is a lot down to so many factors that you would be hard pressed to find 2 psychologists / psychiatrists that always agree. It is such a difficult topic.
One thing I can pretty much guarantee is that there will be a psychiatrist/ psychologist somewhere who will be happy to give a BPD diagnosis on the DH should you search hard enough.
But STILL, it is about the behaviour that the OP is prepared to put up with for her family. Is abuse OK because someone has BPD? I personally don't think so. If he comes back in 2 years and has made changes, great, assess his behaviour then. But OP is talking about her "helping" and "fixing" and that is a sure fire way for that never to happen IMHO.

[mcmooncup]

"I was told in not so many words that BPD can be brought on by trauma in the childhood"

I would say in absolute terms that abusive marriages are traumatic for children.

[FromEsme]

BPD is a case of mind over matter, sure. I just keep on like this because I LIKE being a mess.

People sure speak a load of crap about BPD.

Your partner needs to see a doctor, OP. Those self-diagnoses things are nonsense.

[mcmooncup]

"People sure speak a load of crap about BPD."

Even the MH sector itself is full of contradictions, debates, 'sides'.

Which is why the OP should just concentrate on the behaviour itself. She cannot change it. And whether he gets a 'result' with the MH team is a gamble with very bad odds.

[pictish]

I won't be passive aggressive either.
I'll say quite bluntly that I think you are clutching at straws OP.
Even if he does have BPD, it makes no difference. His treatment of you is unacceptable, and if anything, the BPD angle should make you more determined than ever to do the best thing by your kids and bow out.

I think you're being naive and idealistic in thinking this is the big explanation, and the eureka moment twinned with some jolly hard work is going to put it all right.
He will just see your support as acquiescence and acceptance of his crap. You're just showing him you'll put up with anything so long as he can pin a name on it.
If I had managed to disentangle myself from a relationship with someone with BPD who had consistently treated me badly, then I'd be staying disentangled for good.
Apologies to you BPD sufferers who have been so open as to talk about it on here, but there you have it. I wouldn't see much in it for me.

The fact that you're grimly determined to stick with it makes me wonder about you OP. There's no man alive on this planet that I would dice with mine and my kids happiness for.

[EdnaScoggins]

OK, glad to hear the "VERY real risk of your children developing BPD" thing is not some backwoods NHS prejudice.

[frillynat81]

Nope no excuse for abuse because someone has BPD. The way I have behaved previously is inexcusable too. I was just trying to make the general point that just because a parent has BPD, doesn't mean their child automatically will.

[gladiolus]

Of course abuse is not OK, regardless of the reasons.

However, I would hope that, given the fact that he has come to this by himself, he is accepting that his behaviour is not right. He knows that. Even if he can;t see it for himself, then two wives leaving him and telling him the exact same things has shown him that something needs to be done.

I am hoping that, some time down the line, he will have a diagnosis, be accessing help, and he will be CHANGING. Of course he needs to be willing to change, otherwise it will not happen. You don't have to be a psychiatrist to know that.

"please note carefully one of the suspected causes of BPD" - that's not really helpful if you don't tell me what it is.

I hope I have taken my children away from the situation early enough that there was no lasting harm done. We only lived together for two years and there is no genetic connection to worry about.

[pictish]

Just make sure you stay living apart for the foreseeable.

[frillynat81]

And I am hoping that everyone reading this does not think that us BPDers are all physically abusive, because we are not!

[pictish]

And quit with all the we and us business as well...it's he and him. Your role is to stand back and let him get on with it.

[mcmooncup]

Relationships (or as other poster has said, trauma) in childhood.

Ok, what I am trying to get across here is that this is NOT simple, nowhere near straightforward. A diagnosis actually changes nothing. The change part is incredibly hard. And most of all, it is not you who needs to change so you cannot help or be responsible, or even the one who sacrifices your feelings for his. You actually don't and shouldn't do anything.

You can only look at behaviour that presents. And whether that is acceptable for you and your family.

[mcmooncup]

frilly - that is exactly the point. NPD and abuse are separate issues. That is why a diagnosis changes nothing.

[pictish]

I don't think that at all!
I would hate for physical violence to be pinned on BPD.

[pictish]

You can only look at behaviour that presents. And whether that is acceptable for you and your family.

I agree.

[frillynat81]

Well said moon.

[frillynat81]

OP where did he get BPD from in the first place? Cause it isn't a well known condition. How did he come about being on a site and thinking, ah I think I may have that?