to feel ashamed and disgusted? Should I be showing compassion?(Long - sorry)

[BabylonPI]

OK,

my DSis and I haven't seen eye to eye for quite some time - the last time I visited her house was in September 2009 when dd2 was a month old. Since then, I've given birth to DS1 - she didn't know I was pregnant with him as I asked people not to tell her. I didn't want her to know. The last time I had any contact with her was in August 2011 when she ruined my DD2s birthday party by starting a massive row with my inlaws

DSis has 4 DCs, and I love them dearly. I have maintained contact with them even though I haven't had any contact with her.

At the beginning of the summer hols, DSis was admitted to hospital with some unknown illness. My parents begged me to make contact with her, and I did - for them, not for me or for her, but for my parents.

She was discharged from hospital (without a diagnosis) and we met for the first time in 12 months at my parents house. She met my DS for the first time and it was fine.

On Monday this week I took a trip up to her house as it was her DC3s birthday on Tuesday and I wanted to make sure the card and gift was on time. DSis was not expecting me and immediately upon entering her home I felt very uncomfortable - nothing I could put my finger on but very uncomfy.

Her DCs 3&4 told me upon my arrival that I shouldn't use the downstairs loo as mummy has been sick in there and it smells. DC4 also said that Daddy was still at work and he wasn't coming back.

Alarm bells started to ring, and I just felt that she wasn't herself. I thought she had been drinking, but talked myself out of that as I know how ill she has been. DCs asked if me and my DCs could stay for tea - DSis said we must and she would go and fetch takeaway. At this, I said we simply couldn't and had to get home.

I left after approx 45 mins.

On the way home, I called my parents and started off a whole chain of events which I'm devastated by.

I told parents that if I didn't know better I would say she was drunk - parents didn't believe me, so took a trip up to her house unannounced. The shit really hit the fan.
DSis denied drinking, but her whole attitude and demeanour gave her away. She attacked her DH, our parents and all in front of her 4 DCS who were screaming at their GPs to leave as they were making everything worse

It gets worse.

On wednesday, I got a call from DM to say I needed to pick her up ASAP and get to DSis' house.

On arriving there, we find, DSis sat in a heap on the floor covered in her own vomit. The living room floor covered in vomit with the youngest DCs playing in it and the family dog eating it

She was so out of it - sat there in just a bra, completely oblivious to her surroundings. This was at 5pm.
She had collected her children from school in the car in this state (but dressed) just over an hour before. Eldest DC had called her Dad to say they desperately so needed help as mummy was so ill. Daddy called GP and so on and so forth....

Dsis is fighting drunk. DCs are witnessing everything (and it was obvious by their reactions that they've witnessed it before).

Because of her recent stay in hospital, her DH and my DM thought it best to take her back to hospital - she is denying all the time that she has had a drink.

At 10pm last night, she was still twice over the legal drink drive limit - she wasn't fit to be seen by the MH crisis scene until after 2am.

She was vile to the hospital staff, DH, DM - everyone really.

It then all came out. She has been drinking in secret for YEARS. She has conditioned her DCs to say NOTHING by thereatening them with Social Services and telling them they would be taken away.
She has had numerous bumps in her car, and has been breathalysed on one occassion that we are aware of (obviously clear on this occasion). Her DCs finally admitted that mummy often mounts the kerb when driving and they have been covering up for her.

She also has major issues with dependency on painkillers. Again, she has denied this vehemently.

She was sent home from hospital soon after 5am today. She has a crisis team in place who will visit her daily at home. She is on a detox as she is severely alcohol dependent.

She missed her DC4s first day at school and her DC1s first day at Secondary school due to her drinking.

When she arrived home, her first concern was that she didn't want to see her MIL, and after that I received a call to ask if I had seen her iPad as she couldn't remember what she had done with it.

I dropped EVRYTHING last night to go to her and her DCs, and her major concern is updating her facebook status :(

I am disgusted, angry and ashamed of her. Right now I don't want to know her. I am livid that she has risked her children's lives and the lives of others by driving drunk on a daily basis for god knows how long.

I will do anything to make sure the DCs are safe, but I'm not sure I can see her without without giving her a good hard slap

Is this wrong? Should I be supporting her unconditionally?
AIBU for being this disgusted with her?
Where do I go from here?

She has some deep rooted issues which she had told everyone she was addressing and was getting counselling for - this was also a lie.

