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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

womens attitudes to crossdressing

881 replies

calikid · 29/07/2012 01:16

hi everyone,

i write this as a response to the numerous comments on a variety of posts regarding reaction to any stories where crossdressing is a subject. Firstly i'd like to make it clear that i am male and as such appreciate i may be laying myself bare to the onslaught of comment that is likely to come my way. although male i love to wear "womens clothes". What I would like to know is simply why shouldn't I. can anyone give me one valid reason why I shouldn't? because I have never been able to think of one.
I am happily married with two dds and a beautiful wife , all of whom i love very much. My wife knows all about my dressing and has been with me to a couple of tv gatherings. i told her not long after we got together and she was totally fine with it, we have been married now for 8 yrs. we do not let the children know as they are still quite young.
In all other respects I am very much one of the lads......I like football and beer (but then so do many women!), i work in construction, I teach martial arts, I help with housework , I don't mind ironing(coz i can do it while watching tv!)
I take a size 10 and look pretty good in a skirt and heels, but then so does my wife, its just she can do it whenever she pleases and good for her. its just the injustice and ignorance of society that infuriates me.
I'm curious to know how the rest of women feel about the issue

OP posts:
Freddiemisagreatshag · 07/05/2013 14:11

It was the other things mine liked that did it for me too Tethers Grin

fluffyraggies · 07/05/2013 14:25

Lol. He's quite big and hairy, yes.

I wondered if you would comment on the 'looking idiotic' bit Cali. I thought you might. I deleted it twice, then left it in because it's true. It's my gut reaction.

If my DH wanted to wear, say, a sarong on the beach, or perhaps wanted to lounge around in a skirtish sort of garment i'd be ok.

(i'd be surprised, as he's the kind of bloke that would say 'i'm not wearing that - it looks like a bloody skirt!', but we're not discussing his attitude, we're discussing mine, so ...)

If, however he wore a skirt which was more obviously a feminine design (pencil skirt? ra ra skirt? flouncy summer skirt) and/or wore the heels to go with, then i would see him parodying a women. I honestly think he would look ridiculous. In my eyes, unless he was larking around, i would think he looked idiotic.

See, on the premise that a man has covered his privates in public i believe:

  • He (and ever other man on the planet) has every right to wear what he wants to wear. Absolutely.
  • He should be able to wear what he wants without fear of physical or verbal attack.
  • This goes for all people, male or female.

but

  • I have every right to think someone looks a prat in what they're wearing.
  • I have a right to be turned off by something my husband has decided to do.

Neither of the last 2 points impinge on your right to dress as a woman. Or wear woman's clothes. Or how ever you want to describe it. If my husband announced that he has secret desires to start wearing over sized baby clothes around the house i'd be turned off by that too. It might well ruin our relationship.

This too is nothing to do with your desire to wear a skirt. I'm not married to you, I'm married to him. And i'm married to the him he presents and presented himself as when we got together. I have a perfect right not to want to be married to a cross dresser. That doesn't make me a bigot, or in need of educating.

latebreakfast · 07/05/2013 16:45

I have a right to be turned off by something my husband has decided to do

Interesting one that. Suppose you decided to take up boxing. You were excited watching it and really wanted to try it. But your DH came to you and said:

"Look hear Fluffy, I really don't feel comfortable with you doing something like that - you look far too masculine and it turns me off. I'd much rather you did something more feminine like needlework or cookery".

Would you acquiesce gracefully? Or would you send him packing back to the 1950s and continue doing it even if it made him uncomfortable? How would you feel with your DH telling you that he felt you were "not feminine enough". Sure he'd have a right to do that - but would it be a reasonable thing for you to do?

FWIW, I think the OP has been confusing and contradictory and doesn't really know what he wants - but I also think there are many interesting contradictions between behaviour that's acceptable for men and behaviour that's acceptable for women.

Offred · 07/05/2013 17:21

It isn't your clothing preferences as you well know cali. As I have said many times before.

