can't get over mother suggesting her rapist's name for my unborn child

[bitshakennamechange]

It was a family member, most of the time her family plays happy families but this family member raped a few of the women in the family repeatedly when they were children
I just can't believe she would suggest it, I can't get over it I feel like I've been punched in the stomach! She listed off all variations of the name when suggesting names for my unborn DC! not just one, all variations and NNs he went by!
when I said "you cannot be serious!" she just moved on to the rest of her list

I can't let it go, I feel like she's cursed my unborn child or something

It is definitely odd. When you are choosing names you never consider one that reminds you of someone you dont like, even if it's an acquaintance or someone you knew years ago in school.

I cannot believe some people are calling you dramatic or selfish, OP.

What is wrong with people! What a horrible response.

Rape/abuse doesn't just affect the victims, it has a ripple effect.

It's her mother who endured this horror, but that doesn't mean OP and rest of the family are are not deeply affected.

Would we all be affected by knowing there was a child rapist in the family who may or may not have abused our family members?

I understand how you feel about this OP.

I would too.

It's not that this man's name has been even associated with your innocent brand new baby, but that the whole issue is so painful and hurtful for you and the rest of the family.

I am sure you don't mean the baby is literally cursed but I can understand you feeling that way.

x

"Oh come on - you don't really believe she has "cursed" your unborn child! If you do that's a problem for you really. Don't believe in nonsense like that and there won't be an issue"

FFS I've already said I don't mean cursed as in harmed or hexed! I ALREADY SAID I mean as in cursed AT, like if someone called your unborn child a horrible racist word or swear word!

If I mention a potential baby name I will say the name, then the variations of it, then move onto the next name. Very common to list one name then another in the order in which you heard them first - e.g. As a real person's name combo. I suggested a name and several variations, including one unusual one, to friends recently. I only know the unusual variation from one person - a person who happens to have raped me. It's still a lovely name, and is also held by a very dear friend. Why should I let a name have power? The name didn't rape me, the 'man' who bears it did. I think you need to examine why you are choosing to take on a victim mentality in this instance and, if it really is an issue, just tell your Mum youu won't knowingly name your son after a child abuser as suggested above. Incidentally, your son will almost certainly share his name with a person / people who have done terrible things - just as with inspirational wonderful people. Fact of life.

Toast if you name a child after a deceased elder member of the family, there is an implication that you are honoring the person and naming the child AFTER them, its not just a case of happening to have the same name as say someone 3 doors down!

Mayisout yes I have. So can you point out the bit where the idea that the OP's mum is deliberately trying to annoy her? I certainly missed that.

bitshaken

I did also ask whether it was possible that this is a family name? And suggested that perhaps she is trying to reclaim it.

Bitshaken - care to explain what you meant by your comment to me?

Your poor poor mum, this would disturb me too and I can see why you are upset. Sorry I don't know what to suggest but hope you can vent here.

I'm not sure what you don't understand about my reply toast

olgaga no he's the only one in the family with that name it wasn't used by previous generations

Olgaga 'Strawberry she didn't stop even when the list was obviously horrific to me and continued on with more variations he used! '

On page 2

bitshaken I just don't think you or your unborn child will be permanently affected by this.

You obviously have a great deal of anger about what happened, and empathy for your mum. Why not ask her why on earth she suggested that name?

You know, a lot of people who are abused in childhood do get on with life for the sake of their families. Children are born who know nothing about the past and will never need to know. It may be in her mind that it is a way of erasing those awful memories. There is nothing like a new life to make someone feel that there is a new start. It is, believe it or not, possible to like a name without forever associating it past memories which are best forgotten.

This name could signify a big step forward in your mum's thinking. It is frankly exhausting going through life with the millstone around your neck. Many people who have been sexually abused struggle not just with the abuse but the fact that other people know about it. Perhaps this is a message - if she is able to throw it off, why can't you?

As you may have gathered, I do speak from experience. It is an incredibly complex thing to deal with, and one of the worst things is people not understanding that you have actually come to terms with it in your own way, however strange it may seem to them. They expect you to never forget, but sometimes the ability to rise above it gives survivors of abuse a great inner strength.

In a way, you are raising the question ?Why would a person who experienced sexual abuse want to be close to the very people who did it??

You may find this enlightening:

www.pandys.org/articles/continuingrelationshipswithabusivefamily.html

As I said, it can be a complex and perplexing thing. But I urge you to talk to your mum calmly along the lines of "I was surprised you suggested that name" and tell her why. She might be grateful for the chance to open up to you.

Be gentle with her. She's been through enough without people judging her for not being sufficiently angry or sensitive about it.

I hope I have explained my thinking and my initial reaction to your post. I also hope you and your mum manage to get through this together and look forward to a wonderful future without anger and frustration with each other, which your new baby can be part of.

OP: This is just about the most disturbing thing I've read here on MN, and I'm not at all surprised that you feel shaken up by it.

I have read other threads which explain something about how victims of abuse, especially within families, can fall into the trap of trying to "normalise" the abuse as a coping mechanism. But it almost sounds as though your mother has gone further than that. Maybe she would like for there to be a member of the family with that name who isn't an abuser. But that's imposing an horrendous burden on tiny baby.

It maybe that your mother hasn't resolved her issues about her past abuse, and probably she wouldn't be keen on counselling. The problem with these kinds of family secrets is that they're not openly acknowledged and dealt with appropriately. And the legacy of the original abuse gets passed on to future generations.