I'm gutted

Sorry, I did say it was long.

Babylon, please don't be taken in by the impractical, head in the air scientist boffin, brain the size of a planet but can't tie his own shoelaces stereotype. My dad's IQ was more than 3 standard deviations above normal, so were most of his friends', and so was my mum's, my little brother's and my big brother's is off the scale somewhere around the 200 mark apparently (but the psychologist said that the numbers become meaningless when they get up there).

The more brainy you are, the more easily you can see what needs to be done. It's sheer laziness that he doesn't pull his finger out. He's using his intellect to dump all responsibility for the day to day stuff on everyone around him. It's an excuse, because the day to day stuff is boring. I really am beginning to see why your sis took to the bottle.

'I struggle to have a conversation with him as he's so bloody intelligent and we just don't have anything in common at all'

I don't know about people of high intelligence being difficult to find something in common with -- unless they make it difficult. Please consider the idea that this is part of his defence mechanism against reality. If he wanted to find common ground, I think he darn well would. If he was seriously up himself and inclined to look down from some lofty height at the rest of humanity, and get away with making as little effort as possible with children, practical day to day life, and a relationship with his wife, what better way than to be aloof because of his alleged superior intelligence?

What I am saying is there is a chance he is choosing to be unapproachable, and choosing to make others feel inadequate in the face of his intellect. That sort of choice comes from the realm of personality and not intelligence.

I am another one whose IQ is enormous, hence my MN name, but I am sure we could have a proper conversation if we met. Everyone takes a dump after breakfast, as they say. We are all human and IQ is such a small part of who we are.

Don't be intimidated by someone who can't read a map and who is an accessory to letting his children play in sick. He's not that clever if he has let his family get so fucked up, is he?

Absolutely what Jux and Math have said about brainy people. I come from a family of very intelligent people and have some very intelligent friends. In no way does it render normal behaviour and/or conversation impossible. Some have a superiority complex and can't be bothered - but you don't need to be brainy for that, just an arse with an inflated ego!

If you feel blindsided by BIL, bring out your bullshit detector. He's got no more right to manipulate you than anyone else has (ie, none).

Agree with Mr D about the booze you found. If it was somewhere daft and you can't leave it where it was, box it up and put it on a shelf - labelled.

One of my family members was desperate to chuck my wine away while I was in rehab. They told her not to. If she'd thrown it out, I wouldn't be 'choosing' not to drink at home; I needed to control that choice myself.

Sounds to me like he has been burying his head in the sand about his wife for long enough and is quite happy for you and your mum to do all the dirty work for him Babylon. Maybe you need to sit him down and all tell him how it is and he needs to get with it?

Babylon, my strong suspicion is that BIL has long been unsupportive- he didnt even seem to know when/whether the kids were meant to be in school, did he, and he was not taking much notice of the problems previously.

Now you have stepped in, he is leaving it all up to you and basically his wife's family to sort. First he ignored his own problems at home, then he has absolved himself somewhat, then you all stepped in, and now he just lest you know when he has a problem which his wife was expected to deal with.

I think your DF was right to bawl him out; he needed to hear it.

I can also attest that it is less than fun being at home with 4 plus (I had 5) children with one of those h's who love their work, get all their kicks and status from it, and even more so if you have any problems at home, because they view home as somewhere where their own egos are stroked- when that doesnt happen enough- after kids- they stay at work, and in my case, eventually find OW.

My h also treated the kids like 'little adults', and needs to have everything explained to him. He wuld only help if asked, or nagged, etc etc. Of course, everyone liked him outside the home, very fun to be with and easygoing and all that.

I also dont think it will help to look for alcohol in dsis's house. If you find it, you should let child protection and BIL know, because it just confirms she isnt serious. Cross when you found it??? What does that tell you? That she really isnt serious.

Poor you and the rest of the family, including the children. In an ideal world your sis and BIL would be shut on a desert island for 6 months and forced to sort themselves out.

I don't want to appear to be insisting she will stay sober - I don't know - but I don't think the existence of vodka in the house is evidence of a plan to cheat. She will have bought supplies before the intervention.

FWIW, I kept 18 bottles of wine at home. They were too good to throw out! (And had been 24 the week before I went to hospital.) You could always ask her what she wants to do with the vodka - it may be a bit soon, I don't know. Can you get advice on that, Babylon?