It is your stuffing of a bra etal. I don't think I need to repeat myself again tbh.

Are you being wilfully ignorant now?

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen · 07/05/2013 17:24

A sport and a skirt is a confusing analogy. (At least to me)

Also FWIW, boxing isn't a good example due to... Well... Ever hear of things such as 'foxy boxing or mud wrestling?' Grin yet [boak]

However I see where you're coming from, but I (personally, my opinion) believe that stuffing a bra -as OP says he does- isn't the same as taking up a gender stereotypical job/sport. Merely because it is sexual/sensual whatever.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen · 07/05/2013 17:26

Cross post Offred!

Yes we's being wilfully ignorant, he's here to educate us silly wimminz on why he 'just wants to wear a skirt' and us silly wimminz are bigots if not aroused by him

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen · 07/05/2013 17:27

We = Him... Freduin slip? Grin No, OP is just really pissing me off.

FreddieMisaGREATshag · 07/05/2013 17:31

I wonder if he likes the same sort of other things my ex used to like as well

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen · 07/05/2013 17:37

IMHO he does like the other things as well. Why else be so damn angry, misinterpret everything and blame the women who don't want a CD partner? (His response to a poster saying 'well if he is CD why would he come out if your attitude is you're not attracted to it?!?) plus the bigest one of all... I came here to educate women.

All this man has taught me is he is very repressed in some ways, blames women, is very insecure and most of all deeply unhappy. I hope he realises one day while he's busy being outraged by innocent and completely fair comments on his narrow minded crusade, he is able to accept himself instead of seeking approval.

Oh OP, not saying you're gay, but you are clearly repressing something IMHO. You're extremely angry and come across misogynist and uneducated in certain areas. I hope you deal with your anger, I feel sorry for you. (I mean that sincerely.)

AnyFucker · 07/05/2013 17:44

I just think he is a complete BORE

Give it a fucking rest, fgs

fluffyraggies · 07/05/2013 19:44

No, no - we can do the boxing analogy .... i think.

If i wanted to do something which DH was seriously unhappy about because (for whatever reason) it made him feel really uncomfortable, then we would talk, and i would consider his thoughts and feelings and make a decision based on how reasonable i thought he was being in conjunction with how much i love him/what sacrifices or allowances he makes for me/how far i would be willing to accommodate his feelings on this 'thing' i had decided to start doing.

I love him, and he and i pretty much sing from the same song sheet with regards to social perceptions, values, attitudes etc. It would be a surprise to me to find him very against something i really wanted to do. But i would take his concern seriously.

Honesty from the outset with your partner leading on to finding love and compatibility with them surely means that the chance of either party suddenly announcing a deep desire to do something the other finds ... unacceptable within the relationship ... is pretty slim. No?

It's hard to come up with an analogy to match a partner suddenly announcing the need or intention to cross dress. I would feel very much as if i had ''had the wool pulled over my eyes'' if a long term partner or husband sprung this on me.

tethersend · 07/05/2013 20:31

Freudian slip

LostMyIdentityAlongTheWay · 07/05/2013 20:47

fluffyraggies which is what my dh did, which is why it has caused such almight fucking ructions in my marriage.

Not that this is the best phrase to use for you, OP, but seriously.... being a XD is the least of your problems. You're a touch 'it's all about me', you bang on bloody relentlessly about you you you and take FAR too much interest in your personal appearance.

It's good to have a hobby and all that, but FGS get over yourself! As I've said - you're not that interesting. And it's really not just me that thinks this, unless that part of this thread has passed you by...

LemonPeculiarJones · 07/05/2013 21:26

All this man has taught me is he is very repressed in some ways, blames women, is very insecure and most of all deeply unhappy. I hope he realises one day while he's busy being outraged by innocent and completely fair comments on his narrow minded crusade, he is able to accept himself instead of seeking approval.

This.

