Shocked at Dh's past, he needs to distance himself

[pumpkinsweetie]

I have been with my dh for 8yrs, we have 3 dc together & my dd1, whom he has bought up.
Since we have been together, every few weeks he goes into a deep depressive mood that can last days or even up to a week!
Lately he always seems to be like it, most days and it has started to affect our relationship so i have questioned him on why he gets like it, and he has told me his dad beat him as a boy.
His parents have always caused issues for us, basic backstory :mil has insulted my dd1 continually about how she is not her blood!, pil for a year had dh doing their house up every weekend, pil are always askinh for grand gestures of money towards expensive birthday gifts, the last one being an allotment digger thingy that we put £80 towards after being continually harrassed for it, they now want a dh to pay a fith towards a solid gold watch for mil 60th-the watch will cost around £1700 split 5 ways!!, the next is pil constantly buying sil's dcs expensive uniform & clarks shoes when she doesn't spend a penny on my dcs, there are a lot of other things but don't wanna make it too long.
Anyway upon my recent discovery of my dhs past, i now look back on this past year and realise they have been phoning him at work and asking for this money and bragging about what they buy their other gks, not to mention putting him down calling him jellybelly and telling him to lie to me about them phoning me.
We had a long talk last night, and i know he was hit with a belt, thumped, and shouted at when he was a child by his father and we have made a joint decision to cut them out of our lifes as they bring nothing happy to his life.
The thing is he is very scared of his father and his mother does nothing but stick up for fil.
How do we break free from this awful family without causing a show-down iyswim-how do you slowly distance yourself ?
Has anyone managed to break free from an abusive controlling family without too much trouble?
The last thing i want is fil at my door as he scares me also

Pumpkin, a big warning (BTDT) - you cannot do this for your H. You must stay out of it.

You will get very understandable feelings of anger, resentment, outrage, unfairness - do not express them to his family.

Do you know what happens then? You, the outsider, becomes the scapegoat and named 'the troublemaker' and they ALL turn on you. And your H, because that is the position he has always had, can't see it and won't lift a finger to help you. How can he? He has never been able to stop them doing it to him.

And then there is bad blood between you two, because in your eyes he wasn't there for you. So just saying it again, do not try and fight his battles for him.

The only thing you can do, is assure him you love him and it is true that he is unfairly treated, and it is true that they are horrible to him and he IS the dustbin of the family.

This is his journey and his battle to do.

It is very hard to stay out of it, as whilst i allow them to see dh, dh becomes almost depressive and it is affecting our relationship.
If i sit back and allow this charade to go on our relationship will not last as dh goes into deep moods, shouts at me, shouts at the children and i will not allow it to continue.
I would take a step back if it didn't affect me or the children but him seeing them affects everyone and i don't think thats fair iyswim.
Im not too bothered what his family think of me, considering fil ranting at my house on mothers day told dh "i don't fucking care if i don't see you or gks ever again"-this was because it was 9:30am and we hadn't delivered mil present by that point.
Next week fil completley forgot he had said it and told mil who was on my drive "don't bring any lunch for them tell them to fucking buy it themselves", under his breath thinking i couldn't hear.
They are truely awful, and its laughable they think they can control me too

Actually Abit, it was when DH's family turned on me too that he was finally able to make the break - he was able to allow them to treat him badly, but he wouldn't stand for them doing it to me.

So, yes they probably think it's all my fault and it did happen exactly as you say for a while, but it's not all bad

Pumpkin, DH doesn't have to actually go for counselling, he just uses it as a way to control the situation.

Anything he doesn't want to do, he can say the 'counsellor' advised him not to.

PIL sound really nasty and may well try to use it as a way to claim he is unstable, but counselling implies that 'outsiders' are also observing the family dynamics.It may just reign them in.

