Separation & beyond.. Lala goes forth!!!

[LalaDipsey]

Hi everyone. Well, the saga continues. H turned up for his single 'abuse assessment session' on Monday to find that the counsellor had, by mistake, booked him in for Wednesday instead of Monday! I was fuming!
I spoke to them and said it may just be one more week to them, but to me I had mentally psyched myself up for H to have this DV assessment and was then ready for a session this Monday coming either together or on my own. Nothing could be done but I was gutted as I had hoped us to be significantly further along by next week and now we won't be.
On the plus side, night 3 of sleep training tonight so hoping for a massive improvement.
Had no idea what to call this thread... Felt this was still the right place as I extricate us from this relationship but I hope by the time this reaches 1000 posts H has either moved out, or is living here whilst the divorce is being processed so I hope the title sums that up!!
Thanks for everyone still with me

Lala, you are spot on. You will always be confused by his behaviour until you stop letting him. You do need to be really strong - you are a strong woman, so believe in yourself - and tell him to go until he's got himself sorted.

He will try to charm you at first. Please spend as much time away from him as you can, surround yourself with ordinary people and things, and try to remember how human responses are meant to be.

Agree with Noway.......chuck the git out once and for all

Lala remember when I said to make a note in your diary of "one month since H said he would stop drinking", "two months since H said he would stop drinking" etc, otherwise time would just fly by and you'd get sucked back into a relentless merry-go-round of him promising to change / making half-hearted attempts to change / falling off the wagon / promising to change etc?

Well, how old are your twins now? Eight months? It seems to me that you have spent most of that time worrying about your H; keeping out of the way of your H; trying to keep your DCs safe from your H; reading up about alcoholism and emotional abuse; seeing counsellors/solicitors; getting advice from here etc. Think about how much of your time and energy has been spent focusing on your H and his issues! When it could have been directed towards making your children's lives and your life happy instead.

You ask whether your H is capable of sustained change? None of us can possibly know in advance. I've seen people drink themselves to death; others who continue to drink despite having children put into care, forced adoptions, no job, no friends, no money etc. And one - just one - who has been tee-total for 20 years. Interestingly, he wasn't the one who reached "rock bottom", he just decided for himself that enough was enough.

Given that you cannot change anyone else, only they can do that for themselves, you do not need to live with your H whilst he makes this attempt at change. If he's serious, he'll do it whether you are with him or not. Indeed, as others have said, your leaving should be a really strong motivator for him to sort himself out.

Lala, on some levels you are not living in the here and now at all and on some levels you are living in the mini-micro version of the here and now. You are avoiding looking reality in the eye no matter what mode you are in.

You are living day to day with someone who is gradually doing your head in and you are able to acknowledge that.
At the same time you are able to say 'He isn't being abusive/vile/swearing atm. It's not an unhealthy atmosphere'.

It is the fact that you include the 'atm' that should tell you that you all you need to know in order to make your decision.

You need to ask yourself if you are able to live with the shoe constantly in danger of dropping, or the axe permanently poised over your head, whatever metaphor you like to use. This is not what a relationship is supposed to be like.

Why would you choose to pin your hopes for your and your babies' future happiness on something completely unpredictable and uncontrollable both on a day to day level and years down the road while ignoring the fact that you yourself could be in charge of your own destiny and your own happiness, and ensuring your DCs' happiness if you were alone.

You need to ask yourself why you are inclined to put your trust in your H's capacity to change and not take the step of changing yourself.

You need to ask yourself if you want to shirk your responsibility to yourself and to your children and put all that responsibility for your happiness and your children's in his hands instead. As long as you think there is a capacity for change on his part, as long as you wonder if there is the remotest possibility that this could happen, you are willing to sacrifice more and more of the DCs' lives in order to find out, and it seems to me you are too willing to take that shortcut and avoid the challenge of making the separation a physical reality.

