I'm concerned that I'm a "controlling" "redflag" husband HTF do I change? (long sorry)

[bongopants]

Preamble & Context Ok! short of everyone going she should leave you, you bastard... What do I have to do to change? I did go to see a therapist but he dobbed me in to social services and cause a load of grief at home cos I mentioned that I'd smacked my daughter once, left a bruise and I was freaked at what I done. We had three months of interviews, enquiries etc before they found there was no case to be found.

I've got anger issues, I'm quick tempered and can be quite obnoxious when I put my mind to it. I like things to be orderly and disciplined and I'm marginally obsessive compulsive. I had a really really shit upbringing crappy broken home, alky stepfather, cold violent mother, distant everything. To top all of that I have a sex compulsion too.

I'm pissed off with myself cos I feel that I'm fucking up my wife's life and my kids lives and I don't want to. I recently got some self help books but they seemed overly "Christian" and I'm a Jewish atheist.

The therapist I saw appeared to talk a lot of shit about "comming to terms", "understanding" and other such stuff. I don't want to come to terms I want a bloody fix for myself. I have considered drugs (prescription one of course but I won't rule out other sorts).

Even I annoy and irritate myself. Some of the things I've read on here about controlling, red-flag and paranoid make me think of myself. I have a deep inner worry that DW cheats on me, there's no evidence for it, we get jiggy together three or four times a week. I do mither about it but as she points out we do it more than most couple with two children under the age of 8.

I do get very narky when she doesn't answer the phone, which is stupid and its getting worse - I'm becoming way too needy at times.

Some other bits and pieces, three years ago I had a nervous breakdown and tried to top myself after psych services cleared me as no danger I've been feeling deeply fucked up inside and dunno what the hell to do.

Any helpful pointers on how to stop being a controlling knobhead, being needy, and/or a fucking dick whose gonna ruin his marriage and children would be greatly appreciated.

I agree that you need to keep looking for a therapist who suits you. Then you need to open up and allow that therapist to guide you through the causes of the issues you carry so that you can deal with them. That is the only way you can change your current and future behaviour. There is no other way to help yourself. Moving out of the family home isn't going to fix anything on its own because you will still be the same person.

in straightforward terms of dealing with anger, do you keep a journal? writing things down each day helps because little things that aggravate don't build up into a raging torrent. Like, traffic is a nightmare, work day goes to shit, DW doesn't answer the phone, end result is you explode. get into the habit of jotting down little things like the traffic jam, what the office idiot said etc. just off load the day to day crap to start with.

porcamiseria I think he fully realises he was wrong to hit his child

I'm not convinced that he does. Yes, he thinks it was a 'mistake' but he still doesn't accept the gravity of it. If he took full responsibility, he would accept that he and he alone is responsible for social services being involved with his family.

Instead he blames the therapist!

I get the feeling that I wouldn;t like to take the chance here on being so understanding where the OP is concerned. None of us are professionals in the field he needs therefore I'd actually say no more.

thank you for compliments

I used to have crippling panic attacks (wouldn't wish on worst enemy etc) and a book helped me to see that my body was actually my ally; it was swinging into gear to protect me when it thought there was danger afoot. I found that very encouraging - because so many symptoms of distress can seem like the enemy, out to get you, piling on the pressure when you're already feeling terrible. This new info helped me to employ techniques eg controlling my breathing (steady and deep, instead of shallow and erratic/panting) - a very simple but effective technique, as so many of them are - to send appropriate messages to my adrenals that they didn't have to swing into action on my behalf, thanks all the same. That felt good, that 'we' could work together for the best outcome for me. Also that I had some (a lot, actually) control over it. I have never had a panic attack since, when at one stage it was a serious disability. so that was one triumph ticked off the list

In the same way, I think our psyche strives for health and won't tolerate buried distress/damage for too long - it starts popping out and you can't stop it. Buried distress can manifest in some very unpleasant ways but the flashing beacon is for our ultimate good iyswim (imo): time to face this. I don't mean indulge it (eg the anger) but face it, work with it with appropriate support, mindful to protect your family first and foremost. As pp's have said, your breakdown probably signified that the pressure of all that buried damage got too great and out it spilled. Unwelcome, because we want to keep that shit buried firmly in the past and want to be 'normal' and live a 'normal' life without having to pay heed to what was bad enough at the time [the damage was done], unwilling to admit it into our daily, adult lives. But it doesn't work like that - fortunately, or unfortunately, whichever way you look at it.

