Found out that DH has been sending messages on Adultwork for years. Gutted and so unsure of what to do/believe

[SoUnsureNow]

This morning, my bus to work didn't turn up. We live rurally and another wasn't due for over two hours, so I went back home to look up the online train timetable for an alternative. I picked up DP's iPad from the kitchen table - and the screen was open to a message inbox on Adultwork, an advertising site for sex-work and escorting. It was DH's account. There were possibly 50 or so sent messages in there, dating back to late 2006 (a year before we got together) and right up to some dated only last week. Even more sickeningly, some of them were titled 'Bareback?', so this is obviously what he's been asking for. I couldn't read the actual messages, the account had automatically timed out so I could just see the last page viewed/inbox home.

When he got out of the shower I asked him what he was playing at. He claims that it's all him just messing around - that he gets bored working from home and being on his own all day, so he created a profile and sends the odd message on and off to "create a bit of fun and excitement" for himself during the day. He likes the anticipation of asking for a meet (escort appointment, I suppose?) with a special request and then waiting to see what the woman he's messaged replies to his request. He swears that he's never, ever bought sex, has never once met up with any of the women he messages during our relationship, would never put our relationship or my health at risk by having sex with women from Adultwork.

When I'm a bit bored at work, I might go and watch a funny video or two on Youtube or read the news on the BBC website. I don't create profiles on sex-buying sites/dating sites and message people to see what they send back.

I asked him to log me in to the account so I could read the messages he's been sending and receiving. I just wanted to see whether there was anything really incriminating there, like actual arrangements ot appointments, or post-appointment messages which would make it clear he's been buying sex. He refused, saying that even if there was nothing of that sort there, I'd still just think what I wanted to think.

Even though him saying this makes part of me almost certain that I'd find exactly what I think is there, my gut still believes him that he was just messing around online and hasn't ever taken it further. I don't know which is most likely. I don't know whether my 'gut' is just trying to get me to protect what I have rather than believe the worst.

Please hold my hand. I've been a mess all day. I don't have any family up here and not even one friend and not even an acquaintance, really - we relocated several hundred miles away from where I call 'home' last year, when DH was promoted: I sold my single-girl flat to help buy our house, packed in my (good, well-paid) job, left my friends and family behind. I have nowhere to go if I decide it's over. My job now is several paygrades below my old one and I can't afford to pay the mortgage on our house plus the rent on a new flat/even a room for myself.

I almost wish I hadn't seen what I've seen. I keep on thinking how could it happen, my bus is usually so reliable, why did it have to be AWOL today?! Stupid, I know. Our relationship is great - I'd have said near-perfect. We have a lovely home and a pretty carefree lifestyle. We rarely argue, and then only short rows about domestic or silly stuff. We'd decided to start TTC in the next couple of months. We still have sex most days: he can't claim that he sends sexy messages because he needs an outlet for his sex drive.

That's all, really.

Offred Lord, I'd never say it was endorsed!

Just that it isn't illegal. The old maxim generally holds: that which is not forbidden is allowed ( or nullum crimen sine lege).

Actually, I think you & AnyFucker are right it probably would be a moral issue.
But once again, note that the greatest moral obloquy is reserved for the prostitutes (women) rather than those who use their services. I think that's wrong.

Would a male GP be struck off for going to a prostitute? Unlikely. They don't necessarily strike off sex-offenders.

OMC I think it was carmen not AF who said what you quoted.

You're right.
I've just got into the habit - bad for both of us - of agreeing with AnyFucker .

Looking again, I've elided both "character" comments.

Apologies to both.

onemorechap
Being a prostitute is not like having any normal second job at all, even if it is legal.

I am pretty sure the NMC would not be ok with it. Also. I don't think many patients would be happy with it either, knowing that a prostitute was caring for them. It would not seem professional. Not saying I necessarily agree but just saying.

ElisabethAlice 'Prostitutes are vile'

I think the responses to ElisabethAlice help prove my theory! I think that some women try to excuse the prostitute and put all the blame on the client as a slightly Freudian way of coming to terms with the issue- that she is jealous of the prostitute and seeks to resolve the situation by learning to identify with the prostitute. It's strange, for example that everyone will pitch in about the huge STI risk associated with prostitute use, but of course the man is the dirty bastard for catching the STI, not the 'professional' for working while infected! Double standards.

Yes, prostitute are vile. If someone was a drug user, people would be quick to say that drug dealers are vile and play a huge part in the users problem, not that the dealer is a victim, who risks being attacked by desperate druggies seeking a fix, or prosecuted for doing a horrible job they really don't have a choice in because they are desperate etc, etc. If men didn't use the service, it wouldn't be there, but if there weren't women willing to do it, it wouldn't either. And not all hookers are poor little victims to be pitied.

Omc- re: double standards. Not in my book. I was working to the example given is all.

Also as far as the law goes prostitution, when looked at holistically, is not legal. That Latin expression fails to grasp the complexities of the law that are involved here. It is often about balancing and can't strictly be assumed something is "not forbidden is allowed".

