Evidence/snooping

[angelpinkcar]

Hi there all, I have been slowly thinking I am going mad as my gut feeling tells me my DH is having an affair. I have done all the things that have been suggested on here he either is very good at hiding it or isn't and just want to put this feeling to bed. Is there any ways that have you have found your evidence. I have tried the mobile phone, he deletes all the texts and history and history from the computer, as he explains he has always done it as he doesn't like to clog up the memory. I have gone into the bill. I have tried the give me your phone for the day, which he hasn't done as yet but has had prior warning now. DH I phone doesn't leave his side most of the time but on the odd occasion it does. I just can't help feeling I am missing something, any advice please.

[Springhasarrived]

Mammytoomany I am seriously impressed by your slewthing. Did you ever tell him how you had done it?

[Springhasarrived]

*or even sleuthing.

[Beckamaw]

I am very impressed too Mammy. Wow!

[MammyToMany]

Nope, he still doesn't know. I think he has driven himself crazy trying to work out how I could possibly know. I told him the ow had told me and sent me copies of all their emails, as she was the only other person in the world that knew and because I could quote the messages back at him and told him her email address, he had no option but to believe me. She denied it but the doubt and her anger at him disbelieving her ruined their little fling!

[angelpinkcar]

Well done, I like your style Mammytomany. Yes funny enough since I have alerted him to the fact that I wanted his phone for the day, his phone has been suspiciously quiet. So I will try that one I think. I know the passwords to get into the phone as that would be too suspicious if he changed them. I listen to myself and I think I sound like a demented mad woman, but you are right I need to find out. I also know if I am unhappy I should call it a day, just feel so sad that my marriage is about to end at some point in the near future. All because of what, that I got too boring, fat and naggy,these men really need to take a long hard look at themselves I think. Also I must be choosing the wrong men as an ex cheated on me in the past, really didn't think he would as his ex-wife had cheated on him from the highest order with lots of men. So there you go, thats why I see the warning signs, as been there before. Thanks again for all your advice much appreciated.

[MrsGuyOfGisbourne]

Mammy, you are my hero! Ingenious!!! I would never have been clever enough to think of all that - you should be working for the CIA grin

[0lympia]

Well done MammytoMany! and well done for throwing a spanner in his little relationship on the side too! genius

[angelpinkcar]

Tried to have a talk with DH this evening, didn't go down very well as usual so he went off to bed as usual, probably on his phone haha!!!! I tried to explain how I was feeling and brought up that may be it was our relationship that was making us both unhappy, he replied "may be it is, well you have changed everything else..." Oh well another day over a new one about to begin namasta..xxxxxx

[Springhasarrived]

God Mammy that's so smart!!

This wont help you OP but as I was pretty certain who it was and Ex has ever reason to have this woman on his phone ( as he employed her) my next plan was going to be to change her number under Contacts to my number so I would get the texts he was sending to her. I almost regret it didnt happen as it would have been quite fun...............

[MrsGuyOfGisbourne]

Good idea re changeing her number t yours, but you'd have to rememeber not to call him youslef..( maybe get a cheapo payg for that purpose?) also, what if she rings/texts him and comes up an unknow number? ( I'm sure an ingenious mNetter will have surmounted this obstacle.
Mammy - you will probably have a way t do this!

[fiventhree]

Mine took 5 and a half years to catch, with me having that stupid feeling that I needed proof in case I was wrong.

I see now that you do not need proof, you have enough of it in your hear and head anyway.

Mine used to delete history and he also had cache cleaner on his laptop to 'stop the cookies slowing down the machine.' Of course the real reason was to further delete remaining history etc, so it was hell catching him.

I partly caught him by looking at the options menus in cookies at 'those to include/exclude', where i saw that he had a messenger account.

He said that the original evidence- some photos I found n the laptop over time- we 'accidentally downloaded with music from torrent music sites'.

Then I discovered that because they were in 'received files' that couldnt be true. So he argued that the received files was really downloads and even changed the name of it to received files!

