SAHM and need relationship advice. I can't live like this any more

[weirdalien]

I've NC'd for this. I'm really struggling with 'D'H at the moment. I'm a SAHM, was made redundant when I was pregnant with DS. It was always the plan that I would either stay at home and we'd manage for money or I'd work very part time for a bit extra cash. There isn't much work out there, part time or otherwise, so I am working freelance (for peanuts) in the time that DS naps or after he's in bed and I have cooked, and cleaned up, so by that time I am knackered anyway and struggle to get much done.

Arguments over money have escalated into him basically yelling that I have the life of riley and 'spending' money coming out of my ears and that I am leaving him with nothing every month. He gives me £550 per month for food for all of us, clothes for me and DS, fuel/insurance/tax for car, birthday and Christmas presents for DS and for family, pet food x3 and any vets bills. And in normal months I do, through bloody good management and some creative cooking and making, manage fine on this amount. He has £200 ish per month, sometimes more, to spend on himself (his lunches are covered by family food shop).

He's very resentful of every penny we're 'costing' him and says I just take take take from him. I so far have spent £400 of my freelance income on a holiday for us, but haven't touched the rest as I was saving to move house (together). I only earn a max of about £400 a month and have only done three months so far. I was also not spending any more of it as we had been trying to get pregnant with DC2. He now says that I need to use this money for bills so that he has more money for himself.

The last straw has been the fact that we have no money (from the monthly 'pot') left for food/nappies this month after spending too much on the holiday I wish we'd never had, and now I'm scrimping and saving trying to afford Christmas, when he announces that he is spending yet more money on his classic car and on going to the classic motor show next month.

I've recited all the arguments about my value as a SAHM but it makes no difference to him. I feel like I'd rather be on my own that face the tirade of 'I'm so sick of having no money to spend on myself - you have plenty of money.'

Tell me I'm being silly and this isn't as bad as I think... (sorry so, so long. Was trying not to drip feed but will probably happen anyway).

Glad to hear about the plan B :)

It must be pretty gutting to have to hope you're not pregnant by your own husband when you want another baby :(

Yep - not even going there at the moment. I reckon I'd have to start a new thread for that :)

Does his father treat his mother this way too?

Im glad you have a plan B.

it sounds like, 'what's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine..'

So, his 'pocket money' is £400 and your allowance is the household budget. Doesn't make sense. You need to get £400 to spend on yourself to even out the imbalance, or you each get £200.00. The household expenses are separate.

But like others say, the money isn't the issue, it's about control.

ilovemydogandMrObama

So, his 'pocket money' is £400 and your allowance is the household budget.

and of course, as OP says the money that she earns, too. At around £400 a month.

I have explained the reasons why I am hanging on to the money I have earned and he says he understands this.

I'm not sure I understand what the last two posts are getting at - of course this is what H says, that I am taking his money and keeping hold of my own. What he wants though is for him to have more money to spend on himself and I use the £400 a month for bills. Thereby increasing his free money, and reducing the family pot. I have only earned £800 so far, £400 spent on a family holiday (won't be doing that again).

Next time he pulls his "I'll give up work, then" tantrum, just put on a face of false concern and ask him how he'll afford his classic car then and how sad he'll be to have to sell it to make ends meet, THE MASSIVE WANKER...

And some people seem to be implying that because I hold on to my earnings in my bank account (thereby stopping them being spent on cars) then I am not putting them in the family pot - we don't have a joint account. So unless I give them to H to put in his bank, I am having a what's mine is mine attitude?

No I think your misreading those posts. I was too but now I see.

Saving money is not a mine is mine. Its quite clear he wants that £400 to spend on the car too. He an arsehole.

'i'll pack my job in."

The way I understand it, OPs husband has an "allowance" of personal spending money he uses for hobbies. OP has nothing of the sort, her "allowance" goes to bills and clothes and groceries. Which is why she is saving the little she has earnt on freelance work - ie not taken out as salary yet, I would say - to save for bigger things like holidays and Christmas. The reason? Her husband would automatically usurp this money and spend them on his hobby, in addition to his "allowance".

