Feeling hurt not sure if it is reasonable

[Offred]

Dh wrote on the calendar he was out with his friend x last night. Last night was also our mutual friends' last night in town before a big bike trip. On sat DH bumped into the woman he had a long term crush (him repressed and her a bit of a user towards him) on in the supermarket. That evening he mistakenly called me by her name.

I suspected last night would not really be night out with friend x as he has used this as a cover to meet crush before in secret.

Pics turn up on Facebook - mutual friend had tagged me of several of our mutual friends (I met him through them) having a laugh in pub, him sat next to crush. All friends I've not seen for aaaages.

Recently he had got jealous about me going over to see the one who is leaving and staying too long and it wasn't all that irrational, was quite understandable in fact that he would feel that way, so I can understand why he would want to spend time with this guy without me.

I can also understand why he'd want to see all of them without me since although we met independently they are his school friends.

I can even understand why he'd want to see crush without me and am not really arsed (I like her).

BUT I feel so hurt that he has been so secretive about it and deliberately excluded me. Also secondarily that I missed mutual friend who has helped me a lot this year's leaving do :( Not sure where to go from here without him being angry and defensive - how he reacts if he has done something wrong.

Although he is lovely I do have these issues with him occasionally where he will decide I will feel a certain way erroneously and then react angrily if I bring it up. He always calms down straight away and always sees my perspective and feels sorry but I am already feeling fragile just now and feel i cannot actually take the angry defensive reaction if I bring it up.

:(

Not leaving over it, but do need to get some nuts and deal with it. Leaving would come after that.

but what about your friends who were there - they must've wondered where you were presumably?
The difference here is that he has a crush on the woman whereas biker guy has a crush on you right?
none of that is your fault! Ok you don't mind him seeing the crush, I get that you're fine she was open about it, I meant the shock factor of him having not told you is what's so sad and
What would you like ideally here - would you feel better just to get it all off your chest to him for starters?

First I think the advice you give on here is brilliant and its helped me loads!.

Your DH is being a complete tit and I bet you're not hard to live with at all (just conditioned to think that you are by stupid exP and family :() and in actual fact sound amazingly easy and totally low maintenance if you ask me..

Yes and I second the above about there being a big difference between biker's crush on you and his crush ..... imagine if it was you with the crush and had done this to him...it wouldn't be pretty!

yes, there is a real dichotomy between the fab advice you give others and the shoddy advice you dish out to yourself....

Offred it's not about getting angry opposed to pity. Don't forget nobody can tell you how you feel. If you feel hurt you feel hurt. (I would feel very hurt in this situation!) It sounds that you need to learn assertiveness and be honest about your feelings and don't feel guilty about it. You just need to tell your husband how it felt to see it on Facebook and how hurt you were to feel excluded. Don't shout but don't apologise either. You sound lovely by the way my husband would not be allowed a crush unless it was Kylie herself!

ha! my H's crush is Kylie. She is the complete opposite to me in every single way...physically and personality-wise. Go figure

you ok, offred?

Both I and others I know have fallen into the trap of thinking.... 'We both agree on this sort of behaviour' (eg, being open and honest) and then found.... Well... even people we know well, do not play by rules that we think we've agreed.

And if you've been anywhere near counselling for any reason, that can come back to bite you! Because you spend so much time learning to be reasonable, honest, non-clingy, stating your needs, and all that supposedly good stuff that makes healthy relationships, you can totally miss that someone is sitting in front of you, erm, taking the Michael. And very mortifying it is too. :(

It sounds as if you're in touch with your feelings though, so maybe it's time to let them speak and let him see them. Sometimes feelings matter more than reason (IMO, quite often)..

Ha! Ladywordy you are spot on! I spend my life trying to be reasonable and rational. Dealing with xp still I have to not have feelings always be reasonable and rational, disconnecting from my parents a bit, covering up my feelings.

I talked to cried at him actually. I said I felt hurt and humiliated and that it was particularly nasty after I had been feeling upset recently about falling back into being DH's wife as far as some of the mutual friends were concerned to see you all have a great time without me and feel I had been deliberately excluded from that by him.

