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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Gone with the condiments

999 replies

LouP19 · 30/08/2012 21:12

Evening all,... Thank you to whoever came up with this lovely shiney new thread title!! Grin

As for Fedora, well I looked and it certainly wasn't her I saw in the picture!! He did go to Italy though, I saw pictures on his camera of the Bay of Naples, and also a few video clips of boat trips. And that's when I saw one single picture of a young blonde who he called 'Fedora'. 'I took a picture of her as she's very attractive and I wanted to remember what she looked like'. Jeez, I had a bit of a go, but I left that one because I couldn't be arsed to have an argument. This was about 4 days before he left.

Anyway, onto other things. Had one of these evenings where I can't stop my brain from whirling over details from the last few months. Times when I believed him because it meant an easier life. Believing him meant not being called 'paranoid' or insecure' or told to 'grow up'. Believing him meant some peaceful times on my own, not having to put up with him stomping about, resenting the fact that he was here. Believing him the time he claimed he got a 4 1/2 hour train back from London one evening in November when he smelt of aftershave.

Arrrggghhh! I know there's nothing I can do to stop this churning, but I am SO annoyed at myself. There were signs, but I just hoped things would get better. He always complained of being under pressure at work, so I had faith that he was trying his best.

Am so tempted to contact his boss and let him know what he's being doing under the 'guise' of work. Obviously, I wouldn't do it, but it is so tempting,......

Need to remember revenge is a life well lived blah blah!! Confused

OP posts:
Flisspaps · 04/09/2012 16:36

Lagard my understanding is the scans are to confirm dates (as the procedure differs depending on how many weeks you are), and probably to check how many foetuses are present. The woman doesn't see the scan screen, it's turned away.

RoxyRobin · 04/09/2012 16:40

Lou,I?ve followed these threads from the beginning, and also remember you posting about the melodramatic incident when your H left you in a lay-by.

I only occasionally post in Relationships as I?m reluctant to meddle when serious decisions have to be made by women I don?t know from Eve. However, I?m sticking my head above the parapet to act (though only to a tiny extent) as a bit of a devil?s advocate for your H.

I?m wondering if the stress of the ttc situation put a strain on you both ? a strain which manifested itself in his case with some irrational behaviour ? eg storming out of the house, the farmers? market scenario ? before the ultimate betrayal of his affair.

My GP aunt confided in my mother that she was relieved when her daughter decided against going down the fertility clinic and ttc path because she saw first-hand in her surgery what a severe strain it put on both individuals and their marriages. My cousin ended up conceiving a year later anyway, but it shows how much it can affect people for my aunt to have preferred her own daughter not to try it.

Of course, this if true would in no way excuse what this man did ? but it might provide some explanation of why he veered so spectacularly off the rails, when you said yourself you had previously been very happy together.

And he?s one frightened, panicked man, now. Many men manage to get away scot-free, the bastards, but his fingers have been so burnt his armpits are scorched. I reckon what he?d dearly love now is to be back snuggled up to you and the cats and the bump, and for the OW and her bump to magically evaporate ? but unfortunately for him ? and sadly you - he?s not going to escape the consequences as easily, the stupid sod.

As for some of the other aspects of his behaviour that have given rise to contempt on here ? the chutney extraction and the gift-wrapped cat-food, for example ? I can honestly say that I can see my own DH doing this sort of bizarre stuff. In fact, when I was reading about the chutney I tutted out loud, and my DH asked why. When I explained, he said, ?But what?s so wrong with that?? I made an attempt to enlighten him but soon gave up. Sometimes I think they?re not just a different sex but a different species. (Though I think even he would have known better than to present me with The List.)

Furthermore, even though we?ve been married thirty-odd years, my DH still doesn?t know the right words to say if he wants to apologise or make it up with me ? I think he?d like to brush the aftermath of conflict under the carpet never to be mentioned again. Fortunately he?s got enough good points to make it worthwhile to continue, and I suppose he puts up with some bad behaviour from me.

If it?s the case that you do want to be rid of him pdq, Lou, I certainly don?t blame you ? I?d personally find the situation with the OW?s baby very difficult if not impossible to take on board. It just seems that an assumption has been made that this is what is going to happen, whereas it?s the same as with the pregnancy ? you must do what you want without regard for what any poster on mn says.

sugarice · 04/09/2012 16:42

Lou, ironed bedlinen just feels much nicer to get into at night. It's a task but I can't help but iron the lot and it smells so fresh and crisp that it's always worth it!