OP. This is not a marriage of equals. Your husband is a shit.

Ok - sorry if I misread. I was confused.
Arsehole it is then.

I think I'm suggesting he's a tosser who should front up his money into the joint account - from where all the bills, including holidays get paid.

He can then see what it costs to run the joint household.
He gets his car money out of what's left.
If you're keeping more money than he keeps...

Rack yours into the joint account, and take 50% of the leftovers each.

That'll concentrate his mind a bit.

What do you really want to happen. Would you like to have a joint account into which all money goes. Or would you be worried he would spend the money you put in on his car. I think you'll have to come up with a plan of how you want things to be and then confront him with this plan. I think if there is to be a solution and you are to stay together you will have to say I want you to do this this and this. And if he doesn't. Well then you will have to take it from there. You are not happy the way things are so something has to change.

I think this relationship is doomed, as well, because it's almost impossible to get a man like this to understand that women are people. At the root of his behaviour is the idea that he is the person in the household, you and DC are props/pets/obstacles/things. So he is the only one entitled to spending money, to a hobby, to decision-making, because he is the Important One.

Men who have inclinations in this direction that they have managed to hide long enough for a woman to marry them or have DC with them always show their true colours if the woman becomes a SAHM, because the men then feel that the woman is their servant, that the money is theirs because they earn it and therefore their treats, hobbies and interests take priority over boring things like new shoes for DC and making sure there's something more interesting than beans on toast for tea.

You should really stop subsidising him.

Take £200 from your freelance money for yourself each month and if you can't make ends meet from the housekeeping he gives you, ask him for more.

I think you really must forget about having another baby, at least for now.

It seems to me you are doing everything you can. If he wants more money, it's up to him really to get a better paid job, or a second job. You are hardly being extravagant!

You might remind him that the cost of separation and divorce will be far greater than staying together and working this out. However, if he's not prepared to compromise then you might find this background reading useful:

Relationship Breakdown and Divorce ? Advice and Links

It is useful if you can get to grips with the language of family law and procedure, and get an understanding of your rights, BEFORE you see a solicitor. If you are well prepared you will save time and money.

Children

If there are children involved, their welfare, needs and interests are paramount. Parents have responsibilities, not rights, in this regard. Shared residence means both parties having an equal interest in the upbringing of the children. It does not mean equal (50/50) parenting time - children are not possessions to be ?fairly? divided between separating parents.

A divorce will not be granted where children are involved unless there are agreed arrangements for finance, and care of the children (?Statement of Arrangements for Children?). It is obviously quicker and cheaper if this can be agreed but if there is no agreement, the Court will make an Order - ?Residence and Contact? regarding children, ?Financial Order? or ?Ancillary Relief? in the case of Finance. Information and links to these can be found in the Directgov link below. Residence and Contact Orders are likely to be renamed Child Arrangements Orders in future.

Always see a specialist family lawyer!

Get word of mouth recommendations for family lawyers in your area if possible. If you have children at school, ask mums you are friendly with if they know of anyone who can make a recommendation in your area. These days there are few people who don?t know of anyone who has been through a divorce or separation ? there?s a lot of knowledge and support out there!

Many family lawyers will offer the first half hour consultation free. Make use of this. Don?t just stick with the first lawyer you find ? shop around and find someone you feel comfortable with. You may be in for a long haul, so it helps if you can find a solicitor you?re happy with.

If you can?t find any local recommendations, always see a solicitor who specialises in Family Law.

