I'm concerned that I'm a "controlling" "redflag" husband HTF do I change? (long sorry)

[bongopants]

Preamble & Context Ok! short of everyone going she should leave you, you bastard... What do I have to do to change? I did go to see a therapist but he dobbed me in to social services and cause a load of grief at home cos I mentioned that I'd smacked my daughter once, left a bruise and I was freaked at what I done. We had three months of interviews, enquiries etc before they found there was no case to be found.

I've got anger issues, I'm quick tempered and can be quite obnoxious when I put my mind to it. I like things to be orderly and disciplined and I'm marginally obsessive compulsive. I had a really really shit upbringing crappy broken home, alky stepfather, cold violent mother, distant everything. To top all of that I have a sex compulsion too.

I'm pissed off with myself cos I feel that I'm fucking up my wife's life and my kids lives and I don't want to. I recently got some self help books but they seemed overly "Christian" and I'm a Jewish atheist.

The therapist I saw appeared to talk a lot of shit about "comming to terms", "understanding" and other such stuff. I don't want to come to terms I want a bloody fix for myself. I have considered drugs (prescription one of course but I won't rule out other sorts).

Even I annoy and irritate myself. Some of the things I've read on here about controlling, red-flag and paranoid make me think of myself. I have a deep inner worry that DW cheats on me, there's no evidence for it, we get jiggy together three or four times a week. I do mither about it but as she points out we do it more than most couple with two children under the age of 8.

I do get very narky when she doesn't answer the phone, which is stupid and its getting worse - I'm becoming way too needy at times.

Some other bits and pieces, three years ago I had a nervous breakdown and tried to top myself after psych services cleared me as no danger I've been feeling deeply fucked up inside and dunno what the hell to do.

Any helpful pointers on how to stop being a controlling knobhead, being needy, and/or a fucking dick whose gonna ruin his marriage and children would be greatly appreciated.

My Ex posted on MN to try to cut me off from the deserved boot up the backside help and support I was receiving here. He even had a sex change and posted as a wronged DW inverting our story. It was mind bending stuff! Happily the MN collective told him I should leave so I did!

If MrsBongo is reading this, best wishes to you and the little ones. We know there is plenty more to this tale. I hope you have read the Rights charter on the EA thread. Come and join us (disguised if you like!) We'll look out for someone in dark glasses and a funny wig

Dear dw, your private territory has been eroded, and am really worried about that as its Not a good sign.

I hope you feel you can still have an outlet on here as its an amazing place to get support, clarity & wisdom (as well as alot of snorting/ laughing into your tea!). Whatever happens with this thread please be aware we are still here for you now, in the future, under diff names etc & that hasn't disappeared because of this thread even though it may currently feel like it.

Quite frankly I am not sure what the motivations are, I don't know your reality, but I do know that the behaviours from your h, dont seem to allow much room for your needs & feelings & choices. It may well be to close down a really strong source of support for you, & I am really worried for you. and quite horrified by your h, who is either so self obsessed & driven by mh issues he is treading all over your space & mind, or he's a manipulative abuser who is doing this on purpose to keep control. Either way, not nice for you & as lots of people here have said, creates emotional abuse for you & your children.

ime it can be very hard to find support and I sympathise with you taking any opportunity to try to get your issues out. I would see that posting on MN was one way and you took a stab.

Join the club of the severely damaged adults who have been unable to resolve childhood abuse in the normal run of things. There are a lot of us out here - a community. It is 'good' to meet others in the same boat - makes you feel more normal, a viable human being, albeit a damaged one, but viable nonetheless.

I applaud your honesty and can certainly see your desperation. I odn't think you are garnering sympathy by mentioning the self-harm. Sometimes, things can be so bad that we can't talk about them in a straight line - a combination of unbearable/overwhelmed and confused - but approach things sideways, or any way, desperate to get it out and address it. I believe you are sincere about addressing your issues and you are desperate to do so but don't know how - hence posting.