As to capacity for change -- your H is not doing the Lundy book work, or working on himself. There are far more hurdles for him than accepting responsibility. He cannot simultaneously claim to be doing the work, making progress, and getting drunk, being too hungover to be a husband and father, and being all bright and smiley once the hangover is gone. That is the polar opposite of making progress. It is in fact exactly the same as the behaviour that went on pre-counselling only with the sugar coating of individual counselling to use as a carrot for you.

Stop looking at tiny micro elements of his behaviour out of context. You are grasping at straws. You are once again failing utterly to respect the alcohol.

You need to ask yourself why you keep on doing this.

Please get the books I linked to a few posts back and when you have the time go through them.

I do think you are 'getting there' though and I know it is hard.

xxxx

Great post, math, as always. Lala, please think hard about what math is saying.

You are still going round and round on the not-so-merry-go-round. Your children are getting older. Your dd is learning from you, shaping her behaviour from the example she is set, by you and by your dh. She is learning all the time about how relationships work, learning it from you two. She sees the ups and downs of h's behaviour and how you respond. One day, she'll be doing it herself, either as the abusive alky or as the crushed and fearful and indecisive wife. This is how it works. You know it. You badly, urgently, need to break the pattern, to show your children - especially your dd - how life can be lived with gaiety and joy, confidence and delight.

I don't know if I am coming across as admonitory, bullying, angry or what. I am, in fact, dreadfully, dreadfully sad. My dd's best friend's family is an abusive one. The friend, at the age of 12 (12!!! ) now has a boyfriend who hits her, just like her dad hits her mum. 12! 12 years old and she's being hit. For her, it is "just what happens". I cannot do any more for her, though she knows that if she ever needs help she can come here. I have had to tell dd she can no longer see her as they go to the beach, meet up with the boy, hang out until he hits dd's friend, when they both come home in tears. I don't want dd to normalise this. I don't want her to see it. There is more, so much more, and it's been going on for years. According to the friend's mum, her daughter learnt by the time she was 4 to gauge daddy's mood and keep clear.

I am hiding this thread now. I'm sorry Lala. I'm sorry for you and for your babies.

I would be really grateful if someone would pm me about how things turn out for you Lala; your story will worry me for years otherwise.

Listen to them both Lala. You MUST tear yourself away from this man, you must stop enabling him. You must make him leave. If he is serious he will change on his own, he will NEVER change as things stand now, why would he, there is no incentive to. All is will do is drag you all down with him. I grew up in a house like that, it wasn't pretty. You don't need to "line up your ducks", just tell him it's over and to leave. If he has any respect for you he will go.

Lala, you are NEVER EVER going to KNOW if or when h is going to change. Please understand this.
This cycle of being 'father/husband of the year' for a day then 2-3 days of selfish, abusive, pissed waste of space with continue till the day he dies. Especially if you continue to live together and enable this bullshit.

So STOP asking yourself and him the question.

Stop now.

You've wondered, analysed and agonised over this for years and are still no closer to finding out.

YOU WILL NEVER KNOW IF HE WILL CHANGE

You have had very clear advice here that he's not going to change.

You have had the very clear message from him- even if you can't or won't see it -that he's not willing to change. He's had enough chances ffs, and he's ignored every single one.

All the time you insist on wondering and asking this same question and delaying separation you are denying your children a happier childhood.

Thd title of your threads were 'dh hates being a father'

Don't your dc deserve more than this dreadful waiting around for him to change?? Like math said- your family's happiness is being passed over to your h to control.

I know that no matter what my feeling were for a man, of his for me or what was going on between us, I could not stay with anyone if they showed the same dislike and contempt for parenting his own dc that your h does.

It's time to stop putting your 'relationship' first and start putting your dc's needs first - which is creating a happy family environment for them. Your h will not do this, they are relying on you to do it and by stalling you are letting them down.

Lala: My DS's dad was just like your OH. By the time DS was 2.5 we were out. Yes, it was tough on my own, but my DS is now 15, and absolutely lovely. His spirit wasn't crushed by his Dad.

I couldn't stay to be abused by his Dad and let DS be abused either. We HAD to go. His Dad never changed, although he "talked the talk" he couldn't/wouldn't "walk the walk", so I did.