You can also find out about Legal Aid and get advice on the Community Legal Advice Helpline on 08345 345 4 345
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Dl1/Directories/UsefulContactsByCategory/Governmentcitizensandrightscontacts/DG_195356

Or search in your area for Community Legal Advisors:
legaladviserfinder.justice.gov.uk/AdviserSearch.do

Co-operative Legal Services offer DIY/Self-Help Divorce packages, as well as a Managed Divorce service. Their fee structure is more transparent and they have a telephone advice line as well as offering really good advice on their website:
www.co-operative.coop/legalservices/family-and-relationships/

You can read advice and search by area for a family lawyer here:
www.resolution.org.uk/

You will also read good advice and find a family lawyer here:
www.divorceaid.co.uk/

Some family law solicitors publish online feedback from clients ? Google solicitors to see if you can find any recommendations or feedback.

Mediation

You will be encouraged to attend mediation. This can help by encouraging discussion about arrangements for children and finance in a structured way in a neutral setting. However, it only works if both parties are willing to reach agreement.

If there has been violence or emotional abuse, discuss this with your solicitor first. Always get legal advice, or at the very least make sure you are aware of your legal rights, before you begin mediation. This is important because while a Mediator should have knowledge of family law, and will often explain family law, they are not there to give tailored legal advice to either party - so it?s important to have that first.

Married or Living Together?

This is a key question, because if you are married, generally speaking you have greater protection when a relationship breaks down.

Legal Issues around marriage/cohabitation and relationship breakdown are explained here:
www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/relationships_e/relationships_living_together_marriage_and_civil_partnership_e/living_together_and_marriage_legal_differences.htm#Ending_a_relationship

www.advicenow.org.uk/living-together/

DirectGov advice on divorce, separation and relationship breakdown:
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Divorceseparationandrelationshipbreakdown/index.htm

Legal Rights and issues around contact are further explained here:
www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/legal.php#children_relationship_breakdown
www.maypole.org.uk/

I found these guides from law firms quite informative and easy to read ? there are others of course:

www.family-lawfirm.co.uk/uploaded/documents/Surviving-Family-Conflict-and-Divorce---2nd-edition.pdf

www.terry.co.uk/hindex.html

Finance

Before you see a family law solicitor, get hold of every single piece of financial information you have access to, and take copies or make notes. Wage slips, P60s, tax returns, employment contracts, pensions and other statements ? savings, current account and mortgages, deeds, rental leases, utility bills, council tax bills, credit statements. Are there joint assets such as a home, pensions, savings, shares?

If you have no access to financial information, or you are aware that assets are being hidden from you, then obviously you will not be able to reach agreement on finances. If there are children, as you cannot divorce without adequate arrangements being agreed on finance and children, you will have to apply for a financial order anyway. If there are no children, and you are unable to agree on finances, you will also have to apply for a financial order (follow the Direct.gov links below). This seeks financial information from both parties going back 12 months. So it is in your interests to act quickly once you have made the decision to divorce.

If you are married, the main considerations of the Family Courts where parties are unable to agree a settlement are (in no particular order of priority):

1.The welfare of any minor children from the marriage.
2.The value of jointly and individually owned property and other assets and the financial needs, obligation and responsibilities of each party.
3.Any debts or liabilities of the parties.
4.Pension arrangements for each of the parties, including future pension values and any value to each of the parties of any benefit they may lose as a result of the divorce.
5.The earnings and earning potential of each of the parties.
6.Standard of living enjoyed during the marriage.
7.The age of the parties and duration of the marriage.
8.Any physical or mental disability of either of the parties.
9.Contributions that each party may have made to the marriage, either financially or by looking after the house and/or caring for the family.

CSA maintenance calculator:
www.csacalculator.dsdni.gov.uk/calc.asp

Handy tax credits calculator:
www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/payments-entitlement/entitlement/question-how-much.htm#7

Handy 5 Minute benefit check, tax and housing benefit calculators:
www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/

CAB Benefits Check:
www.citizensadvice.co.uk/getadvice/benefit-calculator/A2B-Benefit-Calculator/#730

Parenting issues:
www.familylives.org.uk
www.theparentconnection.org.uk

Other Support for Women ? Children, Housing, Domestic Violence
www.womensaid.org.uk/ and refuge.org.uk/ - Helpline 0808 2000 247
www.ncdv.org.uk/ - Helpline 0844 8044 999
www.gingerbread.org.uk/ - Helpline 0808 802 0925
Housing www.england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/families_and_relationships/relationship_breakdown
(Note that there is usually an appropriate link on these websites for England, Wales and Scotland where the law, advice and contact information may differ.