AnyFucker · 07/05/2013 21:35

To me, he sounds like the worst kind of obsessed and one-tracked wanger I always have to give the Evil Eye to at parties

FarBetterNow · 07/05/2013 22:11

My XH was a CD.
He was obsessive too.
It was a real turn off, because when he dressed up he looked like his DM.
But he couldn't see what the problem was either.
I didn't want to have sex with a bloke who looked and dressed like my MIL.

Lucylloyd13 · 09/05/2013 08:09

The durability of this thread is fascinating in itself.

Some strands emerge.

Most women have no problem with men presenting as women, but do have a problem with their partners, whom they had entered into a relationship with on an m/f basis ,wanting to shift the territory.

Men who crossdress do so for many reasons, from bedroom fetishist to a desire to surgically transition. However many men who do crossdress need to experience exploring their feminine side to determine where it will all end. In some circumstances that destination may be acceptable to a female partner, in others it may not.

calikid · 09/05/2013 10:24

lucy, you make the point I have made on many occasion and stand by, that often it is the lack of honesty and secrecy surrounding the activities of many cds that causes alot of relationship problems. i have been honest with my partner from the start and this has both given her the choice whether or not to continue our relationship. note i say that she had a choice and i have never advocated that women shouldn't have that choice!
it has also given me the choice, that if she hadn't accepted me then i could also have ended the reelationship. it works both ways as it should in a trusting relationship!

the only other thing that i have added to this is the explanantion thta often the secrecy is as a result of the fear that if the man loves the woman they might lose her over this. I don't and have never condoned secrecy, i have merely attempted to analyse why it happens.

I also suggest that the exploration of their feminity, if thats what we'll call it, is exacerbated by societys unacceptance and thus they are driven to greater lenghts to attempt to appear more like women in appearance in an attempt not to be read as men in dresses. If society was more accepting then more men would simply dress in the clothes and present as men. not necessarily all, but there would certainly be a percentage who wouldn't bother with all the trappings of wigs, bras, make up etc.

OP posts:
FreddieMisaGREATshag · 09/05/2013 10:26

What exactly is your point calikid? Because I am struggling to understand why this thread is still going after all this time when virtually everyone on the thread has told you that if you want to dress up in skirts/makeup/dresses/wigs/breastforms/heels/whatever knock yourself out.

Lweji · 09/05/2013 12:05

In all honesty, if your female partner started acting very much like a stereotypical man, when you had fallen by a typical female, would you still view her in the same way, OP?

calikid · 09/05/2013 13:11

Thats an interesting question Lweji.

But what do you consider acting like a "stereotypical man?"

She does lots of things that are may be considered stereotypically "male", ( but not by me I add!!) she wear trousers alot, she does alot of diy around the house and garden, she works in a high pressure environment as a section boss, she often drives faster than she should and i have to tell her off, which has led to arguments on more than one occasion! but then shes the one who hasn't got the clean licence. Is that what you mean?

I still love her very much and vice versa

OP posts:
FreddieMisaGREATshag · 09/05/2013 13:16

I think the point was that if she's always done these things, then that makes them part of who you fell in love with, but if suddenly she starting doing them, then that would be a sea change in the type of person she was.

It's not really about the things in and of themselves.

Apols to Lweji if I've got that wrong.

calikid · 09/05/2013 13:20

i refer you back, in that case to my post at 10:24am

OP posts:
FreddieMisaGREATshag · 09/05/2013 13:23

Do you mean to be so rude?

I refer you to the possibility that the cd might not be the problem with women's attitudes and all that - it might be you.

What are you getting from this thread and why are you persisting in keeping it going?

Bottom line, most posters have said go ahead dress however you like as long as you're open and honest with your partner there's no problem.

End of thread. Anything more is just circular wanky bollocks. It really is.

calikid · 09/05/2013 13:31

freddie..........if you don't like it then don't read or post on it

OP posts:
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