Husband had a lap dance....?!?

[Hitchy83]

Hi all, this is the first time I've posted on here but just needed some impartial opinions!!
Back in August me and my husband planned a weekend away in Leeds as a break before baby arrived, I was 7 months pregnant. While watching TV a few nights before we went I looked at his phone and the normally stupid messages between him and his best friend (I know stupid of me to do so, it's not that I don't trust him but I've often found him telling his best friend things e hasn't told me, nothing major but stuff I thought we would have talked about). Anyway his messages referred to my husbands stag do which was 3 years ago and joked if he would be going back to the strip club in leeds to get another lap dance, I was absolutely mortified. I trust my husband completely and we've always been very open with no secrets, I did joke to him no strip clubs before he went on his stag do but he assured me that wasn't his thing so I didn't think anything more of it. When I confronted my husband he started by saying he had forgotten all about it as he was drunk, but the more I probed the more he released information, his friend had 2, he had to have one as it was his stag do etc! I tried to laugh it off as I wanted us to enjoy our weekend away but when I came home I became obsessed with finding out about the club and looking at you tube videos of lap dances to see what happens, and became really upset by it all. We never had an proper argument about it as he kept laughing it off and telling me it was his stag do and that in being silly but I couldn't help but picture a girl girating all around him in her lingere and him getting off on it. I'd managed to push it to the back of my mind but since I had our son 6 weeks ago and I look at my stretch marks and wobbly belly all I can think of is that my husband will always have this image of the girl all over him on his stag do and now ill never compare to this :-( I've since looked at his messages to his friend and they keep sending half naked pictures of celebs to each other talking about how hot they are etc. I honestly had this halo over my husband, we've been together more than 11years and I thought I knew him inside out and never thought he was just like every other man oogling these images and going to strip clubs, it's broken my heart to find out about his lap dance :-(
I just don't know if I'm over reacting and being completely naive, is this to be expected on a stag do? I spoke to one of my friends who was just as shocked but she seemed to think it was his stag do so may have been pushed into it. I don't know what to do, I love him so much and I know we won't split up over this, but I'm so secretly hurting I don't know how to get over it?
Has anyone else been in a similar position or any ideas how I can get over this?
Thanks
H x

Nobody's asked you to condemn her, GetAll - what a strange leap you made there. The men in my life would not be happy for their daughters to become strippers - and I'm including in that my dad, my husband, my brother and my male friends. It's not exactly every daddy's dream for their daughter to become a stripper is it?

Please don't put stuff on here by Dr Belinda Brooks-Gordon and expect me to take you seriously.

Btw, you answered sabrina's question, as you said, which was addresssed to Daddancer. You are arguing in support of lap dancing clubs, (aren't you? - you have a very strange concept of argument if not), as is Daddancer, therefore, you ally yourself with him.

Sorry, I realise that looks like I'm talking about myself in the third person there. I was initially going to quote GetAll "I am responding to the question, from sabrina" and then changed it. It all went a bit wrong.

GetAll, I would really like to know how you don't think you're allying yourself with Daddancer - you're both defending ldc's.

GetAll I'm curious as to this statement

If my dd, through her own choice, wanted to fund her education through working in a LDC, as said, I would support her

What would you want me to do condemn her ? Have a breakdown ? Go nuts at her?

Do you not consider that there is anything inbetween these two choices? We are there to guide and teach our children as well as support them. What if she wanted, through her own choice, to fund her education by prostitution, for example. Would you also support that?

Many sex workers, including dancers, end up in a very damaged emotional state. Imagine putting yourself in the position where you are a commodity, to be bought and sold, manhandled and mistreated. It's going to have an affect on you, your self esteem (which would have to be pretty low in the first place to do that), your mental health and emotional wellbeing.

It's not all about money, the personal cost is often a very high price to pay. I would absolutely caution my child against this and do everything I could to prevent them debasing themselves in this way.

Yes, ultimately they have to make their own decisions but I would not support it.

I think educating our children about the dangers of the sex industry would be a very good start to their education anyway. What's the point of a degree if you have no self worth?

