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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Gone with the condiments

999 replies

LouP19 · 30/08/2012 21:12

Evening all,... Thank you to whoever came up with this lovely shiney new thread title!! Grin

As for Fedora, well I looked and it certainly wasn't her I saw in the picture!! He did go to Italy though, I saw pictures on his camera of the Bay of Naples, and also a few video clips of boat trips. And that's when I saw one single picture of a young blonde who he called 'Fedora'. 'I took a picture of her as she's very attractive and I wanted to remember what she looked like'. Jeez, I had a bit of a go, but I left that one because I couldn't be arsed to have an argument. This was about 4 days before he left.

Anyway, onto other things. Had one of these evenings where I can't stop my brain from whirling over details from the last few months. Times when I believed him because it meant an easier life. Believing him meant not being called 'paranoid' or insecure' or told to 'grow up'. Believing him meant some peaceful times on my own, not having to put up with him stomping about, resenting the fact that he was here. Believing him the time he claimed he got a 4 1/2 hour train back from London one evening in November when he smelt of aftershave.

Arrrggghhh! I know there's nothing I can do to stop this churning, but I am SO annoyed at myself. There were signs, but I just hoped things would get better. He always complained of being under pressure at work, so I had faith that he was trying his best.

Am so tempted to contact his boss and let him know what he's being doing under the 'guise' of work. Obviously, I wouldn't do it, but it is so tempting,......

Need to remember revenge is a life well lived blah blah!! Confused

OP posts:
KatMumsnet · 02/09/2012 12:51
solarfairylights · 02/09/2012 12:57

I have name changed for this, and also have changed small subjective details to prevent outing myself, but the bones of my story is the same.

I was 35 when I found out I was pregnant, to a partner I had finished with about a month previous due to physical aggression. I had previously had an abortion in my late 20s, which I have no regrets about. The thought of being a single parent turned me cold, but at the back of my mind was the thought that "what if this is my last chance to have children?" This is what made me carry on with the pregnancy.

However, I seemed to have a bee in my bonnet about my ex should be involved, and be at the birth, be involved with the baby etc. even if we were not together and he came along for scans, ante natal visit to maternity unit etc. No doubt if Mumsnet had been around then things might have been different, but I was (wrongly) thinking that his support was better than nothing.

When the time came to give birth I had to be induced so it was not a surprise the day I was going to have the baby, the morning after I had gone in to be induced they took me up to delivery suite in the lift, and phoned the ex to come in, my waters broke in the lift. It suddenly became very clear to me that actually I did not want him with me whilst I was giving birth, I didn't want him to see me in labour, I wanted someone who cared about me such as a my best friend or my mum with me. Things were taken out of my hands as I had meconium stained liquors and the baby's heart rate dropped so I had a crash section.

When I came around the ex was there, he came in to visit dutifully, drove me and baby home, came around every day, then one day he just did not turn up. He literally disappeared (I later found out he had gone off with a woman - I can't call her OW as we were not together) and ceased all contact. For a while I was distraught, calling his family, his friends, crying my eyes out and begging them to tell me where he was etc. and basically losing all my dignity. Deep down I think I wanted him back so we could be a "family".

After this, I just got on with it, I found being a mum a joy, my baby was the cetnre of my world and I loved every minutes of being his Mum, although at times yes it is hard, and a bit lonely, my family - like yours are supportive, and also friends would invite me to do social things with them where I could take the baby along, so I didn't feel too lonely. I did hit a period of depression, and my lovely health visitor told me to "Don't think about what you haven't got, think about what you have got", which is something I often repeat to myself now in times of difficulty.

Due to my ex not being around to "help" me I gave up work - I was a shift worker and didn't see how I could work nights as a single parent, so I went on benefits. This was scarey at first, but because I was already well set up, had my own home, had some savings and a good family support system it really wasn't bad, in fact I would go as far as to say I loved it. Obviously it is different for young women who are pregnant and have to worry about housing and money, and I recognise that I was very lucky to be in such a good position to be a single mum (if there is such a thing?).

You are in a similar position Lou, you are well set up for a baby having your own home, and established in a career. Whilst I was on benefits I did Open University and had a complete career change and am in a better position now than I ever would have been had I stayed in the same job. Money was tight, but as I was an older single mum I never felt I was missing out by not going clubbing etc. as some of the younger mums at the baby groups would say that they felt. I would feel fulfilled by going for long walks with the baby in the pram, going to feed the ducks, visiting friends, going to baby groups etc. things that cost very little.