I finally never did get 'proof', but i did move out of the ebdroom after my suspicions were too much, and booked a RElate appt to discuss divorce proceedings as much as anything else. After a month of denial there too, I flatly said I would never believe him and had finally decided I would never move forward at Relate or return to the bedroom without an admission, and a week or two later he fianlly cracked. Only because he didnt want to split up with me, and he knew for a certainty for once that I would never back down.

Men like this, if guilty, can live with your unhappiness (they dont see it as their problem) but they may care more if they want to stay and you firm up.

Some woman on mn at the time did suggest I spent 40 quid on some spycatcher software which records every typed word on a laptop. I bought it, and it was picked up by Norton immediately, which she had denied would happen. That may be useful to you if he doesnt have Norton, though.

Had I managed to put it on, he admitted afterwards that I would have caught him in at least 3 conversations a week with young women.

[fiventhree]

heart not hear

[MonkeyRisotto]

Rather than a software keylogger (most of which will get flagged up by either antivirus or antispyware software, just get a hardware keylogger.

This is a USB one www.maplin.co.uk/usb-key-logger-220172 and this is a PS2 one www.amazon.co.uk/LM-Technologies-Key-Safe-Logger/sim/B001H2VL9E/2?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

It goes between the keyboard and the computer, and records everything, I think you do a specific key combination to output it to windows notepad.

[OneMoreChap]

Ttbh, if you're that suspicious, it's making you unhappy.

Don't stay in an unhappy relationship.

angelpinkcar Wed 22-Aug-12 17:28:03
...All because of what, that I got too boring, fat and naggy,

Lots of men (wince, including me, occasionally) say their wives nag. It's rarely as we paint it. DW 'nags' me to do things I have said I will, so we can spend more quality time together.

If you got "boring" why was that? If you got "fat" why was that - I'd be amazed if he'd stayed sylph-like... Problems in a relationship are rarely one-sided. My XW, who I ended up hating and left would have blamed me for not talking enough to her... I would say it was for not agreeing with her.

[Triffiddealer]

This

Men like this, if guilty, can live with your unhappiness (they dont see it as their problem) but they may care more if they want to stay and you firm up.

fiveinthree - that's so true and what's so hard to comprehend. If I was causing someone pain and hurt, I would want it to stop. It is very hard to understand that some men (and probably women) just don't feel that way, even if it's their 'nearest and dearest', they can live with hurting them as long as they get what they want. Ho hum, you live and learn.

[fiventhree]

Thats true isnt it Triffid.

But if they want something they have agreed not to have, or to do something you have both agreed will not be done, then they do it behind your back. Or they manipulate you to get it.

That's what my h did. He lied fairly often.

Now I see that the wider signs were all there.

It simply did not matter that I could not prove it, as I could prove that he was selfish and a liar and took less responsibility than me in heaps of ways.

So why on earth did I need proof? Surely my suspicions should have been enough, given that I did know already that he was capable of deceit and of not owning his behaviour.

No, instead I just kept thinking that he would never do that, because he said that he would never do that- he was against infidelity and thought men who did it were fools.

But I believed his words, not his general style of living in the relationship - ie his actions. Which were of course supportingly the likelihood that he would do such a thing.

That is the key learning.

[0lympia]

wrt nagging, I would never tolerate not being listened to anymore. I never nagged until I had been ignored a couple of times. Having 'no voice' would drive anybody crazy. I believe most men would lose it quicker if they were being ignored routinely.

[angelpinkcar]

Hi there just an update, I had DH phone for the day unbeknowns to me his ipad is exactly like his iphone, no wonder her gave it over so freely. He has been home this week for a few days and has spent most of it on his ipad, iphone or updating the laptop. Why we need all these gadgets I really don't know and I haven't bought any new clothes for months but we can afford all of these gadgets which have to be paid for some way or another. He has been installing programmes to protect passwords etc,I tried to restore everything on his page on the laptop the other evening to see if I could find anything( mad I know) but he must have found something from the last time I tried to do it and has put something on it to stop it restoring deleted items. I have stopped now as I will go around the bend trying to find out. I am a great believer in things happen for a reason and when the time is right it will happen but I am so impatient and want to find out now though so I can get on with my life with my children and be happy and know where I am going not waiting for him to change or become a happier person with what he has got in life.