Great idea Finally, we are going to try it if they question us as to why we are not seeing them.
So far me & dh are cancelling pil weekly visit, hopefully they won't phone him and pull at his heartstrings!-ive told him not to answer the phone if their caller id comes up and if he happens to answer it, he is to explain he is too busy at work/with kids to talk.
I avoid all phonecalls from them as it makes my life easier!
Got my dd bday on saturday, one of my nieces is coming as she has already been invited but im expecting sil just to drop niece off, im sure she will make a comment as to why we haven't seen mil this week, i plan on saying "we are very busy lately" and to leave it like that!
Any mention of that blasted watch and im going to march sil out of the building as its my dds birthday not mil
Updates to come when there is more to report

Pumpkin
Yes, your husband is in an abusive relationship with his family but I agree with abitwobbly, any decisions about his relationship with them needs to come from him.
You are stuck between a rock and a hard place, you have clarity and can see the effect his family has on him but I think pushing him to make decisions could backfire badly on you. I would be encouraging him to seek counselling. Someone entirely separate to the situation will be able to gently talk him through it at his own pace.
He is at the beginning of a long and painful journey that will gradually see him gaining in strength and confidence. He can then make his own decision, supported by you.

I was in a similar situation to your husband and in fact I haven't seen most of my family for 17 years. I don't see any of them now but I saw some family members until fairly recently when I realised my relationship with them was just as poisonous. It was a huge relief for me when I finally made the decision. But it was my decision and it came from a need inside of me to break contact. If I'd been pushed into doing it I would have had unresolved feelings of guilt and confusion.

If and when he finally gets to that point, it's easy to break contact. He will be strong, he'll have clear boundaries and he will be mentally separate from them already. I found that making my own decisions away from my families manipulative behaviour was disturbing enough for them to threaten to break contact and so I let it happen. They understood then that I wasnt prepared to put up with them anymore.
I would encourage you to get some support too, this situation is a challenge to your own boundaries too and in the meantime you are supporting a husband with depression. Difficult stuff to deal with.

Thankyou for the advice life, at the moment he wants to separate from them too, i haven't put him up to it but of course im happy he has decided to break-away.
If he however he changes his mind, there isn't much i can do, and he will just spiral downhill even more.
I think councselling will be good, but as you say i can't make him do anything until he is ready.
Im just hoping for both our sakes that he is commited to keeping away from them, but it is going to be hard for him to break away from his family, i just wish his sister was more on his side but she isn't.
Its a long journey ahead, lets hope he doesn't end up back under their 'clutches'

Finally's advice re writng letter saying counsellor has suggested breaking off contact is brilliant. Also to make clear that this is because of his childhood experiences.

Agree with everyone that you are doing the right thing cutting out this family. And completely understand your anger.

However, you've come out with a lot of combative talk - you are anticipating confrontations and fantasising about how you will deal with them. It's very admirable that you love your husband and want to leap to his defence, but it won't help taking this approach, I promise you.

However badly they abuse(d) him, they are his family and there are ties there and love, even if it's mixed in with lots of other feelings. If you set yourself up as his defender and their enemy, you will cause him anguish and he will feel even more tormented than he does already. I echo what others have said about leaving it to him.

You also said your dh has said he doesn't see why you should move away... sure, in principle, why the hell should you go through that upheaval when they are the ones 'in the wrong'? But it's not about who is right and who is wrong, it's about living your lives and raising your family in a healthy atmosphere. I wonder also if your dh is reluctant to move because, as others have suggested, he is not ready to break with his family. His feelings are probably ambivalent.

Reading your posts what screams out is that the only way to go is get the hell away and live your family life on your own terms, free from these people. Look at yourselves, the angst this is causing you, the energy you are wasting on it. Just get away and leave them to get on with it.

Dh had a phonecall of mil last night, he said he didn't answer it, but he said "i feel guilty as she's done nothing wrong"!, he obviously doesn't take into account the fact she allowed the abuse to go on or the way she is towards him and my children now.
What can i do?
He has not seen or spoke to any of them for a week and the improvment in his moods is huge

He has not seen or spoke to any of them for a week and the improvment in his moods is huge

This speaks volumes, doesn't it?

No simple advice, as I said in previous post, he is bound to have mixed feelings. Awful parents are still loved by their children.

Can you really not move away, get some distance between yourselves and this family? I sympathise totally with your position and think your PIL sound loathsome. But I fear you are picking a fight you can't win.

Can't you take Finally's advice? It's the next best option to you all moving away.

I wish we could just pack up and move but we have no money for a deposit for another rented property, dh is in debt with credit cards and overdrafts so moving is not a possibility for us.
I just feel so down at the moment, what with money issues and his family issues.
Most of the debts were made because dh has a shopping addiction too, he buys stuff to get a 'buzz' but then grows bored of it-i think this is down to wanting him to feel good iyswim

My dh was asleep earlier on today as he works nights, i heard his phone go off so i thought id take a look.
You never guess what sil wants dh to come and do her garden with bil & fil the time of my dds birthday!!!!!-the cheek of it, trying to make him miss his own daughters bday!!, well i put her straight, told her he is busy attending his dds bday party as she well knows.