I told him it wasn't about him having to always invite me or not being able to see them by himself but that I felt upset that he a. Doesn't ever share any of the mundanity which is going on in his life, b. seems to feel he can't say to me what he wants c. Deliberately covers things up to get what he wants anyway and that those three things destroy intimacy.

He said he didn't think I would be interested in his life, he understands why I'd feel that. He said he hadn't known a lot of people were coming but I said I had known and been keeping an eye to see what would happen so that doesn't wash but that even if it had just have been the people he invited (crush, friend x and biker friend) then I would still have felt like this because he would still have covered it up to get time by himself instead of talking to me and I would still have missed out on seeing biker friend before he went.

He says he is sorry, I have explained that he needs to share more mundane things and that the reason I tell him so much in interesting stuff about my life and what I'm doing all the time is because if he were to look in my e-mail, fb or texts there would literally be nothing I hadn't mentioned or that he didn't know and that that was about building intimacy. That it is not about sharing everything but it's about the line between secrecy and privacy and how he's been over this has made me feel that I have a husband who can't and won't include me, who sometimes deliberately excludes me and won't talk to me about how he feels and friends who aren't really that fussed about me.

I still feel sad today, he's gone off to London. I don't know how things are going to go. I told him the Eccles cake was soapy btw

AF - The shoddy advice I give to myself is my parents' voice I think. The single most damaging thing you can say to a very depressed/self harming teenager - "what have you done today to enrich the world with your presence?"

Work in progress, I'm glad the advice I give other people is good anyway! Thanks!

It sounds like he's got himself the perfect card to play.

I'm just oh so irrational and love you sooo much I don't wanna hurt your feelings so I lie to you and do something I know will hurt you because it's what I want.

I do what I want.

I apologise and nod my understanding when you explain how much I've hurt you. use sweet charming words and talk about how much I love you and what I've learned from this experience.

Rinse, wash, repeat.

You do seem lovely offred from reading your posts. But I think you've been treated shoddily here. Being lied to by a p is soul destroying. Is there more to it?

Oh Offred! You offer such thoughtful posts to others I'm so sorry to see this thread.

I find it strange your DH says he doesn't think you'd be interested in his life? Why, therefore, would his friends be? do you think he really means it or just said that to placate you?

It sounds like he's treating you more as a mother or flatmate sometimes.
My ex used to go to things without telling me or lie about it; when I got upset he went for the default 'see I knew you'd be upset' bullshit. I was upset by the lies not the act! He was very jealous and didn't like me going out so was projecting I think. He wasn't doing anything wrong or cheating but it got me down due to the dishonesty.

I know it is bad form to refer to another thread but I seem to remember you saying before that you and your partner never argue; this stuck with me as fairly impressive but unusual. Do you think you have articulated your needs and boundaries clearly? If you are calm and reasonable all the time does he think you don't really mean it? It's great not to argue but not if you are subsuming all your anger and distress.

I am not blaming you here AT ALL, he sounds immature and selfish.

Thank you!

Some of you may have noticed that I'm a bit serious humourless most of the time and I think he thinks his stupid e-mail banter, because it will be that, will not impress me because it will be utterly stupid. But I do like utterly stupid sometimes. In fact it is the main feature of my friendship with biker guy and a large component of my relationship with my best mate. We do also have quite a laugh about stupid stuff together but it is always a pisstake of "silly DH sneezing his face into a cupboard/walking into a road sign etc" maybe he has taken me too seriously on that front, thinking I'm actually covering irritation with humour.

Who knows, I do feel this morning that I have made it all back into his problem for him to sort out.

It could all be because he actually has always felt inadequate, he needs to realise that he isn't. He can be selfish but he is actually a very caring and kind person the vast majority of the time and he works hard at everything he does so I do think now I've spoken up he'll work hard at this too.

Some of his friends thought I was after a meal ticket when we first got together and it was upsetting. I think he spent so long pining after crush and doing what he was meant to that he has never taken control over his own life. Now he has me he can't believe his luck and has in many ways taken a long time to open up himself and trust that I am interested in him in all ways. He also is very uncomfortable with the idea of negotiating for his needs/wants and seeks the path of "meant to do" wherever he can.

The sad thing is that when he does things like this it makes me think I wonder if I have got this all wrong so I say all of the above with caution and a smidgeon of doubt and he needs to prove himself now.