There is not one moment I regret what I did by going ahead with the pregnancy, but I know for sure I would be full of regrets every day if I terminated.

Shelby2010 · 02/09/2012 13:18

Hi Lou, hope you are having a peaceful day. Have you thought about how much you would want him to be in the baby's life? Are you hoping he would want to spend time with the child & be a 'good' dad? Or would you rather he took a long hike & stayed out of your lives?

I agree with other posters that what he says & does are two different things. My hypothetical scenario is that if you ask him he will say he'll have nothing to do with you & the baby. In his mind this will make you more likely to abort & save him a lot of hassle. But, if you keep the baby, then ignoring you won't fit his 'nice guy' self-image. So he will spend some time with his child (prob at PIL so his mum can change nappies etc) & complain that you make access difficult.

Personally I think you could make a great life for you and the baby whatever he does.

AquaChoc · 02/09/2012 13:32

solarfairylights What a lovely honest post, the hard bits and the easy bits all included, I am sure Lou will find your story helpful in getting an idea of life as a single mum.

Lou I agree that, from what you have written, that life as a single mum compared to life as a partnered/married mum with your exDH, would be easier, given the things you mentioned of how he sulked if he didnt get his way, got angry, liked things his way, shouting at you, dumping you out of the car, you were sometimes on eggshells not wanting to set him off, ....this would have been horrendous to deal with as a new mum with a baby that doesnt sleep and eat according to a set routine and will cry through the night to be fed initially. He would have been extremely put out by the fact that his place as #1 would be pushed aside by baby, and that all of your focus would be on the baby, I hate to think how he would have reacted to that.

Good luck with your decision in the next week or two, I am sure you have lots of thinking and soul-searching to do, maybe even write down pros and cons of having the baby, to not having the baby, and also listen to what your heart says. Remember we are all here for support, and to listen to any thoughts you may want to bounce off us as a sounding board. Best wishes! Smile

garlicnuts · 02/09/2012 14:08

the tears have removed the scales from your eyes - This is beautiful, bleedingheart!

I agree with Juneau about seeing whether the planned holiday is still going ahead.

Lou, of course your pregnancy decision is top of mind and tormenting you :(
Whilst it's true that you're well-placed for single parenthood: housed, employed and supported; I suspect it's not true that Chunt will either be helpful or absent. My FB support group is full of women being fucked around by Narc men, basically using their children as levers to exert continued control over the women. It's ugly and distressing, and there's nothing the women can legally do about it. Some of the members are in the Emotional Abuse threads on this board.

It's natural that the person you'd want to talk it over with is him! Just in case you're feeling wibbly after the many moving posts today and last night ... The majority of fuckwitted men are just fuckwits. There is hope of redemption. Some characters are literally incapable of valuing anything, or anyone, beyond its perceived value to them personally. Chutney shows every sign of being a pure-bred example of the latter. Whatever he says; whatever he does, will be driven only by whether he deems it convenient to himself and an enhancement to his public image. As you've noticed, his control over you is a matter of importance to him so I think it's safe to assume he would do/say anything to get under your skin and regain leverage.

Up to 10% of people are presumed sociopathic. This means 90% aren't, and most of those have so little to do with them, they probably haven't noticed the oddness. It's very usual to find most people can't quite believe there's no "better side" or fundamental goodwill to others in some.

It's also usual - and painful - to find you can't quite believe it yourself. I sometimes talked things over with my ex in my head as, wise or unwise, it helped tidy up my brain spaghetti! Essentially, I was talking to the 'him' I'd thought he was, not the cold-blooded reality. Going a bit more psych over it, I was really using the idea of him as a device to access the more rational (not cold-blooded) parts of my mind. I did it on paper sometimes.

You've got the benefit of a truly excellent therapist, by the sounds of it, and will be able to mull it all over with her tomorrow. I wish you the best - along with much strength, love and wisdom.