Hi Pumpkin,

You have responded to my threads on a very similar topic before. my Dh was in counselling when I met him as a friend ( was a year later we got together) was very bitter- fragile, angry and had come out of a nasty deep depression and two suicide attempts.

First of all - whilst you DH undoubtdely could do with one to one pysoctherapy etc....I would personally have a relate session.

Me and DH did this - he was used to counselling, me not - and it certanly helped me to have him there, becasue i wasnt used to it - so it would help him to have you there - and have this third party to talk to. you wouldnt belive what comes out! my DH burst into floods of tears, I have never seen him cry...and he isnt a tough guy!

Unfortunatly counselling does have stigma I know a few men who would never go as they think it implies something is wrong with them, to start with relate may help open eyes a bit and going as a couple will help take all onus off him.

We could only afford one session and it was only the first one - but the little nuggets she gave us - made me feel like i was walking on air coming out - I felt so much more bonded as a couple united agaisnt THEM!

it felt wonderful to have a strategy but also - it reinforced that WE are as valid as them, and our needs and happiness are as valid as thiers. When you have a DH who wants to please - get recognition etc - to have someone treating you - him as valid also helps to start to turn that onus back onto the parents....

I would love to go back as still lots of things to address as my DH struggles with confidence etc...and also is afraid of his DPs.

HOWEVER since I first met him, he has come on in leaps and bounds. Its a slow process though op as I am sure you are well aware, but one of you - you - taking charge and saying NO MORE is a leap forward!

His DM uses tears as emotional blackmail, I have never seen woman cry so much and friends of family tell me how they visted house say once in a year and she was sat crying over " DS", so you can imagine how people who dont know the situation feel about my DH with his poor mother in floods of tears over him.

The problem is - we - I have morals and integrity and know what its like for a MIL to be cut off, as my own DM was for truelly no reason. So I tried and tried to play fair but this is usually the problems in all these situs - one side plays fair the other doesnt. Cops and robbers. I have learnt my FIL is the most disengenious man I have ever met - he will say anything to get a result for his wife, blatant dishonesty - hypcorisy etc...

I totally totally understand your dreadful problem with letting him deal with them to as others have said its his family..... I agree with this whole heartedly BUT when my DH has stood up to the PILS they blame me anyway! They dont think he is capable of writing a letter or an email! So even if yours does stand up to them, unless he does it face to face they wont accept this is him talking. My DH has writen letter, emails, and spoken out on phone and just about face to face and all of it was put down to me. ...they will NOT accept that any of his bad feelings do come from him to them! This is inpsite of them visiting his therpsit and being told to lay off him! They blame everything BUT themselves.

My MIL even blamed me for DH pulling a knife on her! I wasnt even there - it was when we were still friends and she was nagging him about usual purile rubbish....when he snapped - went downstairs and got a knife out of a drawer with the intention of hurting himself not her! She blamed ME for this!

So, the intention - the feeling has to come from DH but in yours and my suitu where DH has been actually damaged by these people - do we not have a duty to take charge were they cant with bullies and help them? Becasue it is plain and simple bullying.

I havant yet, but I think my DH would love me to stand up to his DP for him. I dont know if I ever will, but how long can hands be tied when someone you love is being bullied plain and simple?

Although it was hideous beyond belief what MIL and FIL did to me after sudden loss of my wonderful DB and days later birth of DD, looking back it has probably done us good because, it stopped contact proper.

They should have been cut off there and then., but werent. we faffed around.

My DH has got alot better at saying no to them, and once you say it - it does get easier. You have started to say no - or avoid - thats great!!!! Soon it will become second nature!

Dont rule out other types of support, you say you dont want FIL knocking on door - this is what I have had to endure and its horrid....( we didnt open door but that feling someone could turn up etc was awful)....

We had an awful funeral situation in NOvemeber - I can go through months without having contact with PILS ( through email or phone), but this funeral was hard to get out of and suddenly we had to deal with them again.