Best thing I ever did for both myself and DS.

Just catching up with your thread Lala. Please listen to the good advice you are being given here.

All I can say is that your H can change. But he won't do it while you are living together. He has no reason. He likes the things they way the are. If you really think he can change, the best thing you an do is tell him to go. To sort out his drinking and reflect on how he can be the husband and father you need. If he is capable of change and being to good man he might take up the opportunity. If he isn't, he won't, but at least he won't be living in your house, messing with your head, making your life unhappy.

You can do it Lala. You want to do it.

Hope all is well with you Lala. x

Hi all. I am ok. Solicitor was good last week I will be happy to use him.
Counselling good today.
H had a personality transplant last 6 days. Been caring, helpful etc.
I don't know what I am going to do. I don't know if I care for him anymore. I don't know.
I know you all have really strong opinions on this.
H isn't being verbally abusive or throwing things. He is being a better father and person right now. I am aware of the cycle of abuse and yes he could be honeymooning and it could all crash down. I am not opening my heart, mind or body to him. I am, for a little while, going to watch and wait.
Maybe he will keep it up. Maybe it's too late anyway but the dc will have a better father out of it. Maybe he will be one of the statistically extremely few men to change.
I don't know. I told him in counselling today that I don't know. He asked if I wanted to want to work things out. I said I don't know.
Counsellor asked if i could pick a future

• me on my own, happy with dc
• me with H and dc, happy OR
• me with dc and a new partner, happy

Which would I choose? I said I didn't know. That's telling I suppose as if it was H I should know that but it wasn't my answer. I'm having a session on my own next week. Jux - I am very sorry for your dd friend. Very sorry. It's a heartbreaking tale.

What about the drinking?

He is drinking still. 2 small bottles of lager a night. One of the things I said today was that I didn't know if I could accept this. I dont feel like I know a lot tbh!!

Lala, so good to see you posting again and I'm glad that H is behaving for now, if only because it gives you some respite. I can only say this; I think you'll have a much clearer head and will be able to make decisions when (not if) you have decent time alone. You need to breathe, to be able to relax, talk and work out how you feel without input or influence from H. He owes you that much at the very least.

Off topic:
Does anyone on this thread remember WorldOfUncertainty (wou)? She posted months and months ago in a very bad state, shed given birth prematurely, baby was unwell and she was in agony. Her H had been having an affair, was cruel enough to invite OW to the house to watch the baby whilst Wou rested etc... She couldn't quit him, to quote a film. No matter how badly he treated her (and believe me, it was agonising to read), she was almost accepting, resigned to it maybe. Ultimately she was very confused, she wanted her idea of a family and found it so difficult to accept that her H would never give her what she wanted. After weeks and weeks of posting, she vanished. Lala's confusion reminds me a lot of Wou's, and whilst I don't understand it (I'm not in their shoes) I almost wish they could talk to eachother.

Many other posters have said this lala, but you really need to get him out and separate so that you can find the answers to the questions you are unsure of.

If he really does WANT to change and is ABLE to change he will do this for you.
You need to do this to regain some balance of power back in your relationship. At the moment he calls the shots and he likes it like this.

Look, when I met my dh he was a bit if an arsehole. Nothing compared to your h (if you don't mind me saying so) and we were in a very different situation- no dc, not married etc. But he was playing a few silly mind games and just not treating me all that well. He was trying to establish himself as the one with the power in the relationship.

So I told him i knew what hd was doing, i wasn't going to stand for it because i deserved better and I ended the relationship.

I moved out. It was easier for me I know- we didn't own a house together back then..

I cut him out of my life as much as I could. I meant it. I deleted his number from my phone, I deleted his email. I could remember them but just the act of doing this made it final.

He got annoyed, then upset. He begged me to go back. Promised he'd never treat me badly again. I said no, I needed space. I stood my ground. I really did want and need space to think and be on my own. I just wasn't sure this was the man for me.

He respected that, and for a few weeks he left me alone, even though he didn't want to. He respected what I needed.