I just feel so very, very sorry for you. This is such a difficult situation to deal with.

why would the child be permanently affected by it?

"You obviously have a great deal of anger about what happened"

I think I have a normal amt of anger that any pregnant woman would feel if someone called their bump a horrible thing! This isn't about the past, this is about calling an unborn child something which in the context can only mean something very negative! As for the abuse itself, I rarely rarely think about it and am over even flinching if he is discussed in the context of HIM! I am not carrying around a load of issues about the abuse itself its something I worked through years ago!

"if she is able to throw it off, why can't you?" I don't bring it up! I don't care if he is mentioned, I have spent time with him since knowing for her and was perfectly polite!, in what way am I not "letting it go" SHE brought him up in this context, and as I've tried to explain, it wasn't just a name that happened to be his, it was definitely HIS NAME and all variations he used and to suggest it would be suggesting calling the child AFTER him, its not like it was just a name that happened to also be a name of someone bad!

I'm sorry but if anyone's unborn child was called something horrible they'ld be furious! I don't think my disgust at the suggestion was disproportionate because you think I'm carrying around anger issues every day! Give it a go, go tell the next pregnant woman you see that her unborn child is "a little shit" and see how calmly she takes it! it doesn't mean she has supressed anger about faeces does it?

alcibiades she's had loads of councelling and even trained as a therapist so her own therapy was very intense and comprehensive!

I don't see how calling a child the name would neutralise the name as everyone in the family would automatically link the two, and regularly mention the fact that baby was named after X, I'm pretty sure about this as I have another child who has the same name as another relative and people (rightly) automatically assume it's the relatives name and the child is named after that person, and comment on how nice it is that that person's name is carried on, so if the baby was called X's name then X would be mentioned more than ever!

• so I just can't quite buy that one

the one suggestion on here that did seem plausable was that she was checking to see if it was on my list in a sort of devil's advocate way to make sure I wasn't using it.. it makes more sense to me, even though she didn't do that with previous DS

mine is not the only of that generation of cousins and second cousins who have been "named after" deceased older family members, and they are always "named after" them not just happening to have the same name and the connections are often mentioned

so maybe in other families it wouldn't mean anything if you named a baby a name someone in the family happened had 2 generations ago, but in mine it is a case of being "named after" and honoring that person and keeping their memory alive!

Bitshaken - I said it upthread and I'll say it again, you have been subject to some awful, insensitive comments on here. Where the hell is the Mumsnet empathy and compassion?

I'm sad that you have had to be constantly on the defence on this thread.

I understand the despair and anger you feel and that you've expressed in your last two posts.

I'm only sorry I don't really have any useful advice

x

thanks proudnscary! I wish people could imagine if it was any other name or word with negative connotations!

even my own name, although not named after family members, are both (first and middle) after older people my parents knew rather than just the same name

I didn't appreciate at first that in some families a connection wouldn't be constantly made, new person - new name - new slate! but it's not like that in my family at all!, it would be a memorial! so apologise if I didn't explain that at first I didn't mean to drip feed I just didn't think that it might not mean the same in other families!

and if I was looking for someone in the family to name my DC after, X wouldn't be an obvious choice as X has children and it's a given (for us!) that the children of the deceased family member get "dibs" on using that name for their children IYKWIM so it's extra weird to suggest it as it would be like suggestion my father's name for one of my cousin's unborn children which wouldn't be the done thing in our family, it would be reserved for me to use if I chose to

• all sounds v complicated and silly when I type it out like that but that is the way it sort of works in my mum's family

I feel like I've realy drip fed now, but I honestly thought it was much more common than it apparently is for a child named the name of a deceased family member to be named "after" them rather than just being the same name by coincidence

called their bump a horrible thing!

That isn't actually the case. You aren't going to find out the answer to this dilemma unless you talk to your mum about it At the moment it just seems to me you are determined to be offended by proxy.

Why not just talk to your mum? Do you really think she deliberately meant to upset you? Why would she? But if you think that's the case, you need to ask her why.

no he didn't rape me houseofplain, but he had oportunities to due to the happy family facade, luckily he never took advantage of that with me but he was treated like a normal trusted family member around me and other members of my generation! I don't know if he raped any of my cousins or not, I only know that he raped older members of the family when they were children and he was older and bigger than them

I also think you are getting an unfairly hard time here, OP. It seems to me you've borne the brunt of some weird denial about this for a long time (however much empathy you have for your mother's experience, forcing you to socialise with the man was dangerous, and odd, and very wrong), and the suggestion that you now extend that to include your unborn child for some reason your mother hasn't articulated and may not even clearly see is just too much.

The only way to deal with it from what I can see is to have a very upfront (but gentle) conversation about it: you don't want to talk about these names, or him, again and in future if she raises it you are going to have to leave, or something like that.

Is it possible what she actually wanted was to have the child named after him because, as often happens with childhood sexual abuse, she is denying the horror of it to herself by seeing herself as his special favourite and the abuse as a relationship? That she took the role of encouraging contact and sweeping abuse under the carpet for that reason and now he has died wants him to be remembered?

I think whatever is behind it the only sensible suggestion is to speak to her. Properly in depth, not just look disgusted and it be obvious. There are clearly a lot of unresolved issues otherwise she would never have done a lot of things you have written about no matter how much therapy she has had.

If her abuse makes her toxic to you you also need to get some distance I think.