I appreciate you may not have liked the terms your therapist used - therapy can be pretty jargony and it can get on my nerves too. You are desperate and the phrases you mentioned can sound wet and soft. As others are saying, you're in this for the long haul and there won't be any quick fixes, as tempting as it is to hope for a quick fix (I still do and I've been at the recovery game for ooh 30 years?). You have to click with your therapist though - it's akin to eg a romantic relationship, in that you wouldn't go out with/marry any old anybody, regardless what they looked like or even if they ticked all the boxes. Can you get access again to the amazing therapist you saw through psych services? I'm heartened to hear you've had some of the good stuff and hope you get more of it.

If you make the link with Respect you will very probably be introduced into the community I mentioned above. eg you seem in a very good place to address your issues through the 12-step programme, which favours brutal honesty and I do see that in your posts. It is a marvellous community and I do recommend it - you will very probably find a good fit (and many like you) in eg a sex addicts 12-step programme and also self-harm groups etc. There is a lot out there and it is not hard to find once you step through the portal.

I used the term 'recovery' and this is what it is called in the community I mentioned. People often use the term 'recovery' in relation to recovery from addictions but it also covers all areas of recovering from a severely damaging childhood. You are not alone, not by a long chalk (unfortunately) but you will find solace on your journey. Jargon again but it is a journey - a very painful one at times (which seems so unfair considering what we have already experienced in our lives to date) but also wonderful in its way.

It is likely your relationship with your wife is codependent. Start stepping forward eg through contacting Respect who will give you and your family concrete advice and support to know where to go from here. Get your GP back onside (if s/he isn't already) and pump for support. YOu are articulate, use it, push for what you need and don't give up.

I wish you well OP.

I disagree Maryz throughout the entire thread he has been completely unwilling to take ANY responsibility for his actions. He has sneered at posters, at outside attempts to help him, he has evaded questions until he no longer could and has not ONCE said he would take ANY suggestions onboard.

He was looking for help and he got it, but he hasn't actually acknowledged it or said he was going to do anything about it.

I don't think people are nasty, just very aware of the depths to which an abuser will sink.

Furthermore, I think it's a bit out of order to label people as "nasty" when a lot of them have posted about their own awful experiences.

Seriously Mary, it is you who is being utterly unhelpful with that post.

The huge majority of posters are trying to help OP - and by default his wife and daughters.

Just because we are saying very tough, hardline things, it does not mean we are not desperately trying to help.

The message is this: Yes, from everything you have said, you are abusive. The best and only thing you can do right now is take responsibility, get proper help and above all leave the family home because your behaviour is damaging to your children.

And 'nasty' is such a childish word - one used on Mumsnet for peope speaking plainly, directly and, yes, harshly.

Bongo, I agree with springydaffs's post at 10:13 (three or four above this).
Please seek advice from Respect and follow it.

I don't see evidence of manipulation in your posts. For all I know, you could be playing games - and equally, you could be making a courageous move towards reparation. I, for one, shan't be making any judgements on that until Mrs Bongo has posted and we see whether your story progresses. I hope, for your sake and your family's, it does progress constructively.

Concerning domestic abuse, I am more sinned against than sinning. But I have been abusive. The differentiators between me and my abusers are that I understood my words & actions hurt them, and that I wanted not to hurt people. Easy to write; not at all easy to do. People without experience of this can't grasp the complexity of the task; they're more fortunate than they realise.

Short-term, it's not actually all that hard to stop playing the abuse game. Pay attention to that little kick inside you: you know, just before you lose it? Head it off with some slow, deep breaths - silence is OK, you can count to ten - wait for it, and breathe through it. It dissipates. Amazing
Anger's OK, too. After your slow breaths, see whether you're still angry - you might, instead, be disappointed or confused or sad - then just say the words out loud: "I feel angry/sad/etc."

I am sorry to hear about the self-harm. You can try breathing through this, too: it works for some; you need to use the breather to remind yourself of your human worth (to yourself, your wife and child, the world in general) and to promptly distract yourself from the storm of negative thoughts in your head. A cold shower is less harmful than a soldering iron - or how about soldering some metal instead??