Might be back later with news of a giant muffin experiment Wink

PerUnaBomber · 02/09/2012 14:17

Delurking, though have read all your threads. I became a single parent earlier this year after summoning the courage to get xP to leave. He was controlling, verbally, emotionally and financially abusive, drunk and on one occasion, violent. My dream had been to be a SAHM until DS was at school, but I have had to go back to work full time after 2 years of SAHMing. I thought it would be the hardest thing in the world, but I have a fantastic childminder and have forced xP (who in so many ways mirrors your H) to continue with his 'nice guy' facade and step up to care for DS when I can't, due to my job. The thing he fears most is being revealed for the monster he actually is - so I decided to use that to DS and my advantage. Solicitor was v useful in Advising on contact routine. I have no family here, and no 'legacy' friends, they are all new since DS was born, but I make it work, i limit my contact with xP to written only (as he is the king of twisting words and deflecting). DS is v happy, just turned 2 and won't ever remember his dad and me being together. We live in the house xP and I bought, I am going to buy him out once my probation period is up at work, with the help of my Dad. It's not what I imagined, but DS and I are happier than we were, we have fun together and tbh it really isn't as stressful and emotionally draining as managing the relationship with xP. So, Lou, I am sure you would find it the same.

balotelli · 02/09/2012 14:45

Re only 'quite intelligent'

You are a Forrest supporter so 'quite intelligent' is an improvement on most Forrest fans Grin

Hope you get into the play-offs this season but only if not at the expense of Hull City.

You are doing really well.

Good luck with your choices this week. Its one thankfully being a man I will never have to make and I'm not sure I could.

Hope you are happy and contented with your decision and bollocks to him.

Thanks
garlicnuts · 02/09/2012 14:56

Hope you are happy and contented with your decision and bollocks to him.

Yes, I could have made my posts so much shorter! Grin

Lagartijadoesthecrazyshake · 02/09/2012 14:57

But what do YOU want Lou? Do you want to have this baby or not? Nevermind about other people's experience of single parenthood, your life is not theirs. Do you want to be a mother now?
Whether he's involved or not isn't relevant if your gut feeling is you want the baby and it isn't something you can know really in advance. He might start off involved and then get bored. You are ten weeks pregnant, your body is changing day to day...do you want this baby or not?
You say you have a solicitor on the case and have spoken to the bank etc, so I really think you need to do some serious thinking about the pregnancy now.

garlicnuts · 02/09/2012 15:10

Shake, Lou's got counselling tomorrow.

Lagartijadoesthecrazyshake · 02/09/2012 15:32

OK, hope she can make some serious headway on the baby front then as I think that overrides all other concerns at the moment. I understand there is a lot whirring round in her head, but she needs to find that gut feeling...yes or no and move forward from there.

Abitwobblynow · 02/09/2012 15:37

I really am not too sure we should be imposing our thoughts on Lou?

This is such a private decision. Sorry to sound holier than thou but there is no decision more personal and I think we should give her lots and lots of space on this one.

Lagartijadoesthecrazyshake · 02/09/2012 15:39

A private decision but one she needs to make right now.

HarlotOTara · 02/09/2012 15:44

Lou, I have only posted once on one of your messages but have been following what has been going on and wish you all the best whatever you decide. My DD's father left me when I was pregnant and made it very clear he didn't want to be around. Abortion wasn't really an option for me but I did think about it. I suppose I knew I would cope and wanted a baby. My DD is now 21 and has just left university, I did go on to have another dd with my dh.

The down side to having a baby on my own was the tiredness and sometimes feeling lonely. I was exhausted for the first three months until my dd slept through the night ( thankfully she was always a good sleeper after that). It wasn't easy when there was noone to take a screaming baby for me in the middle of the night. There were times I thought of ringing her father and letting my dd scream down the phone. However that phase thankfully passed. I did sometimes feel lonely but I did have very good friends who were a great support and my mother was very good at helping out.

The plus side was that my dd was so gorgeous and enhanced my life so much that I never for a minute regretted having her. Life would not have been so great if she hadn't been there. I was fortunate to be able to own my house and had a good job which meant I felt secure - being on your own with very little money is a different ballgame. I did have people to babysit but basically where I went my dd went and tbh made it more fun. She was a very sunny natured child (still is) so that probably helped. I still had nice holidays and did all the things I wanted to do but just did them with my dd.