Then he tracked me down and asked that I meet him- we ended up getting back together again.

We are not perfect and have other niggles like all couples.. BUT he did change in that he has never tried to play mind games and certainly doesn't see himself as the one in control. We are a partnership.

He respects me because I readdressed the balance of power and demanded an equal partnership. He has said to me on more than one occasion that he saw our relationship in a different light because I stood my ground and didn't allow him to 'have his own way'. He also said that he loves me and when you think you'll lose someone you love you do anything to prove it to them.

Lala, if your dh is capable if changing and truly loves and respects you he'll work this out the way you want. You may decide you don't want him back. You may decide you do if he proves to you he's changed.

If he is threatening you with "if you make me leave, I won't ever cone back' then I'm afraid this is a big red flag that he has no intention of 'changing'.

He just wants things to revolve around him, for him to be in control, and for you to be submissive. As usual.

I know your situation is different but just some food for thought.

Keep going, keep questioning. You are doing well.
To deal with this and 3 dc incl twins is nothing short of amazing.

Xxx

I remember WOU

Sigh.

:(

Lala - if you end up sticking with him and giving this a go because you really believe he can change then I think you should also have a VERY clear thought that if it does begin to slide back to unacceptable then that WILL be IT! The danger of all of this is that you end up on a continuous cycle of ups and downs that will never end - it is documented clearly by everyone supporting you here. It's a cycle that will be the death of you and your family. I think you are treading very thin ice but can understand why. You a re already going back on limits that you set - the main one being the drinking still continues REGALRDLESS of how much or often - you said this had to stop but now you are making justifications for it and ACCEPTING it. Do you see the danger in all this?? How in a short space of time you are backing down and he is not. The next will be a smallish incident of poor behaviour but you will reason it and justify it and here we go again....... The most frightening thing is how much you have said in recent posts that you are really questioning if you have any feelings left for him - so why cling on???? I think getting out to talk to other single mums would really benefit you to see that its totally doable and that you can exist away from him on your own. Wishing you well as always x

PLEASE get him to leave, albeit on a temporary basis. It is the only way you will get through this confusion. SFN is right that the boundaries you set are slipping. If he has flipped a magic switch then great, but remember that his ability to do this means he was choosing his behaviour before. He needs to leave to give you clear headspace to think, to demonstrate to you that he can maintain his good behaviour, and, if he slips, your dc are not in the line of fire.

If he won't live elswhere for a little while and won't give up drinking, i don't think the signs are that good for any lasting renaissance. It is good that you recognise the cycle of abuse, but i can't understand why you would risk putting your dc through it until you can be sure you can trust him. Surely this is the bottom line - it almost doesn't matter what you do or don't feel for him, you have to know that you can trust him to be a decent father to your children, whether or not the two of you stay together.

If you separated how would you feel about him having access to the dc unsupervised?

Hope your dd's uti is better.

HE'S STILL DRINKING LALA. He's not changed one jot. It's all talk while he's still drinking, it reall really is. This will go on and on for the rest of your and your children's lives.....if you let it.
He has to leave. If he cleans up his act, stops drinking, goes to AA, has therapy and after all that you decide you still love him, well brilliant. But until he does all that then all you are doing is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic and damaging your children EVERY SINGLE DAY.
Stand up for them, they are too little. Stand up and protect them. Tell him to leave now.

Lala, can you read back from when you first posted? I wonder if that might help to remind you of how this man behaves. I hope that the new him stays but as others have said, I suspect there'll be a gentle slide

Hope you are okay Lala.

I am beginning to hope he will be horrible for longer. Because every time he's nice, even for a day, you think 'well I can't do anything now just in case it lasts'. Experience doesn't seem to be teaching you that he isn't choosing to change.

He'll have to be awful for a long time for you to get out.

In a way I understand because it must be awful to tear your family apart and to be the one to make that decision.

I don't want you to feel criticised because this should be a place of support.

I just wish you could find the strength to get him to leave.

How are you doing Lala? Hope all is OK.

Any improvement with the UTI? Hope the ABs have worked.