*if sorry not is.

"prostitutes are vile" "prostitutes spread STI's not clients" "women are jealous of prostitues"

Are you serious Catinthebox? Sounds like something a misogynist man would say.

PretzelTime

I'm very serious about every thing I say, when taken in context. Since you are clearly directing your reply at me whilst quoting things I have not written, I will take it you are misunderstanding me.

Prostitutes are vile. So are the men who use them. So too are the people who enable both. Prostitutes do spread STI's. So do the men who use them and anyone else who engages in any risky activity, knowing that they have an STI or knowing that they are at high risk of one (or many) some are just unlucky. Some women are jealous of prostitutes. Some think they are vile. Some pity them. Some are jealous of them and try to rationalise that by attempting to empathise and identify with them. As I have said, all these opinions, actions and feelings are unique to the individual experiencing them.

I think it's a very interesting subject and one that you can have a lot of interesting debates about, but it always comes down to the same thing- people, mainly women, seeking to validate the 'poor prostitute, bad punter' stereotype. Anything that doesn't fit in with that fantasy gets shoved under the label 'misogyny.' So in a fair and reasonable debate you have to consider misandry too. Some men hate women, some women hate men. Some- not all, as in everything. I think it would be more useful to the women who have found their partners using these 'services' to take a balanced view of the whole subject. The man they have given years of their life to might not be a filthy woman abuser. He might have made a mistake. He might have problems himself. The prostitute involved might not be a victim, she might be the abuser, taking money of and degrading a vulnerable man. There are as many different scenarios as there are people.

Sorry catinthebox, I don't see how the prostitute is the one doing the degrading? Unless of course we're going into the realms of punters licking boots and having 8 inch heels whopped up their ass which is more fetish.

The men here are choosing to cheat, requesting bareback and risking knowingly their own health predominantly from women in less than desirable circumstances. This isn't pretty woman. Think of all the brothels where women have been forced into it, brought from overseas with the promises of job to be turned into sex slaves. Are these women vile also?

I think it is possible that some prostitutes are predatory aggressors and some punters are very damaged but I still think that there is a much greater level of (free) choice involved in buying sex than selling it and the fact that the majority of prostitutes come from groups which are shown to be more economically vulnerable in society - women etc blows the "evil" prostitutes argument out of the water for me.

I think misandry is common in female prostitutes; either being what leads them to prostitution or as a result of their experiences and with male punters I imagine the same thing is true as far as misogyny goes. It isn't always overt sometimes it can be quite subversive even just being maladjusted views about relationships or gender issues.

*having

Without speaking to the individual women it's impossible to say- I imagine some are, again at one end of the scale you'll have women who think it will be easy money for something they don't mind doing, whether or not it turns out to be different to what they imagined isn't the issue at that stage. At the other there are women who are bullied, abused etc and have no choice.

Every scenario is different, you can only say some, not all, and you can't mix and match- the women on the site mentioned are not eastern european sex slaves. If the OP 's partner wants to negotiate unprotected sex with another consenting adult for money, then the issue to the OP is his infidelity and risk taking, not some imagined third world hooker!

We don't even know the men here. If you spoke to them they might have a different version of events. Why is it taken that the man, without hearing his POV must be lying? Are we saying that all men are liars, because thats misandry at work! Maybe he's telling the truth and doesn't want to show her the account because he feels embarrased? The posters who are asking for advice and opinions deserve a balanced view.

As for the men being degraded, a lot of men use prostitutes because they have difficulty forming functioning relationships. You could have a man who has suffered sexual abuse (or any other kind), feels shamed by his body and needs and turns to what he sees as a legitimate service (perhaps he's vulnerable because he has a low IQ or aspergers....maybe he doesn't have any idea of some of the issues that may be involved with CSW) A tacky sexual encounter that leaves him £40 out of pocket and with genital warts is degrading and damaging to him, whilst the hooker might well be laughing all the way to the bank! I'm not saying that is every case, clearly not, but in some cases it is and it's part of the wider issue. It's not the case either to say that every man who makes an appointment with an escort is going to be sexually abusing a pimped out abuse victim who is so miserable she wants to die, but thats what it gets turned into again and again!

I think it's fair to say most women who do it may have quite a backstory, I for one would not call them vile. They are risking their health and their lives with random men, think how many murders of prostitutes there have been, the fact that most have encountered some violence. I can see how misandry is common....it's well known that women who have been abused, been in care and had a very hard time end up on this path. They are women like you and I, some may say like their job....but you know what? That's probably a front to show to judgemental women calling them vile. The men who seek them out, use them for their own enjoyment, cheat, tell lies and play roulette with their health should be frowned upon here, it's Misguided anger towards the prostitute in my opinion.

Wish people would stop trying to psychoanalyse these women. A couple of my friends are prostitues. They are people just like us, working just like us.