Having gone on to have another baby with my dh I can say that in some ways having a baby on my own was easier - there was no one else to consider and I could just do things my way. My dh is very supportive and has been a great father to both my children but for me, making decisions on my own was probably easier (says a lot more about me than anything). My dd2 was very ill when young so her early years weren't as easy, being a single parent was a stroll in the park.

We never know what life is going to throw at us and I never expected to be a single mum but my DD and I survived and lived well - watching her graduate recently made me feel quite proud, not just because she got her degree but because I felt we had both survived a bit of a rocky start and had a bloody good time doing it.

My dd's father was a dick rather like your dh. I have some dreadful kletters he wrote about why he couldn't be a father to his dd. My dd did see him sporadically for some years but decided she didn't want to see him any more when she was about 12. His loss and down to his stupidity (has narcissistic tendencies too).

Hope this post isn't too long and hope it helps

cenicienta · 02/09/2012 16:25

Lou going back to the text and whether you talk to him or not, a few things cross my mind that maybe you could say to him as a kind of test as to where he's at:

When he says "you would never take me back..." you could respond "you have never actually asked me to forgive you and take you back, you have already decided that I wouldn't"

When he says he's sorry you could say "your actions are not those of a person who is deeply sorry, they suggest something very different"

I'm not saying you should take him back, personally I would find it difficult to rebuild a relationship with someone who had consistently behaved so badly.

But in your posts it comes across that one thing you struggle with is the not knowing what his intentions actually are. Is he just transferring all the blame on to you so he feels less guilty? Or does he really desperately want to come back?

This could be a way of at least finding out, even if in the end you still say "no" to him. It would iron out some of the uncertainties you have re his motives and leave you in a more powerful position to make a decision.

Portofino · 02/09/2012 18:26

Lou, I think you should decide what to do by yourself. If you decide to go ahead, you should talk to him AFTER that. If you have the baby you will have to deal with him in some capacity for at least the next 18 years. As others have said, the baby has the right to have a relationship with its father, and you will not be able to prevent that.

You need to meet and hopefully agree how this is going to pan out in the future. I would think that it is in your best interests to try to build some kind of amical relationship, no matter how hard or hurtful that is in the short term. You also need to sort the house/fiances.

CockyPants · 02/09/2012 18:27

Hello, Lou.
Please feel free to ignore this! Some ideas to mull over whilst tucking into a cheesy crumpet based snack. Not a quiche lover. Yuk.
Was the baby conceived out of love, from your side?
Do you want to be a mother, regardless of twunts existence?
Are you willing to fight with every fibre of your being for your child?
This is really what your decision boils down to.
It's not about twunt at all, it's about you and the baby.
I think his text smells of bullshit. From your other pre split threads, he is NOT a good man to have in your life. From your writings you are an intelligent loving thoughtful woman. And I think you would be a wonderful mother.
Sorry, this reeks of emotional Wotsits.

mistlethrush · 02/09/2012 18:50

Lou, I don't think that you could rely upon what he might say about the baby and his potential involvement in the future. I think that you will need to envisage what its going to be like if he is not supportive (in terms of making trouble), if he completely cuts you off, and if he actually comes through as a decent father. Any combination of those might be possible.

However, the main thing is what you want for yourself - given the above. You have a difficult choice at the moment as there are so many 'what ifs'.

One thing that might be an advantage for you is if his job continues to involve lots of travelling - because that would mean he wouldn't be around much of the time (even if you had been still together) in any case.

mistlethrush · 02/09/2012 18:51

Actually - what Porto and Cocky said.

Hotelfoxtrot · 02/09/2012 18:54

Another one delurking to share my experience.

I am a single mum of 2, I have an almost 3year old and a 5 month old. My children have the same father, however, I was a single parent fro having my first. My pregnancies were tough, I was stressed, tired, extremely hormonal and emotional. At times it was very lonely and I would envy friends who had partners to share it all with. I worried a lot.

But my children are the Light of my life. My heart swells with pride for them. I could never love a man the way I love them and I don't think anyone would ever love me the way they do. It's unconditional, from both sides.

The lonely times are rare now my eldest is able to have conversations (he talks a lot!) He has his own interests, likes/dislikes and personality. I get more kisses and cuddles than I could ever wish for. He is my other half. My youngest is just adorable, he is such a happy, laid-back baby. He giggles a lot and the sound melts my heart. I feel very lucky to have them and don't think much about being a single parent anymore. They are more than worth the difficult times and despite my circumstances not being ideal, I am very glad I made the decision to keep them.