I agree there GN. She will have laid down a supply like squirrels bury nuts. (Some alcoholics have been known to hide vodka in containers that once held other things, like white vinegar bottles, witch hazel bottles, etc.)

I have told DM she needs to read this thread now as she is getting very narky about the negativity I am displaying towards dsis.

I've tried to explain I'm being realistic but she's having none of it

I've emailed a link to this thread and told her to read it - every single post.

Was that a good idea?

Yes very good idea.

(Delurking - know you from LouP's thread.)

It will be good for your DM to read what advice and experiences others have been through.

Thinking of you Babylon - horrible situation and those poor poor children.

i don't think its a bad idea

couldn't say whether it will help her in anyway...if she is determined you are being negative, wont she dismiss any 'negativity' on here also??

what specifically have you gained from the thread, that you think is important to her?

Maybe your mum, would like to ask us some questions?

I think my DM will assume I have exaggerated the advice I have got here, or dramatised it or something so it'll be useful for her to read exactly what I have said.

I have learnt so much here in terms if alcoholism and how it effects the whole family, stuff that I'd never have thought of really.

I think DM is desperate to believe that Dsis is on the road to recovery and anyone who dares challenge that is taking away hope IYSWIM - I don't want to take her hope away, but if/when Dsis relapses I think it will be better if DM is prepared, rather than it dropping on her like a ton of bricks and it being another massive crisis point.

Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know

I'm not being deliberately negative though. There are positives and I'm trying very hard to recognise them too.

i've started and deleted a thread many times today...there are a number of people that i know whose experiences i want to share with you...but i'm not sure how useful it would be;

i think when you are in the stage your mum is at, it is easy to dismiss other peoples experiences, believing your own situation is different.

so i think this is what i want to make you aware of;

alcoholrehab.com/alcohol-rehab/dry-drunk-syndrome/

DRY DRUNkS

I think DM is desperate to believe that Dsis is on the road to recovery and anyone who dares challenge that is taking away hope IYSWIM - I don't want to take her hope away, but if/when Dsis relapses I think it will be better if DM is prepared, rather than it dropping on her like a ton of bricks and it being another massive crisis point

i think this is EXACTLY right and VERY important

i know some success stories. They haven't featured in any of the advice i have offered because i know that in you/your families situation you are desperate for your sister to stop drinking for good. Its really common to cling to the 1 success story in a sea of a million bad-outcomes, and it helps no-one; sister included

Delurking again to say:

I think you and your father are amazing;

Babylon's mum: please don't shoot the messenger. Babylon is right. I know a couple of alcoholics and their stories are desperately bleak, and recovery is very slow. It is two steps forward, one step back at best. Much as you want to, you can't do this for your daughter. She has to try, fail, try fail, cheat, fail, try, try etc until she does it. Herself.

Agree with Jux and Math about the BIL. The 'no common sense' thing is an affectation designed to allow him to opt out of parenting.

My main concern here is the children. Having an unpredictable family life like theirs must be very hard and very damaging. It's good that you have had a good relationship with these children in the past and perhaps it will help you to focus on them rather than DSis as you can make a real difference with them.

How does DSis feel about potentially losing her kids? Also, how does her gormless 'extra child' feel about losing them?

Has anyone discussed emergency plans with the children? I know if I was little I would definitely want to know what would happen if I called someone in an emergency - so far they have probably avoided asking for help because they will have been scared of losing their Mum or being taken into care. There is something really not right about the fact that gormless DP has failed to support her, he has perhaps been keeping things quiet for the same reason the children have, and that is not a good sign.

The family has to take it one day at a time just as you would if you were the alcoholic going to AA.

(It's not one day at a time with the children and the BIL. For that, looking at the present with an eye to the future and at what went wrong in the past so as to make better plans for the future and avoid past bad habits is important, and of course seeing to all their needs in the here and now is vital..)

Leaping ahead into the future or dwelling on what happened in the past to set her on this path are both examples of not taking it one day at a time.

Maybe your mum could try to see it that way. If she is a person of faith maybe she could sit with this awhile:

'God grant us the serenity to accept the things we cannot change,
courage to change the things we can,
and wisdom to know the difference'

My heart goes out to her. This has to be the most horrible shock, a true living nightmare. Your Dsis is her own child.
Try to be gentle with her -- not everyone can always be on the same page or going at the same speed, especially at such an early stage in the game. She needs support.

Oh, God, MrDobalina, that link describes my friend absolutely. I didn't realise there was a term for it.