Assertiveness training will be useful to you both - and DD, if she's old enough. Mrs Bongo: you're not responsible for your husband's recovery. Co-dependence is a complicated thing; you're probably both co-dependent. Other posters have recommended books on it.

OP

I am also sorry to read some of the feedback you have received.

I read a human being, who is hurting , hurting others, and feels desperately scared and trapped.

The fact that you self harming, and have attempted suicide worries me. This is serious. I assume you have seen your GP????

gosh, where to start?

I think you need a GOOD therapist, a really experienced and decent one. They can work wonders, TRUST ME

and check out some of the books on here.

I wish you every luck, we all deserve happiness

you know that cheesy old adage "learning to love yourself is the greatest love of al" well its true, you need professional help to face up to the issues from the past, and accept them, and complete with them.

you need to think how you can mitigate hurt during this process. everyone says move out, given your wife is only earner and you are carer that might not be that easy right?

GOOD LUCK

Porca. You seriously think it is good for children to be around the behaviour that is described on this thread by the OP?

On some level, the DW is different, being an adult with supposed choice.

I dont know, I genuinely dont have a handle on how far he is damaging his family by this... I dont know

I think it is unfair to level accusations at me that I'm not giving the benefit of the doubt. I did, I said I was prepared to be wrong and I outlined why I had come to the conclusion I had so that the op could actually understand and properly address what I was saying. I don't interpret "giving the benefit of the doubt" as not pointing out that something like what I said is a very real (unfortunately) possibility in this situation and I don't see how it would help to not point out that it is a possibility.

I also think it should be fairly well known on this board what some of my experiences have been and I don't think this thread has been anything even close to attacking the op. The vast majority have been very supportive even if the op didnt want that kind of support when he posted but as I said I don't think support should come at the cost of the wife and dcs.

I think at some stage to get better the op will have to recognise what is being said about quick fixes, recovery and responsibility. He will also have to accept some help and support that maybe is not what he'd like or what he might choose or what he is in control over. It isn't the anger that is necessarily the problem specifically as yes, feelings are necessary, it is where that anger is currently being directed - it seems to be being wielded as a weapon and currently the op's not receiving any support for it, partly because he has sabotaged support in various ways.

Please think about going to a&e and asking for crisis help op. I don't think anyone doesn't feel for you but ultimately no-one can help you if you won't help yourself.

to get better the op will have to recognise what is being said about quick fixes, recovery and responsibility

This is true, Offred, but the quick fixes can work short-term. They are really helpful ime, as the discovery of different ways to do things (handle emotions, mainly) provides a good, positive stepping stone to deeper work. When you do things differently you get different results. Quite a revelation for anyone who, like me, has spent half a lifetime locked into rigid behavioural patterns that feel like truths.

It was a long, long time before I accepted I'll always be 'in recovery'. We can learn how the better half live, and to live better, but we'll never un-know what we knew first. It's probably unhelpful to stress this during the main stages of change. The majority of people in my groups still believe in "afterwards", as I did. Fact is, we're all in an ongoing process. The picture of how this process works becomes clearer as we engage with it: when we lose our binary ideas of good/bad; before/after; we become more 'authentic' and finally understand that life is a fluid process - not a goal. I'm not too sure it's possible to really get this in the early stages.

Sorry for talking over you, OP.

Bongo, as you've benefited from good, quality psychotherapy you probably realise that this: After my breakdown ... I was so angry at myself for being angry and what I had become happened because the breakdown was actually a breaking-down of the persona you'd constructed to contain the damages you'd suffered. Many breakdowns should really be called breakouts! The crappy old truism that 'a breakdown is an opportunity' reflects that we're better able to deal with shit when it's out in the open. It would be nice not to have to break down in order to get to A but, well, it's happened and here you are ... welcome to Point B!

[are you angry or are you just angry with your wife and children]

Excellent point, Nailak!

But garlic, those aren't quick fixes because they don't fix things. They are part of a process of change.

I'd be interested to see if OP comes back and thanks springy and garlic for their insights, or whether he sees them them as "talking shit"and a complete waste of his precious time too

And I'm not saying there will ever be a fix (quite the contrary, I agree a lifetime process) but I don't think the op has reached a point where he recognises the problems and wants to work for change because he hasn't actually said anything about it, only he is sorry, I suspect he means sorry people "got" hurt, not sorry he hurt them.

