Big problems with DP's family - help!

[TheKindnessOfStrangers]

Please can somebody advise me.

Earlier this year we moved house. The reason ostensibly was because we wanted somewhere bigger, in the catchment area for a good school, but the real reason was because we wanted to get away from my BIL.

He is unemployed and was coming round to our house most days to eat dinner and verbally abuse us. He would pick fights by saying provocative, usually racist, things and then call us terrible names if we got irritated. My DP just wouldn?t or couldn?t deal with it (?He?s depressed. We have to be nice to him. I?m not going to turn my own brother away from my door? etc.). In the last year or so before we moved he started turning up in the day when DP was at work. Sometimes it was ok. For a while I even (naively) though we were friends. Sometimes he would harangue me to the point of tears. I remember once standing in the street with him, I don?t know where we?d been, as he ranted and raved at me whilst I sobbed and felt wretched. I don?t remember any of the details of what he said, just him screaming at me and calling me a cocksucker (nice, I know!).

One day I made the mistake of calling on him at his house. To cut a long story short, he raped me. I didn?t tell anybody in RL. My DP?s family have never liked me and I highly doubt they?d have believed me. I wasn?t even sure my DP would believe me (I didn?t fight and it would?ve been my word against his). It would have ripped the whole family apart. I?ve since spoken to Rape Crisis who said the case probably wouldn?t make it to court if I ever went to the police because I didn?t tell anybody at the time (they also told me it?s quite usual, and often safer, not to fight).

After that he started following me and hassling me when I was out and about. Sometimes he?d want to borrow money, sometimes he?d have a go at me, sometimes he?d proposition me. I told DP about it, and about the money and the verbal abuse, but not the propositioning. DP still did nothing, but that was when we started talking about moving house (I sent him numerous texts asking him not to approach me unless I was with DP).

After we moved I dug my heels in and flatly refused to have him in the house, and DP, whilst not fully understanding, respected this, but I had to go back to our old neighbourhood daily to take DS to nursery and quite often he would wait outside the nursery for me. One day he followed me half a mile down the road, trying to persuade me to let him come back with me to the house, or go for a walk with him in the park, or go back to his house. DP still did nothing. Desperately hoping for some support from somebody in the family, I mentioned it to my SIL and a few days later got an e-mail from my other BIL, her husband, saying that I was ?twisting reality? and basically that I?ve been mean and horrible for ?not accepting his olive branch? and for cutting him out of DS?s life (of course he was seeing DS almost daily before) (which I haven?t done, as DP still takes DS to see him when he can ? quite often he doesn?t pick up the phone when DP calls him to arrange a visit) and that they don?t want anything more to do with me. So I think it?s safe to say they wouldn?t have believed me regarding the rape. In the end we took DS out of that nursery and moved him to a local one.

Anyway, DS?s birthday is approaching and I?m being put under a lot of pressure from both my DP and my own parents to hold for him the sort of party that is traditional in DP?s family ? one where you invite all the family around to your house for sandwiches and cake ? and invite my BIL. DP thinks we need to ?build bridges? (I think my MIL is putting pressure on him), and my parents think I?m being stubborn because I simply don?t like the guy (and that I?m putting undue strain on my relationship with my DP) (I've not told them the truth either, because I?m sure they?d see it as my fault ? they always have whenever I?ve gotten into trouble). They are saying they won?t come if I don?t invite my BIL.

What do I do? Having him ?anywhere near me-- in my house is anathema to me, but how can I avoid it when even my own parents won?t back me up?

Have just had a talk with DP about the birthday party. He is adamant that we invite BIL (it is "only right" that he is there because he loves DS and DS loves him), but is now saying we can go out for a meal rather than hold it at home. He wants to go to a restaurant in the town centre that'll be really easy for BIL to get to.

I believe you. Please believe in yourself and don't have this awful man in your life any more. Please tell your dp, there's no way you can work towards having him gone fully until you do, and I've a feeling that it's going to take yor do quite some time and energies to process this information (sadly).

Agree you need to tell your DP.

There could be a history of allegations against your BIL which you are unaware of but your DP is. Or he may be strong in a way which surprises you.

He may believe you. He should believe you. If he doesn't believe you, you cannot and should not be with him.

I don't think you're going to find much peace carrying this awful man's secret, TBH.

darling, please go back to Rape Crisis and start the counselling ball rolling. From what you say no-one on the entire planet has ever offered you a kind and loving relationship. You need to unravel all the strands about the rape - how you got close to him (because you were so lonely in your relationship with your DP, his brother), how that dramatically backfired the day he raped you and all the other extremely abusive incidents you mention.