I hope this helps Smile

springydaffs · 02/09/2012 19:05

I'm concerned that you're considering initiating contact with him, Lou It is entirely understandable but imo you are not dealing with a normal person. YOu are in a calm place at the moment - obviously, I don't know the private ins and outs but you come across on here as calm on some level. Perhaps you have partially 'forgotten' the grotesque nature of the things he has done, and how he did them - maybe because, imo, we blank out extreme nastiness because we literally don't know where to put it in our head?

I think you are experiencing a peace not just because you have excellent 360o support but also because you are out of his orbit. get back into his orbit and I think you will have your head scrambled again in that frightening way.

imo it is natural to revert to memories of what the relationship was like before it was abruptly chopped off with an axe. YOu haven't had time to process it properly yet and that takes time - to change the neural pathways, if you like. Your brain is still geared to how it was (or how you thought it was) iyswim - you didn't get the chance to adjust before the whole thing was ripped away in an instant.

You know in your guts it isn't a good idea to contact him so please go with that. YOu need peace now, to hear you heart iyswim. I think you've been getting the peace you need and I am very concerned that reintroducing yourself into his orbit will scramble that peace and you will lose contact with your heart - momentarily, but time is of the essence at the mo and you could do without being knocked off track.

I also think that if there is any running to do, he needs to do it, not you. This is not game-playing, this is keeping yourself safe: he knows the situation you are in but you haven't heard a peep. I'm sorry, I don't buy the 'he's in so much turmoil he doesn't know what to do' - if he wanted to, he would do something.

I am also very concerned that you would give him clues about what you want and need from him - but I am long in the tooth with narcs and it's easy for me to say that it is better he has no hints or clues that he could use in the future. I appreciate that that is a very bleak thought but, ime, narcs are bleak and best kept as far away as possible and out of the loop. Whether he is or isnt a narc, you need to get yourself steady to answer your own question about what to do, without him muddying the waters. He has not been your friend and, while you make this decision, you need non-friends out of the room, as it were.

Portofino · 02/09/2012 19:20

He has ONLY been diagnosed as a Narc by a few posters here. He sounds more like a cowardly custard than a narc to be honest. Agree NOW is not the time to see him, but you WILL need to speak to him eventually.

solarfairylights · 02/09/2012 19:22

Lagartijadoesthecrazyshake Lou herself asked for single parent's experiences, and several of us were happy to oblige, this isn't imposing our views onto Lou, but real life experience can show that the reality is not sometimes as bad as we fear. I myself delurked, as I could see a lot of similarities between myself and Lou, i.e. age, homeowner, supportive friends, neighbours and parents, employment, cat!

By the way, I considered the child, myself and my cat "family", silly as that may sound! We would spend many evenings after bathtime under a fleecey blanket on the couch, reading a story to my toddler smelling of bathtime, with the cat on his lap. However, I am digressing....

There are a lot of presumptions on this thread, and people speaking for Lou, as has been said before, people are over investing. And Lou is clearly a VERY intelligent person.

The OW has stolen her life, so to speak, she is the one expecting a baby with and living with Chutney, and in the position Lou envisaged herself in, why should Lou have to give up her dreams of motherhood? Who is to say he might not want anything to do with the baby? My child's father certainly has not sought nor wanted any contact since the child was 10 days old despite a statement of intent to be "hands on" during pregnancy, although he has paid maintenance via the CSA sporadically.

Lou needs to make this decision based on herself, I agree - but others experiences may help her to realise that single parenthood, despite her dreams of the traditional family unit, is achieveable, and what is more, enjoyable. Also, as stated previously, bollocks to him!

Lagartijadoesthecrazyshake · 02/09/2012 19:26

I know she asked, but I'm not sure how other people's experiences or struggles with loneparenthood help her really, her experiences will be different. I think she needs to work out if she wants the baby and then cross the bridge of his involvement when she comes to it.

Portofino · 02/09/2012 19:30

But Lagertija was not imposing anything. Just stating the reality that Lou has to make a decision on what LOU wants. Her life is not YOUR life Solar. I am sure that if Lou wants the baby she will get lots of help (supportive family and friends etc) to make it work out. It is HER decision and there could be a million good or bad views on single parenting that change nothing.