How do you know for sure that you should leave?

[Apty]

Relationships are full of good and bad. What do you do when you are confused about the balance and how bad it really is?

My instincts tell me to leave sometimes, and then at other times that seems like the worst thing to do.

Do you reach a point when you know?

more cheerful is a very good start.
goodnight, sleep tight all

Glad you all liked the blog - I found it so encouraging and positive, it almost made it seem exciting rather than dread filled panic about the future. I think part of the problem is we all see it as ourselves failing to make it work or save it, and the punishment is either a loveless marriage, or loneliness and misery. When actually, single motherhood is not failure, sometimes it's just impossible to save a relationship when it's broken.

So far I've been on my own for a very short amount of time, but my observations are - it's easier than being in limbo. Nothing is as hard as that being on hold feeling. Nothing is as hard as walking on eggshells. I've made my space my own and that feels very good. There have been no obstacles so far that I can't manage. The more I do, the more I feel I CAN do.

I've read & bookmarked that blog too. Still reading, still taking great comfort from this thread - incredibly so. The loneliness of this limbo is very painful. It's a bereavement but I'm the only attendant at a funeral that nobody knows about.

Nothing is as hard as that being on hold feeling. Nothing is as hard as walking on eggshells. I've made my space my own and that feels very good.

Wooooh!!!! That sounds great. I'm joining you in 11 days. My house-moving kit - almost eco-friendly pre-used packing boxes, gaffer tape, bubble wrap - arrived today.

If I needed proof that I'm doing the right thing, I got it tonight - went out for a glass of wine and some dinner with medical school friends and got home at half eleven to find dh had put the chain on the inside of the front door.

He came downstairs bleary-eyed, saying he'd 'forgotten'. Funny how it's the first time that's happened in our fifteen years of living together...

Another calculated move to make me feel bad.

I'm so sick of it. Out of here soon.

Love to all.x

Well we finally were intimate again last night but it was very strained. It's like now we have both in turn threatened to leave something has been broken.
Cannot we have talked quite a bit...or rather I have talked and he has sighed. He said he will try to be less grumpy if I am less controlling. By this he means let him do whatever he wants without complaint I think.
I get very little sleep
With ds2 compared to him but he still moaned all day about my going out to see friend whilst he chose to do housework. He gets out plenty and I took baby along anyway.
I m torn between missing him and yearning for closeness and really disliking how he is.
My mum is Ill at the moment so I feel a bit isolated as we see a lot of his mum.
Imthinking of asking dr for antidepressants but as I have a history of depression am worried they will get jumpy that I am not being good mum.
I am also scared to put a foot wrong in case we end up splitting and he gets heavy handed about custody. That would be the end of my life. Strange to feel can't trust dh to protect kids right to be with me.just don't trust he would not turn nasty as he has a very vindictive nature.

I am also scared to put a foot wrong in case we end up splitting and he gets heavy handed about custody. That would be the end of my life.

Oh, poor you - what a way to live. Try not to worry about this, and remember that you are the one in the strong position. Your kids are small - they need to be with you and any court would recognise this.

He sounds like the controlling one, not you, based on what you say. And you do sound isolated... sorry about your mum. I think you need an ally in RL, do you have a colleague or friend you can confide in?

Please don't let your anxieties get in the way of asking for help from your GP, whether in the form of anti-depressants or anything else.

How do you know:

• you blow your candles out on your birthday cake and your wish is this time next year you will be divorced
• hes late home from work and the thought he has been in an accident brings relief
• you wish wish wish he would find someone else and leave of his own accord
• he wipes his dick on you after sex like you are nothing
• that list of things I dont do quite to his standard is so long now after 20 years I can no longer keep up with it
• you dont know who you are anymore
• you get great advice off here yet there is so little left of yourself its difficult to do anything about it because this is all you know

I know what I should do, and I have detached so much over the last couple of years....but that leap of faith still seems too far.

Well that was a miserable post!!