She may not be actually drinking alcohol any more, but she has channelled her behaviour into other things. She is bitter and resentful, she is horrible about her husband, manipulative with her children, and has turned her addictive behaviour into spending money. She is as unhappy as she was when she was drinking - but insists she doesn't have a problem because she is actually "dry".

It makes scary reading.

Babylon, I think you are doing very well. I recognise that you are trying to protect your dm for the shock if (and I hope it doesn't happen) your sister relapses. But math is right, one day at a time is the way to go.

And (in my experience) the people who do best are the ones who recognise they have a problem. If your sister is saying at this stage "oh it was a bad patch, but I'm fine now" then she isn't. If she is saying "I'm really in trouble, this is going to be a long road", then there is more chance of her doing well.

My thoughts are with you and I wish you all all the best

Hi Babylon. I posted a few pages back about my DGM's alcoholism and have been following your thread. Really impressed at how you've responded to this situation and glad that posters like MrDobalina are giving tough but great advice.

I've delurked to share a bit more about DGM. Didn't want to mention it before as it was probably too soon, and I'm not saying this is what will happen to DSis, but just putting it up in case it helps your DM understand how this can work.

Basically, DGM drank for 40 years until the day she died in hospital aged 70 with cirrhosis of the liver. This was despite having a loving family, DCs and DGCs trying to help her. Many times over the years she ended up in hospital at death's door and was repeatedly told by doctors that she was killing herself. It is frankly miraculous she lasted as long as she did. For several years DM refused to take us to see her because she was in such a state. Still, nothing was bad enough for her to overcome her denial. Until the day it killed her she "just liked a little drink now and again, what's wrong with that?" and the doctors/family were trying to ruin her life. DM went to hell and back emotionally trying to support her to recover. Every detox had a time limit because she did not accept the problem and did not want to stop.

I think this was at least partly because she was protected from hitting rock bottom by circumstances. The death of my DGF prompted the drinking but also meant she had a mortgage free house and widow's pension. Not masses but enough to keep a heated roof over her head and whisky in the glass. If sharing this helps anybody protect themselves from the rollercoaster of believing every crisis/detox is "the one" that will cure them, I'm pleased to write it. It really is one day at a time and you cannot love an alcoholic better. This doesn't mean they won't recover, but the sooner these things are understood the more the heartache can be minimised.

I agree with all that has been said here.

Can I add also that, professionals would agree, but add a positive and true note that each true attempt at recovery is of value, because even if the alcoholic fails, s/he has learned something new about what she needs to do to succeed next time.

Also, if you are the mother of a child with addictions, I dont think it is actually possible to believe in advance that the first attempt will fail. You have too much personal investment in the outcome, because of the closeness of the relationship, and you need that hope. In fact, I think it is often only after three or four times that the penny drops that:

• you cant do it for them

• the safety net may be part of the problem

• criticising the addict doesnt help either- they need love, but not to be removed from consequences of their actions- a very tricky balance to pull off

• you are not a bad person/parent because your child has developed these issues.

Thank you again for all the new posts and replies.

DM has read this thread and will continue to follow it.

She hasn't said a lot, but then there is a lot here for her to take in. She has printed off the information link about the dry drunk, and has today taken that up to Dsis for her to read.

She won't share this thread with Dsis as we both think that will be unfair at the moment.

Still working on those small steps

She'll like that mrD, thank you x

I also really feel for your mum ((((((hugs))))))

I think the position of being the mother of an addict (as I am) makes it much more difficult to deal with it all dispassionately, because of the guilt. I spend so much of my life thinking "if I had done things differently/loved him more/been more or less strict/etc then he wouldn't have had to turn to drugs".

There is a huge need to fix your child, because you blame yourself for them being broken .

It has taken me years to get to the point that even if I did cause his problems, I still can't fix them. He has to do it himself. Your mum will realise that over time.

She (and you) also need support - someone independent to talk to would be great for her. Counselling gave me the space where I could talk honestly about ds, whereas I couldn't talk to people in real life because I felt I was betraying him.

So sad, all of this, but there are some very astute posts, by some very experienced posters -

Mathanxiety - (It's not one day at a time with the children and the BIL. For that, looking at the present with an eye to the future and at what went wrong in the past so as to make better plans for the future and avoid past bad habits is important, and of course seeing to all their needs in the here and now is vital..)