I don't think we'll ever argue. Both of us had arguing in childhood and both of us fear it! We didn't argue last night we did crying and cuddling.

Fair enough. I was just concerned that if both of you were so reluctant to argue that you are unable to truly assert what you think or need without fear of upsetting the other. The idea that he does what he thinks he is meant to as a husband/father with a lack of autonomy is troubling.
I hope he does strive to change and you aren't left tearful and anxious with a soapy Eccles cake again!

That may be true still tbh. We'll see.

I'm a long-time lurker and very occasional poster.

Offred, reading this thread has caused me to go to the kitchen to find food with which to shove down my emotions. Your DH has reminded me so very strongly of my ex-DP that it is actually painful. My ex did all those things that you've described - the good as well the bad. I suspected he had aspergers so it was never his fault. As a result, I remained reasonable and understanding, but it slowly and steadily destroyed me year upon year. I tried everything - over 14 years - eventually sending him into therapy and making it clear that it was serious and I was on the point of leaving. He didn't take it seriously until the day I told him it was now too late and that the flat was going on the market the next day. Then he talked and talked and talked ... but it was too little and way too late. He still has no idea why I left, although i have spelled it out, because he simply doesn't have the emotional capacity nor can he accept responsibility. He's also surrounded by a lot of male friends who are busily demonising me, despite being good friends of mine too before I left.

If you want to save the relationship, maybe you should try couples therapy. I don't mean Relate, more a counsellor/psychotherapist who has expertise in conflict resolution as well as all the emotional stuff you are both carrying around.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the very best and hope you find a happier outcome than mine.

I hope it doesn't work out that way midnights, I'm sorry this has brought bad things up for you too.

This honestly is the first time I've ever explained it properly to him, most of the time I keep quiet, only when he went to that stag do was I really cross and too angry/preoccupied to articulate it properly.

This time I know I have told him properly how I feel and what I want, he has to step up and I need to not back down now.

Just seen this thread Offred and although I come and go on Mumsnet (think I'll be going soon as the place seems to have been overrun by textspeaking dimwits ) I recognise you as a genuine, warm, intelligent poster whose advice I've often agreed with on threads.

I think your husband likes to have secrets and likes to punish you every now and again. You're right that it's a form of passive-aggressive behaviour and I don't think you'll solve this until you get to the bottom of why he does it. From what you've said, these 'secret' punishments are always likely to be discovered and so he gets some satisfaction from knowing that they've registered and hit home, but when they do he won't take responsibility for why he enacted them and seems to deflect some of the blame on to you.

Secrecy and punitive behaviour in a marriage are major red flags and it's likely to get a lot worse if he doesn't tackle this now. It sounds as though you have changed your way of dealing with this issue by telling him how much this has hurt you and why. As it sounds as though you find it hard to be vulnerable in a relationship, that was a big risk for you to take; to let down your defences and show your hurt. He needs to be similarly brave and work out the real reasons he does this every now and then - and why he seeks to control you this way. Passive-aggressive behaviour is actually one of the most controlling behaviours there are - and the most dangerous often because the other person doesn't know what's happening and is therefore blind-sided because there are secrets.

You say up thread that maybe you aren't ready/cut out for a relationship but I think the reverse is true. He is the one who isn't in the right frame of mind for one. Do you deal with financial & official things? I suspect you might do.

Also, how long has this crush on this particular woman gone on for. I get the idea that it's been quite a while, maybe from before your relationship with him started.

Sorry Offred, I was so busy being emotionally self-absorbed that I didn't notice that you've changed your usual reaction I do hope your DH has the sense to see that he needs to change in response. Fingers crossed that he does and that it doesn't come to a stand off where you may be tempted to back down.

Oh & its not that bad ... these days I'm largely happy & content, even when I'm not, its not because I doubt my value to the people I care about.

< checks in >

charbon I sincerely hope you don't give up on MN, we need all the intelligent posters we can get

I am also rather exasperated by the "he can't help it, he's just a man* brigade, and the "evryfink will be ok if u just read 50 shades of shit and watch porn with ur man" posters who seem to be having a bit of an uprising atm

please stick around...you and offred

ha! charbon, I have just caught up with your posts on the "8 year secret porn" thread. Very glad you rocked up there. MN is being overtaken by such shit.