Hugs to everyone

IWBF xx

It took me years to finally make the decision. Although inside I knew it was coming for a long while. I was terrified though of being on my own. Of hurting the children. Of upsetting him.
Kept thinking if I could just be a better wife then maybe we'd be happier.
It's taken me almost a year from separating to even begin to get my head around the abuse I'd just accepted as normal.
And do you know? I cope fine. The children are fine. We've had odd blips (him using them as pawns mainly) but they are happier. I am extremely happy.
I can do whatever I like without snide comments & judgements or arguments.
I feel like my life is just starting, and its so exciting!
My tipping point was realising that I'd never be more important to him than his next drink. And then when he shouted at me about how flawed & cold I was in front of my children.. Final straw.
I didn't want them thinking that my shit marriage was the way a relationship should be.

Thanks for your optimistic post, Red. It's nice when someone out the other side comes on here to give those of us still stuck in limbo-land a happy outcome story.

IWBF, your list makes sad reading. I think some of the problem for many of us on here is that a bad marriage drains you and crushes your spirit. This in itself makes it harder to find the strength and sense that there could be a happier future that is needed to make the break.

It is striking how many women seem to struggle like this but when they do escape, and get over the first difficult weeks and months, they don't look back.

Also, while there is less social stigma attached to separation and divorce these days, there are also fewer people with family support which must make it all so much easier. It's a lonely business and I often think how much easier it must be for people who leave for someone else. It's ugly, but not so lonely.

IWBF that bit about him wiping his dick on you after sex is chilling. I hope you will be free sooner rather than later x

can i join in and say im feeling the same way as apty and the others
been married 15 yrs with 3 kids ,im in no mans land trying to decide to call it a day ,i just dont love,fancy or trust him and i cannot imagine going through the rest of my life never being in love with someone.
for 3 years ive ummed and ahhed and cannot make up my mind -im scared the truth be told ,scared i wont cope scared my depression and anxiety will come back ,scared for my children ,how upset they will be and scared financially .
ive suggested marriage counselling but he has brushed me off ,i really dont think he has a clue how unhappy i am.

Welcome wendy. Sorry about your situation.

It all seems to take so long. I think you stay in this place until you just can't do it any more. Go back a page or two and find Apty's blog link. It might help you feel a bit stronger. x

i will thanks

Welcome Wendy. It's a horrible place to be, but lots of us are here and it does help to share. Have you had any counselling for yourself, even if DH won't entertain it? I find sometimes I don't really know what I'm thinking until I'm asked to say it out loud, especially to someone who won't judge.

I find I get close to finally calling it a day some days, will feel calm about it, and strong.... And then the next day I'll have a wobble and start doubting myself again.... Having a wobble this eve, DH is home, I'm avoiding by having a bath and early night - too exhausted to face him really. But picked up an old book today called "The Good Divorce" - has anyone read anything similar?

My husband and I are getting less and less amicable as time goes on. Also I have fixed a date to move out, as I said, and now the reality is looming he is angrier than ever.

We would never have chosen to continue to spend 8 months living under the same roof after deciding we were separating... the longer it goes on, the harder it is to leave. The wavering has gone on, and still does. I know exactly the feeling Thistle of feeling strong, determined and positive one day and very wobbly and shaky the next. We ended up in this situation because our buyers pulled out a week before we thought we were going to exchange contracts.

This year has been hell. Now we have reached a point where we can hardly try and have a conversation, particularly about the kids, without it escalating to an argument. DD1 doesn't want to move to my house until half term. She has just started at a new school. I don't want her and DD2 to be separated, and I want her to feel ownership of her new home and that she is sharing the project. I have to leave sooner rather than later. Apart from the fact I've had the keys for weeks, I can't get the funds I will get as a single parent/full time student until I move. And we are skint. He didn't give me any money this month and is asking for money out of our (getting on for empty) savings account (that is in my name). I have no idea if he has any savings left or not.

And he is using DD to score points. He told me this evening that he would be happy if they wanted to live with him and not me. If they wanted to live only with me, I would be devastated, for him, and for them, because they need a relationship with both their parents, and because we both love them and deserve them. He undermines me as a mother, doesn't promote my relationship with the children, doesn't support me. He is saying that he thinks DD should be allowed to make up her own mind about when she moves. I have talked to her about it, and made clear that I don't want to put any pressure on her.