I am so sorry you have had a truly horrible time. Please, start counselling properly - you won't be able to put this behind you along with the pile of stuff that is no doubt 'behind you'. It doesn't work like that. If your own parents would blame you if you told them you were raped, the chances are that your relationshp with them is extremely toxic - you will need to work through all that in a safe counselling relationship with a professional who will offer you the respect you deserve and should have had your whole life. Plenty of us have done counselling (and continue to do it) because of an appalling start to life.

The rape wasn't your fault, even if you became inappropriately close to him. The one doesn't follow the other, only a brute and a pig would do what he did to you. You were in no way at fault on any level - you must believe that.

I hope you can rescue you and your boy from what sounds like a pure nightmare for you. I hope one day you will be leading a life surrounded by people who respect you for who you are, and don't force you to be someone else. xx

Kindness, I'm so sorry this terrible thing happened to you.

The relationship with your BIL will be a life long problem unless you tell your DP what happened. It is in no way your fault.

If your DH chooses not to believe you and be supportive, is this truly the relationship you want for the rest of your life? My DH would be horrified and heartbroken if I said the same of his brother but I know he would believe me absolutely and support me. He would be furious and repulsed by his brother's actions, despite their own family relationship.

It seems that your DH is minimising all the issues between BIL so far. This itself is pretty unsupportive but family dynamics can be hard to sort out in your head. Someone raping your wife is not hard to sort out in your head. That's just plain wrong.

I am not qualified to tell you to leave your husband or how to handle this. I don't have the answers. But seeing as you posted here, I wanted to say that I believe you and you do not deserve to be in this awful position. You did nothing wrong except trust someone to behave like a normal decent adult (BIL) when they are a completely vile human being.

Oh dear. I've been hitting the wine all evening and am starting to feel maudlin. I know in my heart that everything you are saying is true. But I suspect that makes me a minority of one in my family. I have thought about leaving so many times. But if I leave I will be completely 100% on my own. I'm not going to leave and pick up the threads of my social life pre-DP/DS because I had no social life pre-DP/DS. I would be doing the things I do now - work and look after DS - but I'd be doing them by myself. And I have a history of depression, I'm already quite depressed, and I just don't see how I'm going to avoid slipping into a big fat depressive episode that I may never come out of. I could come on Mumsnet - and I do appreciate the support I've had on here today, very much - but it's not the same as having people in RL. Also everybody has been so kind today but that has not always been my experience of Mumsnet. I ought to go to bed. Thank you everybody, I will re-read this thread a number of times and think hard about everything that's been said.

Sweetheart, you can make a new life for yourself and ds. That's the beauty of it. You can ALWAYS start over.

These people are not good for you. They are destroying your self-worth and self belief. We believe you and we believe IN you.

No, MN is not the same as RL support but that's where counselling will be so helpful. You can't change everything straight away but you can take steps. Every step will bring you closer to the life you want and deserve.

Please get back on to Rape Crisis and let them help with counselling. Please don't put yourself through seeing that monster again. YOU DON'T HAVE TO.

Your partner is a Grade A prick and your BIL is a disgusting animal and you will be well shot of the lot of them.

Wise words from waltermitty. Op, worry about friends later, they'll come in their own good time. There's community groups out there that will help you. You won't be alone.

You've had no love from anybody and, believe it or not, that isn't your fault. by the sound of it, you have been set up from primary age, I'm guessing, to not believe you are loveable, or wantable. Join the club, as it happens. I also have no family for very similar reasons ie they're alive but not in my life. so Im 100% alone too (not that this is about me).

counselling will unpick all the shit you've been fed, which has no doubt fed your depression. No wonder you're depressed - who wouldn't be? You are loveable (say that to yourself in the mirror! It takes a bit of practise, especially looking into your eyes, that's a hard one if you've had it ground into you that you are shit). Believe me, accepting vile people in your life is not better than being on your own. A counsellor will support you all the way to finding the lovely you. it takes time, though: 6 weeks won't do it.

(btw booze is a depressant. Understandable to want to drown the pain though...)

Oh Kindness your OP was so sad to read,as well as the later comments you made.

I believe you. The rape is not your fault. It doesn't matter that you didn't fight back,it is still not your fault.

I can understand why you have been reluctant to tell your DP but now that he is trying to force BIL back into your life,I think you should tell him. And if he blames you,I think you should leave him. This BIL is a manipulative predatory rapist bastard,all you deserve is support from your DP.