PIL was mad trying to force Dh to wear a suit MIL had chosen! And give DU a lift etc, when we were staying well away from the " family hotel" right next to crematory.

I rang docs, told them this situ and he gave me some diazipam.

During the FIL nasty phone messages ( we didnt answer phone etc), we took one each, then on the day itself we took one each and it really really helped take off that edge. Some friends thought I was mad - become addicted but you know a few weeks later when i got round to putting away suitacse I saw a bottle of pills and thought - what on earth are these! I had forgotton all about them.

I didnt use them with the DU visiting debacle but It was comforting to know they were there! If you or DH feel any anxiety or panic - it may be worth asking doc for some...they are so weak but do just take that edge off...

In all the time I have known these horrendous people I have not one positive experience, just constant hurt.

I have asked DH to not allow them in anymore, dont read emails, dont read texts, dont answer the phone - dont let them in. Its his choice/your choice to let them in or not. This is what he needs to start realsing he is in control of his own life - its a long road but he will get there with the small steps he has started to take.

TBH i am not sure about counsellor letter - people like that may laugh and take the piss....and ridiucule.....

I wouldnt make a big fuss, do what your doing, it wont sink in for a long time ( for them), it is a long haul project - and you will probably have to forget about neices for time being....

just keep turning down, ignoring, ignore SIL - march off property - take charge there....

just say NO!

we had horrid time over DU visit BUT we held firm! We didnt budge we didnt give in to the pressure - phone calls - coming round....

we now have great grandmas visit to contend with! But once that is over and done with.....we can ignore them again for months, also this xmas will tell them we are away for the month.

Once DH understands why he is afraid it will all get alot easier.

Pump

we also considered moving but also cant afford - its not that easy to pack up and sell house etc....

Oh eliza, they sound dreadful, its shocking how many men are suffering at the controlling ways of there mothers, even in adult hood.
I have my dds birthday party do deal with but im hoping bil drops my niece of-he is much more pleasant (he hates pil too).
For now im going to completely ignore each and everyone of them as they make
my blood boil.
Mil normally visits tomorrow, dh hasn't answered her phonecall so knowing her she will turn up anyway! Im either going out or shutting my blinds-i must stand firm

yes stand firm, what relate said to us is there is no point having boundaires but not sticking to them. so you have to stick to them otherwise there is no point.

good luck with party!!! do not let MIL come in tomorow or Dh speak to her.

I cut contact from my parents, my dads last words to my dh were "I've abandoned my other kids and I can do it again". Nice.

I changed my mobiles as I was getting texts from my dad saying my mom had cried all weekend and how could I do this to them (I moved, didnt tell them where I was etc). The fact they hadnt spoken to me for six months didnt matter, it was all me who was at fault.

If you dont reply to the nasty texts (and they are nasty, to get a rise out of you) and dont answer the phone or the door they have nothing to feed off.

They like the drama, the bending your will to their own, it's what makes them happy.

It looks bad for them too when they have portrayed themselves as loving parents if one child cuts contact with them. The rest of the family start to wonder whats gone on, it's a no smoke without fire situation. My dad has 3 kids who are not speaking to him so it's a frigging obvious what's gone on. He's a rubbish parent and not a nice person.

Ultimately moving is the key, I moved and they found me. I dont know how, I made sure neither of us are on 192.com so they must have gone to the councils offices and looked on the electoral register.

I moved again, married and they found me again, DH said you ought to text them to let them know you've married about 6 weeks after the event. I did. They were shitty about it, as was expected. I suspect they must have obtained a copy of my marriage certificate because we were under a different council by then.

I cut the sim card up after that and deleted my internet advertising.

I've just moved again, I dont think they will find me, we are in a different county now so they wont even think to look for me here.

It's taken 6 years for the cryptic messaged birthday and xmas cards to stop, I didnt get a xmas card last year or a birthday card this year.

It's not a quick process unless, like my siblings who ignored me from birth so I only have dh now, you do something so awful that the abusive parents decide to cut you off. Getting married was the trigger for them.

I'm a much happier person now my parents are gone, I dont feel at all proud at what happened but it was me or them and I knew I had to choose me.

I used to get deppressed too, mood swings, anger at how my life was but it doesnt happen any more. I dont dread the phone ringing now, or the post or throw up in the bathroom before meeting up with them.

You can show this to your dh if you like, once you make the initial break you get a flare of activity then the silent treatment. They think they are punishing you.