GetAll, would you like to explain how exactly I'm being passive aggressive?

Thinking about fathers and daughters, my lovely dad would probably say to me now "Sweetheart, why are you wasting your time arguing with idiots on the internet?" And I'd say "dunno Dad."

So I might just take his (imaginary) advice.

Fairenuff raises very interesting points - I completely agree.

Oh dear - someone should really read around sources and check before posting else they may make themselves look rather foolish!

GetAll - your claims about Sweden's sex laws are completely inaccurate. You've been listening to the sex activists too much. The Swedish Government's Independent Inquiry into the efficacy of the laws in 2011 shows:

Street prostitution reduced by half. This reduction may be considered to be a direct result of the criminalisation of sex purchases. In a comparison, we have noted that the prevalence of street prostitution was about the same in the three capital cities of Norway, Denmark and Sweden before the ban on the purchase of sexual services was introduced here, but the number of people in street prostitution in both Norway and Denmark subsequently increased dramatically. In 2008, the number of people in street prostitution in both Norway and Denmark was estimated to be three times higher than in Sweden.

There is no evidence that prostitution has been pushed underground:

There is nothing to indicate that Internet-based prostitution has increased more in Sweden than in these comparable countries (Denmark & Norway). This contradicts the idea that street prostitution has simply changed arenas to the Internet. With this in mind it seems reasonable to conclude that the 50% decrease in street prostitution that has occurred is a real reduction of prostitution in Sweden, and that this reduction is probably primarily an effect of the criminalisation of sex purchases.

source

GetAll - re the lap dancing - you would really be happy with your daughter working in an industry where (according to the Leeds report):

30% of dancers cite "losing all their faith in men" as the main negative of the job.

47% cite having to hide their job from friends and family...

40% cite customers being abusive towards them...

60% as never knowing exactly how much money they will earn.

I don't think supporting a daughter in doing this for a living is a particularly good parenting choice.

But I also think you're being a bit disingenuous too - I don't actually think you'd be that happy to find out your daughter was a stripper.

And, GetAll - you could see your parental role as educating your daughter from an early age, that she is an equal to men - that women are not the sex class to be abused by (some) men. That she can have a career that never involves demean herself, having to strip, wiggle, and run around after men half naked, for money.

I think the biggest illusion in the sex industry is the illusion that it is empowering for the women who work in it. It's not empowerment - it's being a paid sex slave.

runningforthebusinheels

" Naively, she believed the dancing would be fun, glamorous and she would be able to pick her customers, which was not true. ?Sometimes I was really repulsed because they had been drinking so heavily, but also it was age. When it was for someone 45 and above I would have in the back of my head ?you probably have a daughter.? I would make a moral judgement on them, but I would still dance for them. And I think this can be psychologically damaging because it becomes a question of what you will do for money.? "

sorry for not replying back but this is just one persons opinion, who was obviously disgruntled about their job, hardly the basis to make a whole judgement out of it. Also i am not that old and the girls have always been around the same age as me typically 25-35. It's true a lot of them are students, but what they fail to mention in these reports is that most are mature students. Well that has always been the case with the clubs i have been to. Also you don't normally get past the bouncers if you have been drinking heavily. So was it a very well run club?

and my reason for focusing on these kind of topics on mumsnet. Well that's due to the fact that people on here hold some of the most strong and extreme views on these matters that i have ever witnessed on any forum, which I believe need be challenged.

Well that's due to the fact that people on here hold some of the most strong and extreme views on these matters that i have ever witnessed on any forum, which I believe need be challenged.

I wonder what type of forums you frequent? Male dominated ones, perhaps? Forums with posters who frequent sex industry establishments, therefore preferring to keep thinking that they do no harm? How noble of you to give up your time to challenge the views on MN. Does it ever occur to you that since MN is such a huge forum these days, that the "strong and extreme views" held by posters on here may in actual fact, not be that strong or extreme at all, just not the views that you personally come across in your day to day life?