SweetFannyCraddock · 04/09/2012 16:56

If you don't mind me asking, how many mcs have you had? I knew you had been ttc a while.

I am glad the nurse was nice. It makes a difference. I remember the last scan I had for mc, the nurse was so lovely, and so caring. How do you feel?

SweetFannyCraddock · 04/09/2012 16:56

If you don't mind me asking, how many mcs have you had? I knew you had been ttc a while.

I am glad the nurse was nice. It makes a difference. I remember the last scan I had for mc, the nurse was so lovely, and so caring. How do you feel?

Portofino · 04/09/2012 17:14

I agree with what Roxy is saying. No-one has really looked at this from the view that both of you were under tremendous strain ttc, to the degree that he was prescribed viagra. It may explain some of the odd behaviour in a way that a Narc diagnosis doesn't. I recall you quoted some emails, saying something along the lines of "no I cannot rearrange my work schedule" etc. Rather than me. me, me that could have been him expressing his frustration with the process, and you may have come across as pushy for all we know.

None of this excuses his behaviour by the way, but does put another slant on it.

LouP19 · 04/09/2012 17:17

Thanks Roxy, yes without a doubt the ttc lark did put a on pressure on us. I certainly felt unhappy last year when nothing was happening for us and complained often that my life felt as if it was 'on hold'. He never felt like that, and it certainly seems to coincide with when our problems started. I just wish he'd been more honest with me last year about the pressure he felt it was putting us under and may be none of this would've happened. But who knows,..... and I can't dwell on that.

When SIL spoke to me the other day she did say 'He's definitely his father's son'. I pressed for a bit more information, but she didn't say anything else and I didn't want to put her in an awkward situation. But it was a telling remark. (His Dad used to work away a lot as a sales rep when my husband was a small child,.......)

It's interesting, the nurse said to me today that she sees an awful lot of women who are abandoned by partners either during early pregnancy or just after a baby is born. Sad

OP posts:
LouP19 · 04/09/2012 17:19

He started taking viagra when the affair started. Even he admitted this to me when he told me about the affair, so that was merely to 'keep it up' whilst he was carrying on with 2 women,......!

OP posts:
Portofino · 04/09/2012 17:26

To give an example from my own life, a few months ago I was having dreadful problems with dh - so bad I was actually planning to leave. He was either non-communiative or shouting at me, and at dd which I could not tolerate. He started makin some unilateral decisons that I did not agree with. The atmosphere in the house was terrible. I posted about in MN at the time, and chatted with FB friends etc. A lot of the advice was that he was a completely selfish knob and I would be better to leave him and protect my dd.

BUT, one day he accidentally came across a thread on MN where I said something like he had his head permanently stuck up his own arse. The following scene was not pretty and he stormed out. Whilst he was out I got a call for him and when I asked who was calling the woman said she was a Pyschologist. When I appeared confused she apologised for calling the wrong number and hung up. Of course, when he came back, I asked him what was going on.

And it all came out. Due to pressure at work, he was pratically at breakdown point and seriously depressed' He was so ashamed of how he was feeling, and afraid of letting me and dd down, he could not talk to me about it, and considered suicide as the only way out. He was spending his lunch hours in the woods where he had a selected a tree - considering how and when he was going to go about it. Luckily for me, he had a rational moment one day and made an appointment. When it all came out we got him to the GP, got him signed off work, got a referral to a pyschiatrist etc. A rest, a long chat with his boss and some medication and he is a different person.

I was ready to cut and run - but got some sterling advice from AF and LissieLou amongst others that made me sit it out. I am so glad I didn't just run with the polarised opinion that he was an arrogant, selfish bastard. He probably would not still be here now. I could have coped with OW - but not that!

Portofino · 04/09/2012 17:28

Of course all the advice made perfect sense looking at from solely my POV - but there CAN be another side.

Thymeout · 04/09/2012 17:31

Good post, Roxy.

I get that Lou wants to use this thread to rant. And that people think they should agree with her, because 'it is a support thread'. So there's a sort of competitive denigration of Chunt.