I told him about this conversation, yet later he saw fit to give her a long talk about how much I want her to move when I do, how upset I will be if she won't. It puts pressure on her, but makes me the villain.

I'm also paranoid that he wants me to leave the family home without them at the same time as he has started working from home. He has argued that him working from home means that I don't have to have an au pair (I do a full time course). If I don't have an au pair, obviously this means that he is the primary parent because I can't be there until they leave for school or be there to pick them up. Without childcare I can't have them living with me. So he gets to stay in fh (which is being sold) and be the stay at home parent.

I'm worried about how this would look in a court. When I say this, he gets angry. We haven't involved lawyers and he is angry at the idea we might. He thinks we should sort it all out ourselves and I'm starting to worry that this is just his way of controlling events and that I am being manipulated.

I am going to get 30 mins free advice, I'm looking into it tomorrow.

Sorry for moaning. Can't believe how ugly this is getting. Want to escape so badly, but I've got to fight for my kids.

:(

Tired thank you for your post. I did see gp today and got a script for anti depressants. I told dh but he just does not get why I depressed. I said if you were nicer to me I probably wouldn't be. He says aren't you scared of social services! And I am scared that it may be used against me in th future but I just can't go on feeling like this. And now he says it will be secreted in breastmilk but I've been prescribed safest one called amitryptiline.
Alo, gp says stop co sleeping before I take them.
I've put on super happy face today. Feel pressure to be ultra mum t make up for wobbly mood and relationship. How did it get like this?
Tired, don let him be stay at home parent. I don't know the ins and outs of the law but it just makes me worried hearing that?
Iwbf your list made me sad. I can identify with it too. He's supposed to be going climbing in this shitty weather and I thought go ahead.
But I am confused again, he seemed to be trying tonight. He said maybe he's depressed in the mornings.
I just don't know.

Amitryptiline is a good drug but very dangerous in overdose so be careful. And yes, don't risk co-sleeping, not once. Don't expect to feel better straight away either. Some people feel worse at the beginning on a-ds and you probably won't feel any beneficial effect for at least a couple of weeks, so don't be discouraged if they don't seem to work at first.

Hoping everyone has a good day tomorrow. I am finally off to bed. Oh to have my own bed...

Hi all, just checking in. Thansk to those of you who sent best wishes about my Mum - it has been a hard week and she still does not have any answers as to whether her lump is cancerous or not, we have to wait until next Monday for a mammogram and possible biopsy.

DP and I had our "big talk" on Monday - he presented me with a spider chart ffs, with all the issues around our relationship listed, and his feelings. It felt a bit like a work appraisal, but if that is how he needs to deal with it (he is a people manager in work), that is fine. He is being a lot more grown up and we even talked about custody if we do split up. He doesn't feel he could manage being the main caregiver, which I must admit made me breathe a sigh of relief, but he has said that he would want lots of involvement.

He was worried that I was going to leave him with the kids, as he was checking my internet history one night, and looked at all of the threads I had been looking at on here one evening, and I had looked at one about a Mother who is thinking of sending her two oldest children to live with their Dad. FFS, I look at all sorts of threads on here, but he seems to think that they are all pertinent to our home circumstances. That is why I only really post in work, but I lurk on my iPhone all the time .

He wants to change, he is going to try his hardest, he seems to be managing it so far, and has contacted his counsellor. I feel I need to give him this chance. I just don't know if I can stand him in my bed again.

thistle he never expressly said that my time at home had to be time with him, but that was the general vibe. He has always been fine about me going out with friends etc., but if I chose to spend time on my own when we were both at home the sulking would start. We talked about this too, and he denied it. I don't care if he denies things now though, as I have more faith in my internal passive-aggressive radar, especially now he has started to admit that he was being passive-aggressive and sulky in the not-so-distant past.

I haven't got time to comment on everyone's posts today, as work is mental, but I am thinking of you all, especially those going through difficult blips. One thing I will say though tired, is try not to let your "D"P become the main caregiver for both of your kids at the moment, when things are so up in the air and may turn nasty.