"Well that's due to the fact that people on here hold some of the most strong and extreme views on these matters that i have ever witnessed on any forum, which I believe need be challenged."

Good Lord.

Would you listen to yourself?

Quick, hurry - DadDancer, over there, no, over there >>>>>> yes! There's someone questioning the sex industry!! Quick! They need challenging! Somebody, somewhere might have to forego their right to a stranger's genitals sashayed in front their face!!

I'd say that you're talking about two things. I don't think you can really compare dancing with prostitution

The point I was making is that supporting your child in whatever decision they take is not always best for the child. As a parent, we should educate, guide and teach our children and help them make the right choices.

If you teach your daughters from an early age not to believe that they have to 'suck it up' because they are female and teach your sons from an early age that their behaviour will not be excused because they are male, you will have a semblance of equality.

Why would a child who had a choice choose lapdancing? Think about that. What lessons have they learned growing up that make them think that this is the best, most appropriate way to fund their education? Because if it's a free choice there are always other ways to earn money.

Does the sex industry seem glamourous? Do they think the will get rich quick? Are they unaware that they will be sexually abused? Can they cope with the trauma of being treated like nothing but a walking, dancing vagina?

Fwiw, I don't think that there is a huge leap between lap dancing and prostitution. They are both jobs in the sex industry. They involve a woman showing her naked body to a man for his sexual gratification in return for money. The only difference really is that if he wants to enter her with his penis he has to pay more. So a lap dancer is a poor man's prostitute really imho.

I suppose if your happy place is Punter Net, then you might find MN a bit "challenging"

I think AF has failed to enter into any kind of debate on this thread OP and you do well to ignore her.

GetAll - I think it has been said many times on this thread that the Leeds study cannot account for the cognitive dissonance of the lap dancers - as they often have a very different view of the job once they have left the industry.

If you are happy for your daughter to suffer the pretty nasty negatives of the job, then that's your business - but I like the way you have completely ignored Fairenuff's very, very good post on educating our young girls from an early age that they do not need to act out sexual fantasies, or be paid sex toys for men.

I have debated it over and over, pickled. Some people will never listen, because they don't care that it is always someone's daughter up there grinding her vagina on someone old enough to be her father. I no longer believe they are worth my time in trying to get them to see my POV, because they never will.

Instead, I take the piss, because really, what other response do these people expect when they continually defend the indefensible?. My contempt is a small price to pay for them.

GetAll - I have no idea of the sources used by the UN paper on HIV. However, the views you were posting were consistent with the likes of the sex activists who are becoming a disturbing powerful voice on the subject of prostitution. However, the paper I linked to gives a fuller picture of the effects of legalising prostitution since it looks at research from a variety of sources.

The sex activists are arguing for the legalisation/ decriminalisation/ regulation of the sex industry. The paper I linked to also gives interesting insight into the state of prostitution in the Netherlands (where prostitution is legalised/ regulated).

'According to the evaluation carried out in 2007, it is impossible to say whether the situation for prostitutes has improved since the regulation was put in place, in spite of the authorities efforts to protect them and improve their situation and legal status...the evaluation also reported on a survey that used a number of criteria to compare the sex sellers' emotional wellbeing in 2001 and 2006. The results indicated that their wellbeing had deteriorated in all respects. These findings correspond to other results which show that persons in prositution experience growing anxiety and that their use of tranquilisers has increased. Apparently the prostitutes were also less satisfied with their incomes in 2006 compared with 2001'

So hardly a glowing recommendation for legalisation/regulation.

The sex activists are not arguing for the welfare of the working girls, otherwise they would take the findings of the above study into account. They are fighting for their rights to profit from prostituted women.

Gotta laugh at Daddancer's latest post.

AF, I happen to agree with your POV but I find that the way you react to posters in the OP's position is very formulaic and does little to help.

Some people are conflicted when they partake of services from the sex industry and there is a debate to be had that may help them to be less so but that debate doesn't involve calling them all women-haters!

pickled, my inbox would beg to differ with your assessment of my "formulaic" approach