Keep speaking to the Rape Crisis people. Put yourself and your DS first above anyone else and their feelings. Certainly you should be kinder to yourself. You are much stronger than you seem to think you are. I have no idea how you have managed to carry on this long

OP I wrote a long reply yesterday, and lost it

I had a lump in my throat reading your story

I am just so so sorry for what you are going through

to be raped is bad enough, but to then have to live and accept the rapist....

your post last night was very sad, thats the wine huh!?

This issue will never go away, it will fester and fester

I have no hard advice here as I can see 100% how hard it is, how depressed you are, and how difficult it is

but please go to therapy

I really hope that you can find the courage to tell your DP

you do NOT deserve this

sending love and courage your way xxxxx

I also think what you said at 20:40

maybe the event itself was just "crap", but the aftermath is beyond horrendous

Hi kindness You could be so happy you know. On your own yes, but safe, secure, and building friendships and eventually relationships that nurture and support you.

You will never be truly happy in this situation, seriously, how long can this go on?

You have a history of depression, so think you can't leave in case you slip into a hole, I understand. But you are far more likely to crack if you try and keep up this life with this total pack of bastards that are supposed to be your family.

please consider telling your DP, see what he's made of, because if he lets you down here, you know you can't continue, is that what you are afraid of? That he will let you down then you will have no choice?

Rape crisis is probably right that it won't go to court but you can still make an informal complaint to the police so he is on their radar. As someone else said it is unlikely he only behaves like this with you and could have prior that they know of.
You also should look into counselling it may give you the courage or techniques to discuss this with your DP and family.
The way he treated you is unacceptable and your DP should support that, the fact he used abusive language is a reason in itself not to have him around your DS. Your DP should understand that you being verbally abused in front of your DH is not acceptable or sending the right signals on how men treat women.
I am so sorry you are going through this, I cannot imagine how hard it must be to have your rapist in your life even at all. You really need to confide in someone close to you, a friend, a family member, ideally your DP but if you can't someone you need support and someone to back p your corner in this situation.
Do not let him into your home your DP can have a relationship with him outside the home and you need your safe place, I am sure people will be more supportive when they know what has happened.
I would be very concerned having this monster in my sons life.

If you aren't ready to tell your partner yet - and the fear that he won't believe you/will abandon you (as your parents have done ) could well be holding you back - you could go into a refuge. yy you may be horrified at that but don't be: it is a way to be in a safe place while you slowly recover; also to meet women who have been in similar situations to you. A lot of refuges are lovely places. You don't have to be hit to be a victim of domestic abuse - a lot of women wish they had been hit to have something to show for the years of undermining and mind games; something that is easy to prove and that others recognise as unacceptable.

Alien is so right to say you are far more likely to crack if you try and keep up this life with this total pack of bastards that are supposed to be your family. You can't go on like this, dodging and dodging, running scared, with the whole thing forcing itself on you over and over. You must feel you are between a rock and a hard place: tell your husband and risk being rejected by him and the family (including yours ) or be forced to let your rapist back in your life. You need the support of Rape Crisis pronto - you've done the groundwork and they will be ready to pick this up and run with it, supporting you through the next weeks and months.

How are you today Kindness?

I wish I hadn't posted that - you must feel your options are all dire. They aren't, there really is a way. Your NN suggests as such xx

You OK Kindness?

Kindness, depression is an illness and is well recognised these days. U can get help from a GP.

U need to get out more. Look on the local boards. Try netmums too. U can improve things. Honestly.

I realise it must b daunting but just imagine what this time Nxt year might b like if u do nothing. And how good it could b if u do.

Hugs

I'm ok, I just felt really worn out after posting all that stuff on Tuesday.

Glad to see you back, Kindness. No wonder you felt worn out - it was very brave of you to put yourself out there and risk other people's disapproval after everything you have been through. I hope the responses you have received show you that the normal reaction to your story is sympathy and not blame. I am so sorry you don't get that reaction from either of your families - shame on them, but most definitely not on you.

It sounds like you put an enormous amount of time and effort into making other people happy - please put some of that nurturing back into yourself now, because you need it and deserve it.

Kindness, I'm so sorry you're in this position.

I think one thing you need to do, apart from talking to Rape Crisis when you can and getting counselling, is to try to create for yourself your own social circle, so you have people there just for you. Have something for yourself, like a hobby or course or class - and network, and keep it separate.

Guess you're taking time out to think things through, that's fine, just know there are always people here who will believe and support you, when the time comes. Take good care of yourself and your DS

Just thought I'd post an update on this thread.