Like he seems to be saying it is the therapist who was wrong to report him hitting his child not that he was wrong to hit the child.

If he tries to do work on that misidentified problem it is not going to help is it? The first stage therefore has to be self-awareness and recognition of your own responsibility. However if you are very depressed and suicidal I can see why that might be something extremely dangerous which you would need very strong support to do. On the flip side of the thing...

I'm not being dramatic saying go to a&e and try for crisis help. He is suicidal, self-harming, very unwell, going to a&e is often the best way to get real help and I do think this is a crisis. I don't think we need to typecast the op as wholly either victim or perpetrator in order to say that. There are very complex problems and dynamics going on here, MN cannot help with that, there is no fix; quick or otherwise. Real real life help is undoubtedly needed and honesty about the extent of the problem.

My post about the danger of the post for the wife was for her benefit not the op's, I think he's beyond peer support tbh.

They're not 'quick fixes' but they are a dramatic surge of change, which is encouraging when you have been trammelling through the same shit for ever and suddenly you see things differently, something falls off, if you like; there is a big shift. You need these to keep you going, otherwise it would be one long and dreary road with nothing but pain. There are some marvellous insights along the way and you do often think that, although life can be very painful, there are some extraordinary benefits - of a life well-lived, 'properly' lived somehow. You wouldn't volunteer for it in a million years because it's too painful but the benefits are extraordinary. I know that sounds poncey though.

Springy - [like]

I've nothing against going to A&E when you're desperate, Offred, but I'd caution against expecting much from it. They sent me away with a leaflet. Three times. GP was better.

I think he fully realises he was wrong to hit his child

Haven't read whole thread but this doesn't sound like something that can be fixed by books. Or quickly. The key is finding a decent therapist/psychiatrist/counsellor that you respect and can work with. Therapy's and therapists vary so massively.

I'm not usually a massive fan of CBT (not that I know much about different branches of therapy - certainly not an expert), but if you're wanting to move on stop getting stuck thinking about things and if being angry is a pattern you have got into it may well help, as suggested upthread. Certainly worth looking into.

Personally I think it's optimistic that you recognise that you are being controlling and needy. First steps and all that. Good luck.

spingy

OP search for a therapist non stop until you find one you can connect with and talk to easily.

Deciding on therapy is like dangling from a branch in a tree, then falling because you quite simply can not hold on any more.
But when you fall (open up to someone) you realise that it wasn't actually that far to the ground, and you didn't get hurt.

I think you know you're capable of hurting those you love, and it has frightened you.

Good, because this is the kick up the arse you need.
I had a terrible childhood, i've tried to face it, but because a lot of the elements are still active, damn toxic parents i have just had to accept it all and move on. I find that some things leak through (i used to hit my kids because thats how i thought children were disciplined) now i am vehemently anti smacking.
Nothing i could think of worse than hurting your own child :(

I simply took everything i wished for as a child, and made it into a reality for my DC's as far as i was able. My upbringing became a lesson in how definately not to parent!

I understand what you said about not being aggressive before your breakdown. You had the strength to bottle it all up thats why. Now its out there, and you're scrabbling to put it back in the box, to build up till you have another BD. Why don't you embrace it, accept that shitty things happened to you, and resolve to make things different for your DW and DC.
First step will be counselling that you stick to.
I also thought it was 'shit' because the counsellor gave me no feedback other than umm and ahh. He was the wrong counsellor for me, thats all.
Your DW has stayed with you thus far putting up with your shit.
So if you move out to give her some space and safety from your temper, she will support you i am in no doubt of that, especially as she knows the end result will be a happier you and therefore a happier family.

Oh and i'm in no doubt the reason she doubts or doesn't trust you (the phone/nagging issue) is because she feels she doesn't know you and what you are capable of. I bet you are also critical, when aggressive. This makes her feel 'not good enough' and of course someone feeling like that will think you are capable of cheating...