CP, I totally agree

I have been acccused of dabbling in a bit of armchair psychology myself, but this bloke is dangerous and I would not be so arrogant as to assume I understood where he was coming from or what he needed

he hasn't been back, so it's probably an academic exercise anyway

an academic exercise of (possibly) cutting off his wife's sole source of emotional support

fucking scary stuff, and not something I would be so blase to be part of

let's hope he doesn't feel justified in another "outpouring of distress" when his daughter is within an arm's reach

gah. So the message to people who are trying to fight sexual compulsions and anger problems is 'dont' bother, you people are liars, manipulators and irredeemable'

ghastly. Truly ghastly. The world doesn't split neatly into the nice and the nasty. Some people acknowledge their behaviour and try to change it. They may well be braver people than those who having had easy lives (I know I know not all of you on here....) or supposedly 'perfect' personalities don't need to bother doing anything but point the finger at others they find wanting.

The 'judges' on here have appointed themselves as arbiters of human worth. They've decided the OP is unworthy when in fact he is pretty rare in having detected something very wrong with himself and tried to change it.

No the message to people who have serious mental health problems is you need to get real life help, there aren't any quick fixes and mums net can't (and shouldn't) really try and diagnose/treat you. There were pages and pages of helpful signposting and support before the amateur psychology and the pronouncing that he was to be "given the benefit of the doubt" which was expected to mean that we are not meant to point out the possibility he is here to manipulate his wife who is a user of mumsnet and what had led us to suspect that so that he can explain it if it isn't that.

I apologise for being out of the thread for the last day, it was Yom Kippur yesterday and I was at Shul all day. Springydaff and garlicnutty wow those are totally amazing eye openers for me. I know that I haven't explicitly said that I am responsible - I am, I know it, I don't like it and I want my behaviours to stop.

I don't want to cause pain and upset to Mrsbongopants and to bongopants major and minor. I know that it doesn't get across the depths of the feelings that this all causes. I'm not a genius writer and I don't know how to translate into the written word that what the two of you have said (and others as well) have struck a chord, hit a nerve.

Some things I do know, I can't do this by myself, I have to respect my wife and childrens feelings, what they want more over what I want and that we all do whats as best as it can be for all of us to try to make things better/right/resolved.

Its really difficult to find the right course of action when I don't really know or understand myself let alone verbalise it in to something coherent cogent.

The thing I do know, the last three years of misery hell I've put them through I dont ever to do again, how I get to fix that. I have no idea. Googling therapy got me somewhere that wasn't right, I wasn't presented with other alternatives, which many of you above have given.

I'm ashamed of what I've done and I'm off to think further I promise I will be back to contribute further. And yes Mrs bongo pants is reading this but I do not want to isolate her from help support from the community here and finally yes I am an abuser

Well he's not been back Offred so I expect he's got the message to b*gger off and turn into a saint overnight.

oops xpost with OP!

FGS, how is that helpful domestic? No-one has said that at all.

Op- I'm very glad you came back and I want you to understand that I do really feel for you but I'm trying to look at the full picture and am concerned about making sure that you all get the right help.

Honestly, the way you get to make a good start on fixing things is to move out of the family home rather than expect your wife and DC to accept your rages and moodswings - and indeed to be even more accepting and understanding if you become aggressive, because you are 'trying to change'.

Thing is, heavy-duty therapy is not easy. You will, at times, feel worse before you feel better and this means you may behave worse. It's very hard to live with someone who has MH/behaviour issues, who is angry and unhappy, especially if that person's anger and misery sometimes shows itself as unkindness. You will need to focus on yourself to get better, but that doesn't mean that your family need to walk on eggshells round you constantly. Your family does not and should not revolve around you, so the kindest and only really decent thing you can do for them at the moment is to remove yourself while you recover.

And I think knowing and understanding yourself is the place to start. Your behaviours will not just stop, you will have to work very hard at stopping them and changing how you behave.

Respect is the only appropriate agency really here, anger management is not appropriate for abusers, neither is standard therapy, although they might help you work through some of those childhood issues they're not going to tackle the thoughts, beliefs and behaviour patterns which underlie the abuse. It might be that you need a combination of things but I would absolutely start with Respect if you're serious about changing.

I also agree it would be best for the DC and your DW if you stay apart from them while you work on this stuff, because it's going to bring stuff to the surface and make you feel more vulnerable and more likely to lash out in the meantime.

Yes, totally agree respect is the place to start.