But sometimes I think to myself, 'What else could the guy say in the circs?' Part of it is the old problem of how do you know when a liar is telling the truth. But, as you pointed out, Lou did say that up till last year she'd have said she was very happy. And her doctor also pointed out that quite a few men have affairs during TTC. No excuse, of course, but something to bear in mind.

Whatever...even if getting back together is impossible, if Lou goes ahead with the pregnancy, she's going to have to have some sort of relationship with him, so better not to get too carried away with the demonisation. I'm hoping, Lou, that your counsellor will be able to provide some sort of balance.

RoxyRobin · 04/09/2012 17:37

Sorry you had such a hard time, Porto - and glad it ended well.

SweetFannyCraddock · 04/09/2012 17:38

its actually very common for people to have affairs when they are having fertility problems. its a primitive response. you start looking for an alternative mate with whom you can successfully procreate.

it doesnt make it right, and he has behaved appallingly, but i also know that there have been many times when dh and I have been on the verge of splitting. one night, I was having my 5th mc and he went out with his mates. i had to call him from A&E because I was haemorraging. I stayed out all night, one night because my period had come and I got so drunk that I couldnt stand.

FTC puts so much pressure on you, thats why the counsellors from fertility clinics are so useful.

BelieveInPink · 04/09/2012 17:48

I wouldn't think too much of the Viagra. Chances are that his subconscious knew what he was doing was wrong and intervened, even if his conscious didn't. Many men having affairs have problems...err...keeping it up with another woman.

Portofino · 04/09/2012 17:50

And healthy men in their 30s should not need Viagra to get it up no matter how many women they are sleeping with - so maybe there was another problem he was too embarrassed to discuss. More pressure.

I am a bit of an expert on Viagra as I worked for 10 years at the plant where it was discovered and manufactured. Wink Oh those joyful share options Grin

juneau · 04/09/2012 17:56

you start looking for an alternative mate with whom you can successfully procreate

Well, if that's the case, he hit the jackpot didn't he!

SweetFannyCraddock · 04/09/2012 17:58

the phrase, be careful what you wish for, may apply Wink its a subconscious response to the specific stress that FTC brings.

Portofino · 04/09/2012 18:01

I bet he is really bloody miserable at the moment. Karma et al.

SuffolkNWhat · 04/09/2012 18:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Jux · 04/09/2012 18:35

I think I'm being thick. I don't actually see how dumping your wife in a layby, devastating her at the start of a day out and demanding that she act all happy about it, taking her to work to get her out of the way while your removal van turns up and takes who knows what away without saying a word to her so she can come home to an emptied house with no idea what is going on, having a longish affair and impregnating some other woman, telling your wife that her pg is inconvenient, withholding your contact details from her, well, I don't really see how or why this is excusable under any circumstances at all.

Please explain Porto et al. I must be the meanest MNer, as I just don't see it. Actually don't explain. It would take too long.

Portofino · 04/09/2012 18:49

I never said his behaviour was excusable. He is a shit, plain and simple. I argued against the fact he was being diagnosed with a PD by MN and that there can be nuances that we don't know about, and I am also trying to make the point that polarised advice is not necessarily the best advice. Sometimes, hard hitting, tell it iike it is advice is better than hair stroking and mute agreement.

Yes, the point of the thread is to support Lou, but how can she make proper decisions if people persist in diagnosing him with things that might not be true. I think Skye said something above, like "no, he is just a bastard" People are reading far too much into a few text messages. It might be nice for Lou to hear all this, but she might have to build some kind of relationship with him in the future.

Thymeout · 04/09/2012 18:50

No one is saying it is excusable. Everyone has made the point that it ISN'T. And in all probability, what he has done is unforgivable.

But Jux - please read Roxy's and Porto's posts again.

SweetFannyCraddock · 04/09/2012 18:53

Its not excusable. Noone has said it is. Please point out where anyone has made excuses or said that its ok.

OhDearNigel · 04/09/2012 19:07

Lou - I've had 2 terminations and just wanted you to know that you are given the "Actually I don't want to do this any more" right up until the moment you are given the pessary to open your cervix for the procedure. There was a girl that changed her mind at the clinic I went to last time, I think it's quite common that people only get clarity about what they want to do when it actually comes to the point of no return.

You don't need phone to cancel - nobody will come round looking for you if you don't turn up x

Jux · 04/09/2012 19:12

Then it's irrelevant.