I'm just wondering if he had or was into classic cars before you met him. Has he had the hobby a long time. The other thing is, although you don't have access to where the rest of his earnings go, does he let you know how much he has or not in savings. Just thinking he could have more squirrelled away than you realise. If it turns out you are both only just getting by, given current arguments then yes, it would seem like madness to have another DC.

Thanks all. I think we'll look at some of the ideas everyone has outlined, about how the money is organised and managed. If I can work on him on his seeming acceptance of the idea that the money is ours not his, then this might work. However, SGB's take on it does appear to sum up his viewpoint up to now, but lets hope that this is the shock that he needs to change his ways. If not, I'm looking into my options. He'll be home soon, so we'll see what he has to say. Meanwhile I need to stop DS feeding all his pasta to the Duplo dog ...and the real dog

Hi Open. I think we get by OK with the amount we have, if we ignore the spending money pot. Less worried about that re. another DC than I would be about the attitude. I don't think the point is how much we have, it is how he sees me and my (current) role. I think 33k is enough to have 2 DC on.

I posted earlier about my ex. I wondered, thinking about him again, whether you and the baby are just another hobby to your H. My ex's friends all had the cars, and the motorbikes, then one bought a house, got married and had a baby, then I think my ex thought "oh that looks nice, I think I might get one of those too..."

I worry that your DH doesn't realise that he can't afford his two "hobbies" and only one of them can be sold in the Autotrader.

Hi Weirdalien, I think we are living parralel lives. My H was exactly like yours is now and became worse as soon as I gave up work to look after my youngest DC. During an argument about 4 weeks ago he said that our marriage wasnt working because I wasnt contributing fianancially and he was so pissed off because he couldnt afford to buy clothes for himself, so I replied sell your motorbike or one of the cars, or sell your ipad, iphone laptop that we have. Maybe thats why we havent got much money. You may see from my other posts he is now my STBEXH, as I got so fed up with the constant arguments the griping about money what and where was I spending it on when was I going to go back to work and him being constantly tired,stressed, on his phone or one of his many computers, I told him to leave. Its hard I wont lie and my DCs are sad and playing me up a bit more than usual but I feel a lot happier.

I feel that the accusations of financial abuse here are a bit strong - particularly without hearing the OP's partner's perspective. The OP seems to have made a unilateral decision to remain a SAHM. Her partner pays for almost everything and retains about 10% of his income for himself. Obviously they need to come to an agreement on how to manage finances and what their long term goals are, particularly if they are going to have another child. However, being sole earner isn't what the man signed up for and he probably feels resentful and stressed because of it. Handing over his entire income might be the right thing to do but, at face value, I don't think he's being unreasonable for retaining a small part of it.

I'm a SAHM, was made redundant when I was pregnant with DS. It was always the plan that I would either stay at home and we'd manage for money or I'd work very part time for a bit extra cash.

lydia that doesn't sound quite like a "unilateral decision" to me. And there's no indication that OP's DH is exactly willing to take up the slack if, say, OP was to go back to full-time work. If he thinks she lives "the life of riley" being a SAHM, he obviously doesn't value her contribution at all.

Unless you earn a really good salary, it all goes on childcare anyway!

The point here is that he sees the housekeeping money as "her money", which is ridiculous and wrong.

Hmm - not unilateral lydia. If you see my OP I said that it was always the plan for me to either be a SAHM or work very part time (and that is what I am doing. I work at home, while also doingthe full time childcare and home role).

But sometimes plans don't always follow the reality. There is a problem if he thinks you have the 'life of riley' even if you haven't. It sounds as if he is envious of you being able to do only part time work from home. You are unhappy and he sounds quite resentful. Could you not have some counselling. And then you can both air your grievances.