At the last minute I gave in agreed that DP could invite my BIL round for DS's birthday. I'd just read about the 'abuse triangle' and my reasoning at the time was that I had to try to move beyond the position of victim. My MIL and other (2nd) BIL didn't come to the party because they'd made plans that day to go visit my other (3rd) BIL, who lives a couple of hundred miles away (BIL 3 was the one who was not happy about the battery-operated toy) so it was just me, DP, DS, BIL 1 and my parents. It was ok, I spoke to BIL 1 as little as I could whilst still being civil. Me and DP agreed beforehand that if he started with any if his rubbish we would just ask him to leave. He got a bit huffy when we made it clear that we were not going to offer anybody dinner and tried to insist we order takeaway, but then my parents got up to leave and DP just hustled him out of the door with them (I knew he wouldn?t be happy with just seeing us, that he?d have to push us in some way).

He hasn?t been round since. DP is of course open to having him in the house, he was very happy that he came up on DS?s birthday, whereas I of course remain ambivalent but am quite confident that my days of sitting there letting him pick fights with me etc. are over ? the least bit of nonsense and I?d kick him out, and call the police if he wouldn?t go (for we had that a couple of times ? us asking him to go and him sitting our living room refusing, one time sticking his fingers in his ears and going ?La, la, la, I?m not listening?. Really!). Fortunately we have been busy redecorating the house and stuff so DP has parked the idea of a visit for the time being.

A problem I?ve got now is that I?m being ?punished? by the rest of DP?s family for not having BIL 1 in the house for so long, and also, I suspect , for admitting to my sister-in-law that I was thinking of calling the police when he wouldn?t stop hassling me in the street, as I?m sure she and BIL 3 have told the rest of the family. With my MIL it?s been confined to pointed comments about how DP has moved ?further and further away? from his family since we got together and how BIL 1 is really upset by everything that?s happened and it?s a shame we can?t make up (even though she now knows about the harassment as DP told her in an attempt to explain to her why I feel what I feel).

With BIL 2, well, he came to visit over Christmas with my FIL. He obviously didn?t want to come but FIL dragged him along. We were all sat in our front room drinking tea and eating mince pies. BIL 2 completely ignored me, until I asked if I could hold his baby DD (for the first time). Then he glared at me like I?d suggested something deeply disgusting and stared at his lap. DP and MIL, who was also there, were deep in conversation with DF and didn?t notice. I dragged DP into the kitchen and told him what had happened and for once he was pissed off and on my side, and went out and asked them all to leave. He?s said he won?t allow BIL 2 back in the house until he?s apologised to me for being so rude.

I could just refuse to have anything to do with any of them. But I?m bothered by the thought of DP going to see them and taking DS with them and me never being there to observe what?s going on. I got DP to agree that at least for a while he won?t go to see them without me tagging along. However yesterday he wanted to go see BIL 1, meet him at a café in our old neighbourhood, and I just couldn?t face it so he went on his own with DS. He had to drop a jacket off at the dry cleaners and left DS and BIL 1 standing outside, only to come out and find BIL 1 shouting and swearing at a driver who?d parked on the pavement (a mum, whose three kids were in the car) (he does that a lot, gets aggressive with strangers). DP came home and swore he will never leave DS on his own with BIL 1 for even a minute (I?d already made him promise never to allow DS to have unsupervised contact with him). But I want DS to have no contact with him.

By the way, DP bumped into him on his way to the dry cleaners today to pick up his jacket and he subjected him to a 45 minute tirade about how the family has helped him loads (DP had a serious illness before we?ve got together and they did do a lot for him at the time) but he has repaid them with disloyalty by moving away (we?ve moved the grand distance of 5 miles down the road!). I can see that he is pulling on DP?s strings just as he used to pull on mine, as DP came home looking very low and guilty. I told him a bunch of times he?s done nothing wrong but I don?t think he?s convinced.

Regarding telling my DP what happened, I?m still thinking about it.

Sorry, DP going to see them and taking DS with him.

you need to get a confession out of him. if u cud threaten to tell everyone about the rape if he doesnt stay away. ask him why he did it and (RECORD on ur phone this conversation or texts. jus something so ur dp will believe you

Im glad things are improving for you, and that your DP seems to be standing up for you more.

Unless you tell your DP, he will always want BIL1 in his life, and so also in your life and your sons. The only way to break clean is to tell your DP about the rape. Your DP will believe you and will stand up for you, and if he doesnt, you probably dont want to spend your life with a DP like that.

I know its not easy to tell someone intimate information like this, but if you cant tell your DP and soon to be DH, you need to consider how strong your relationship really is.

Good luck.