I worry a lot about the main care giver. Dh because of location of his job spends more time with them. I have 2 hours commute on top of full time+ demanding job (that I love). Sometimes I think I should just go, theyre more his than mine, and leave them all to it. Other times I wish he'd just Jeff off and let me cope but that won't happen. He's going travelling for work soon, cant wait. Feel so resentful of him but maybe it's my fault for letting him get the upper hand domestically. He's up b4 me in the morning & has lunches made and packed first thing.

Sometimes I think I should just go, theyre more his than mine, and leave them all to it

Never, never, never, never, never.

They're not, you musn't. I get the thing about the packed lunches :) but it doesn't mean that they don't need me and I won't let go. Nor must you, don't even think about it.

We just had an awful row. I sought legal advice today. I got some general advice, and made an appointment for some specific advice tomorrow. It's going to cost me, and I feel guilty about it. I'm thinking of cancelling, it seems wrong.

But I'm scared of shooting myself in the foot by being too trusting. Dh absolutely infuriated at the suggestion we formalise anything (ie deed of separation). He's either taking it horribly personally and lashing out because he is so hurt, or he's playing a stealthy game. I don't know if thinking the latter is paranoid, or thinking the former is naive. So confused. Formalising it all is sensible, isn't it? But he sees it as insulting. Dunno if that's because he feels rejected and it's just another kick in the teeth or because he wants to keep his options open. :(

Oh cannot, I was presented with a spreadsheet when we had our big chat.... Glad you had a productive discussion though, i think it does help you to move forward when you have a clearer idea of how the big things like custody might look. Hope your mum gets good news on Monday.

Tired, I think you are right to be wary of your DH's reluctance to formalise things, especially when he is already telling your DD a different story. Apart from it costing money, what does he have to lose at this point by getting lawyers involved?

Will try to catch up with everyone over weekend, take care all.

Well we had an awful row tonight. Partly because I want to formalise things and he feels really insulted.

But I've been with this man for 15 years, and I honestly think he is just really, really hurt rather than playing a game.

It was an ugly row, but we both apologised and the air felt clearer afterwards. And we both apologised to the kids, who could hear from a distance the raised voices. Reassured them. I'm going to cancel the legal advice tomorrow morning. It will save me £200 that I need for bedroom curtains in my new house (it's a huge window, buying everything secondhand and as cheap as possible, but it's still hard to find a bargain). Got some lovely interlined toile de jouy ones on eBay, so that's cheered me up.

Dh was really upset at the idea that I thought he might want to take the kids off me. But despite this, said that he would be OK with having a formal deed of separation if I insisted.

I know I'm being a bit defensive and paranoid. I have to remember how hurt he is. And I am wary of lawyers and their insistence on protecting against the worst case scenario. There is a risk that if I get one, he gets one, and because they've all seen the worst, they counsel against that, paranoia germinates and all goes nuclear.

Sorry for another self absorbed post. I'm really in the thick of it right now.

I'd like to thank everyone on here for sharing their stories, and the support I have had. I wish you all a good day tomorrow x

like you, tired , I would not involve lawyers if at all possible.
Wishing you a better day today

I think you're doing the right things Tired, if you can negotiate it all between you for now, it seems easier and less stressful, and you can always change your mind later on if you need to.

I'm also trying to do everything without involving solicitors or mediators etc - this mostly involves me needing to be incredibly reasonable and forgiving and calm and a lot of pretence at normality when actually I'd like to scream or run away. Of course I never do and things are smooth as they can be. Sometimes it feels like a cost to my mental health, the pretending, but I don't really see any other option as the children really need to feel that we can all get on and he needs to be able to spend time with them. Hopefully it'll get easier.

Thanks. I cancelled the lawyer appointment, I think we've agreed a truce. Bought some nice bedroom curtains for my new house - cheaper than the lawyer and will last for years.

had a bad day with dh - my sister ,her kids and her bf came over for a while and he doesnt like them ,after they left he said something about my sisters bf ,he has a hang up that i fancy him - no way i dont at all ,he's a ncie guy thats where it ends ,dh has gone off to work thankgod i just dont want to have to deal with him anymore