I don't think anyone is actually angry at the prostitute. And the mens behaviour is debateable- to pay for sex with another consenting adult is fine as is choosing to take risks with your own health, as long as you know what the risk are, IMO, as long as it's on a level playing field, which is almost impossible to define (knowing how to use a condom is not the same as being able to negotiate condom use. Underlying psychological problems) etc, etc. Cheating and lying are wrong, undoubtedly.

I'm not judging anyone - I'm saying they are vile because I'm playing devils advocate- if the men who use them are all lumped together in one group label 'vile misogynists' then you have to be prepared for them to be lumped in a group labeled 'vile prostitutes'. I'm sure there are vile individuals in both groups, but is it fair to put the label on all? And certainly a person can engage in vile behaviour, without being vile themself- and that works both ways too.

My point right through has been that there are as many different scenarios as there are people, and you have to have a balanced over view. I'm sure you're right- some would say they enjoy the work and be putting on a front because they feel judged. Others would be telling the truth. etc, etc.

A punter might say he uses prostitutes because he likes it or he can't be bothered having a 'proper relationship' and that might be a front too. All I would conclude, is that prostitution is vile and very damaging to an awful lot of people.

I have been judged on this thread, with no one knowing anything about me, ercievI have been put into a nicely labeled box. If you decide a group has victim status and that you are qualified to advocate for them, you have to be prepared to take all the facts on board and offer unconditional positive regard to all involved or you might do more harm than good.

Wouldn't it be interesting if it were possible to offer a solution to every 'problem' we perceived as enabling prostitution- all the women have other jobs to go to, all psychological problems are gone in the wave of a magic wand. I wonder what would happen?

Offred Fri 28-Sep-12 12:12:32
Also as far as the law goes prostitution, when looked at holistically, is not legal.

Develop that a little further? www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/prostitution_and_exploitation_of_prostitution/index.html#a15 actually says It is not illegal to sell sex at a brothel provided the sex worker is not involved in management or control of the brothel

There are a wide range of services around prostitution and related offences, but selling sex for money? It's fine in itself.

There is an offence Paying for Sexual Services, which - interestingly - includes male sex workers providers, but only as regards "Sexual services" given the same meaning as section 4(4) of the Sexual Offences Act 2003, if the service provided involved penetration of B's anus or vagina, penetration of B's mouth with a person's penis, penetration of a person's anus or vagina with a part of B's body or with anything else, or penetration of a person's mouth with B's penis.

So a lot of fetish type stuff and "massage" services would appear to be exempt.

GoldShip Gasp

Don't you feel the need to rush out and save them from all the vile men who want to use and abuse them?!

Never let them buy you lunch whatever you do, or you'll be accused of living off immoral earnings

doctrine thanks for correcting the mistake upthread

That really is my point. If you look at the issue of prostitution as a whole it can be seen that some elements are illegal and some are not. For a variety of reasons; perceived or real harm that legislators act on, attitudes towards behaviour, the ability of the law to regulate individual behaviour in the privacy of the home, stigma etc

Saying some aspects of prostitution are not illegal is not the same as saying "selling sex is legal" which equally shouldn't lead to the idea that selling sex is not illegal therefore it is "allowed". Things aren't generally allowed by law, the assumption is that law restricts some behaviours where that restriction can be justified and is in the interests of society.

Basically law is not the only rule you should live by not should it be taken as a final moral (or other) guardian because the way law works is generally reactive and harm normally has to be done before law steps in to regulate. Those first victims of harm become casualties as laws cannot normally be applied in retrospect. It is not to do with any moralising which might be done about prostitutes or punters but more to do with the idea of people being expected to live well and not do harm to each other, that is best achieved by being your own moral guardian rather than "what is not forbidden is allowed".

*nor

The girls aren't doing anything wrong. They aren't betraying anyone. They aren't lying and sneaking around. But the men with wives are. They're the unfaithful ones.

It's just extremely easy to pin the blame and hate on a nameless 'prossi' rather than the man who's supposed to love you

Offred- That's probably a front to show to judgemental women calling them vile.

Just because you don't agree with someone elses view, does not make the person voicing that view 'bonkers.'

I think the question of the data is debatable. It can only be gathered by people willing to be open about a very personal issue. A lot of the women who's experiences are recorded are the ones who are also service users- victims of abuse and trafficing, drug dependants. The data collected is often done so in these settings- after involvement with the police, charities etc, which will also affect on the outcome of the data. So they are not IMO truly representative of the experiences of an unknown, but probably fairly large percentage of the whole. Ditto for the punters.

I also think consent can be given of a persons free will can be given when money is involved, it again potentially reduces a person to victim status to say otherwise.

The question of legalising prostitution to me is a red herring. It sound nice and all safe and cosy, the girls will be safe from abuse, STI will stop because there will be enforced testing. It really won't work and will only make more money for the authorities who will be doing the regulating by way of fines and licensing etc. To me is the same as many other occupations that might appeal to lower socio economic groups, such as cleaning etc. When you can do it cash in hand, no tax to pay, no complicated forms to fill in etc, etc it suits. Otherwise people just do it on the quiet, illegally. That probably applies more to the most vulnerable groups.