All is not good Dh has been talking about wanting to see her already, it has only been a week since he last saw her!!
I cannot stop him so have suggested he sees his mum only on neutral ground like a cafe incase his dad turns up and kicks off.
She isn't keen on meeting him in a neutral location and has made a series of excuses, until she eventually suggested them seeing eachother at her home-i told him NO as there is a potential for his dad to be there and blow-up, she has even suggested dh to bring the kids!
So again, he has given her the option to see him but she is still controlling by dictating where said meeting should take place.
I have said a firm NO to him on the children going to her place as i do not trust fil at all obviously.
I despair i really do......
I have told him in no uncertain terms that he must stick to the cafe idea, if she says no "don't go"-im hoping he has listened.
Im not sure what to do visa ve the children, do i let her see them if its in a neutral place, do i let dcs decide or do i say no????
She's mentioned the dcs twice in texts to him today, not sure if it was to pull at his heartstrings or that she genuinely misses them ?
I feel stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea with no paddles iyswim
This one week has been great, no moods, no depressive behaviour but i bet a million dollars as soon as he sees her we are back to square one, especially with her manipultive behaviour!
Will my dh ever see sense, its soul destroying it really is, seeing someone you love trying to get the parents love they crave knowing they will never recieve it.
How many times can they hurt him, guiltrip him, manipulate him, insult our children, ask for money, ask for diy, and treat him like the runt of the litter before he realises this is never going to end well.
I made it clear to him, this is destroying our relationship but he still feels guilt to his mother, if he really wanted to see her why is he using the word 'guilt' instead of 'want'?

You poor poor thing, I couldnt cope if my DH was in such a tight grip, he is in a grip but as said before we are making steps and he is learning to say no.

Have you thought about relate, is it an option? not something you are keen on?

When you have totally dominating people like this - pushing thier needs first, and a DH who is weak and crumbling, they should help to shore you up as a couple...and also - Dh putting his mums needs before yours- at relate you have an advoate who again, helps to put you and your personal needs as a wife into perspective, so DH can see - ok have mum but also have WIFE.

Its so frustrating I can imagine how you must be feeling, he must learn to say no and put distance there.

My DH also goes back into shell and sulky teenager mode when been around his family, they critise him for not being pushy and go getting like bolshy horrid DS but seek only to crush him and make him conform to what DM wants. He is very shy and you have to push him to give a truthful answer - if you want one, I have never seen them do this. They dont care they just want to bend him to thier will. Be under this control.
A family firend who has known MIL for TWENTY FIVE YEARS, started to let off steam to ME at a wedding telling me MIL was OBSESSED WITH dh since the day he was born!

Also you can go to relate alone of course....

With Dcs really hard but I dont think its nice to hear/see your parents spoken to in such a manner when your parents when you are young are your gods and heros.....you trust your dad so when someone treats dad like a mug moron....it rocks your perception.

This is a big reason why I dont want my DD around GP's until they learn to treat DH with respect - respect he deserves.

You have to keep coming at the problem from new places, if DH isnt listening to you - what perhaps would make him listen?

Pumpkin? I need to remind you again of the warning I gave you - do not get involved. Do not tell him what to do. This is his battle and you WILL be blamed, I promise you sure as the sun will rise tomorrow.

The only boundary you can give, is that he is not to take the children into an abusive situation.

This stuff is a long, hard, hard road. It is 2 steps forward one step backward. He has to do what he needs to do. You know, if change were that easy we would all change what we didn't like.

Please Pumpkin take it from one who made that mistake, do not make yourself a rock for his hard place. The whole point about abuse, is that it paralyses you and you lose your sense of self. He will go, and feel really terrible afterwards, and his sense of anger and despair will grow. He just needs to do it 100 more times before he gives up all hope.

And it sounds as though his mother is afraid of her husband to be managing the sich like this. Could her behaviour be to stop him kicking off?

Just be there for him 'you do not deserve to be treated like this' and come and scream about it to us.

I don't see the problem in asking him to meet her on neutral ground, as she wants to see the children and that is the only way my dcs will be seeing her as they are at risk at her home.
My fil is a ticking time bomb but believe me mil is not innocent in this whatsoever, infact she is just aa much to blame.
Ive agreed to him seeing his mother as i can do very little about it, but as she has suggested her great need to see the gks i told dh he must meet her at the cafe.
Mil is not willing to see dh without the gks

pumpkin, I have to agree with wobble here - do not get involved, let him make the decisions, be there to support and love.