The right course of action is going to require patience and practice. And a multi-pronged attack. Possiby to include:

antidepressants
care with nutrition (helps hugely with mood)
exercise regime of sorts (another mood regulator)
talking therapy - you really need to work at this. the first therapist may not be the right one, but on the whole thing of them as a tool to help you fix yourself rather than "good" or "shit".
RL support - someone other than your wife

At some point you will need to accept that you had a crap childhood. It's not fair, it's painful and you deserved much better. But the truth is that it was crap. Once you accept it for how it was, the moving on can begin. Acceptance can take time. Try to accept a little bit of it today, and a little bit more tomorrow. And so on.

Don't rip yourself off. You have already lost out on your childhood, but there is hope for your future, and for your kids' lives.
Your kids will probably forgive you pretty much anything, and if you can learn to verbalise your regret, and your love and commitment to them, you can help them to heal too.

Time to crack on OP. Maybe read the Virtues Project. It's a very simple guide to learning to treat ourselves and others with respect in order to live in harmony.

Domestic goddess - you really are missing the point. The criticism levelled at OP is because many posters recognise and have experienced the damage and abuse his family are experiencing.

The concern is that, even if he is acknowledging he is abusive (as he has just done) and is aware he has deep problems to sort out, that his family are being affected in the meantime. Therefore the best solution is for him to go.

Posters aren't demonising him. Or saying it is hopeless or that he is the devil's spawn. But that if he's truly trying to save himself and his family, he should sort himself out away from the family. I personaly do have compassion and sympathy for him. But I am more worried about his kids than him.

OP glad you came back and are beginning to take responsibility. Please read all posts and see them for what they are - even the harshest ones - messages from the heart, trying to help you to protect your family.

OP I'm glad you've come back and acknowledged that you are an abuser.

You will have to do a lot of very intense work on yourself if this is to change sincerely and permanently.

But you need to leave. Your DW doesn't want you gone because she has lived with you through abuse and has been conditioned to want you there. Think; if she was capable of making the right choices where you're concerned she'd have booted your arse out the day you put your hands on her child.

It's very easy to say "well I'll get help" and think that there's no reason to go. But until you reboot your personality and behaviours they will STILL be living in an abusive environment which is not acceptable.

I'm sure it's a lot easier to listen to the posters saying poor you, don't listen to the mean, nasty people. But none of us is qualified to give psychological advice and certainly shouldn't do! Especially if they're encouraging you to stay with the woman and children you've admitted being abusive to.

Get help. Get better. But in the meantime, get out.

And good luck.

I really want to thank springdaff and garlic

as you posts have been wise, tough and helpful

I am really upset by some of the responses on here.

REALLY. how people can write such stuff to another member of the human race who is clearly suffering. disappointing

and OP, good luck to you. Take the good advice, short term and long term

It wont be easy, but I acknowledge you for facing up to the issues

good luck

Hi bongopants

Here is some information about help that is available within the Jewish community:

Jewish Marriage Council 0208 203 6311

JAMI (Jewish Aid for Mental Illness) 0208 458 2223 or 0208 731 7319

Miyad Jewish Phone Crisis line 0208 457 5811 or 0800 652 9249

Jewish Women's Aid 0808 801 0500

There are other sources of help that I don't know about but I'm sure you can find them by searching.

Yom Kippur is about thinking what has happened during the past year, whether it has been good or bad. You've got a brilliant chance here to make this coming (Jewish) new year completely different. I agree with previous posters, that you need to leave for at least a few months. Surely it's worth investing that time into trying to sort yourself out in order to improve your relationship with your wife and children in the long term. You will be happier if you get help now rather than wait for another crisis to happen.

Good luck!

OP - make a list of the support services posted on your thread. Then work through them one by one, researching them and contacting them, if appropriate. Get the ball rolling.

I say this because when posting in a state of high distress, it is sometimes hard to register concrete advice and pointers - we are in too much of a state. It is very easy at times like this to cry out for instant comfort - this is natural when the pain is so bad and we are crawling the walls, desperate. Steady yourself, work through the excellent list of support services posted on here. There are no quick fixes - that point has been laboured on here - but a different lifestyle beckons in more ways than one. Do the groundwork now so you have something in the tank when the next crisis looms.

I hope G*d calmed you and your family yesterday.

of is it G-d (I forget, sorry)

If you accept that you are an abuser, then you must see that you need to remove yourself from the situation you are in at the moment. Why would you not?

Springydaff - well maybe...but he is an atheist!! (To be fair, I understand why he says 'Jewish atheist' as I am one too. You can be Jewish as in emersed in the culture but not believe in God - though some people think that's odd. But I think people are barking up the wrong tree if they think going to synagogue on Yom Kippur means there was any real worship or peace going on).

I think OP needs to think about the fact that most posters believe he should leave the family home, while also realising people do have compassion for him and he has been given good advice and great resources.