[cahu]

angel, I really feel for you. My ex-h was a devoted family man, 2dd's, beautiful home etc. He also worked away a couple of nights a week. Went through a bad patch, had a predatory ex waiting in the wings, changed slowly over a 6 month period to an absolute shit.

Like yours his phone did not leave his side. He then gaslighted me for the next few years. I knew in that first 6 months he was up to something because my instincts told me so. If I'd had the power of Mumsnet behind me then, believe me, it would not have taken 3 years to get away.

He also has a difficult family and a narcisstic mother who all knew about the affair and were encouraging him behind my back! He was hedging his bets but also didnt want to look like the bad guy walking out on his kids. Its hell, but there will be a lot of handholding here if you need it. x

[angelpinkcar]

Hi Cahu, how did you find out in the end? I don't know some days I think and feel he is well at it and then other days I think umm may be I am imagining it. Ot it could be our relationship is so crap and I should just get out and looking for a way out but not got the courage, money etc to do it.

[Yogii]

This might not be much help as you seem to want to find the evidence, and I can understand that....... I cleared my history when I was having an affair, and now that it's over I don't.

Clearing history does not 'free up memory'. If you didn't clear any history for a few years there would be no discernable difference in the performance of the computer.

[cahu]

He was seen in a bar with her by a member of my family. This was after having our sun room re-modeled and a new kitchen! He still tried to talk his way out of it and then 6 months later the OW stopped me in Sainsburys and told me to stop blackmailing him, with the house and children...!

I started divorce proceedings and it took another 2 years for the divorce to come through as it went to court. He wouldn't move out in this time, used the house like a hotel, used to work away for a few days and hide my car keys etc etc. She was his first wife, he was her second husband. She was having an affair with a guy she worked with when they were together, whom she went on to marry and divorce....

They are still together and just heard yesterday they are getting married at Xmas. Her 4th wedding, she is wearing big dress etc. However 6 months after my divorce he tried to get back with me!!!! They were living together then and this continued until I photographed his texts to me on my iphone and sent them to her last year...!

[BerylStreep]

Angel, he sounds very disrespectful to you, and the clearing history, deleting texts, and installing anti-spy software screams affair. Do you really need evidence?

If you are intent on trying to find evidence, and he is so aware of the phone / iPad security, perhaps a voice activated dictaphone in his car would be the answer?

[fiventhree]

Angel- I was in your shoes, and I didnt get 'proof'. I did see photos of women- about 5 on four occasions over a nearly six year period. He just explained them away. He also did what your h did, which was to change his passwords, deny he had etc. eg he would agree not to do so, then change the first letter into a capital one or some other sneaky strategy.You simply cant pin down a man like this.

I should have done what I did in the end- which was as follows:

1. the usual, confront him
   

1. listen to his denials
   

3 go away and worry like buggery that I may be wrong even through I sort of knew it all did just not add up, and then.......(and here is the different bit)

4 this time, I went back and said I had thought it all through yet again, and I still wasnt happy. There was too much tiny stuff, too many coincidences, too much general obfuscation and deceit. Fundamentally, I dont believe you.

5 Move into the spare bedroom and declare war

6 Listen to him tell our kids I was mad, and tell me I had invented all this because I had nothing else i my life etc etc. That bit hurt, and was truly shitty of him, because my work had dried up at that time, and I was very worried and sad by it, and had spent many years supporting him to get a career.

7 Eventually we went to Relate. He was hoping it would all blow over, and that I would move on from that particular focus when there. I didnt- I said I thought he was unfaithful and lying to me, heard is denial, and allowed the conversation to go in other directions for a few weeks. BUT, whenever the counsellor came back to me, even after some general improvements in the relationship, I said that I could not or would not move forward unless he talked to me honestly about my suspicions.

8 A week or two later, he backed down, and then I discovered there had been hundreds, and way less than half his age.

Angel, you know already, dont you, you just know. It wont ever go away, and there is no hope unless it comes out.

I so remember months and even a year passing where I 'let it go', but it always came back, the slight evidence grew, and he became shittier to live with all the time. It was a horrible time. Trust your instincts and escalate the finding out strategy however you can, or walk.

[janelikesjam]

Truly awestruck at your story Mammy, your patience and initiative