My DH does not have a good relationship with his family, emotional abuse and controlling behaviour from his DP's and his grandmother. I couldn't see it for about the first 2 years we were together, it really only came to light after we got engaged. At first, I used to get very frustrated at his cowardly (as I saw it at the time) behaviour and his inability to tell them where to go. Things are very different in my family, if someone upsets you or says something you don't like, it is talked about, resolved and never mentioned again. In my DH's family, it is swept under the carpet, all confrontation of any kind is avoided like the plague and everyone had to work extra hard to keep the grandmother happy.

I used to moan to him about his parents for years but one day noticed that he would get upset by this (even though agreed with me) and feel like he was caught in the middle. I realised that it was not my duty or wish to change my DH into something I thought he should be as he had experienced a very different family life to me. It was simply my job to support him and hope that this could empower him to want to change the bits he didn't like, that made him unhappy.

The way I did this was by just being there and loving him no matter what, showing (I hoped) what a loving relationship free of abuse looked and felt like. I started off by not slagging his parents off. So after a visit I would just sit quietly and more often than not he would have a good old moan about everything that had gone on. I tended to play a bit of a counselling role then which made him think more about the situation and what could be better about it all. This worked really well as the thoughts were all coming from him and not from me implanting them (even though they were the same issues) so I was never the bad guy, but simply the supporting wife back home, the normality that was always a steady in his life.

I have to say it got worse before it got better. As he was pulling away he felt incredible guilt which played havoc with his emotions. He eventually had counselling which worked really well for him. Eventually, the guilt disappeared and he was able to carry on having a relationship with them but it is now very much on his terms. He feels in control so they no longer have a hold on him.

I know it is very hard to see the man you love get ripped apart like this, believe me I know, it used to break my heart. All you want is to protect him. And sometimes I used to think our relationship couldn't survive if his family continued to have such a huge part of his head. But I am so glad I stuck with it and did what I thought was right. By getting too involved, I would have risked him pulling away from me and back to them. I would have been the witch in all of it, and this would have been reaffirmed by his family. If we had split, they would have had free reign to carry on the abuse of him and of my DC. As it is, they have no control over our lives. My relationship with them is far from great, but I don't care to be honest. I have my DH and my DC!

Pumpkin,

Have you seen recent violnce from FIL? You say you are scared of him but is he just scary now, alot of men/people were horrid to thier own young children but can change as get older..and mend thier ways?

Has your DH confessed that he is seeing MIL due to his guilt> is this why he has crumpled?

Are you totally sure he isnt just saying things to you to please you then saying things to them to please them?

Whilst i agree that its his battle, Op MUST KNOW that DH is willing to fight it! Yes it will take time etc...but OP has to know if DH wants to bother.

Its her life too, its a miserable situation, are they a team or not?

I know my DH has major problems with DP, saw it when all was " friendly" and went round there - he couldnt wait to get out - I saw how they spoke to him in normal circs etc...he was also simulatenously in therapy to build up his defences...against them...in the early days I was trying to help build, help him see folks in a diferent way but now i know I should have just trusted him from the get go and kept at arms lenght!

HOwever I had a friend at the same time, who met guy who also seemed to have a similar problem, but in fact it seemed that my friend had imposed HER views on what should and shouldnt be on to his realtionship with his DM, but in fact they seemed to get on well, would sit for hours chatting round the table etc...but he was pacifyfing my friend and telling her one thing but the DM something else....

was MIL abused by DH?

Maybe he's just not ready yet. I read a book once that said no one does anything until their at breaking point.

Or he needs permission not to feel guilty.

You'll be surprised how little contact parents want with kids when they break free from the control. It's like a broken toy, it's there but doesnt do anything.

Mil was told not to come for her weekly visit at our home yesterday on the phone yet she sent him a text that she is on her way but she is running late!
The woman doesn't seem to take no for answer!!, dh put her straight & that she is to meet him next saturday as requested, mil got sulky as usual and now dh is in one of his moods as she guiltripped him on the phone
Now he is telling me he doesn't see why our dcs shouldn't go to her house with him! I despair i really do.
Like you say i cannot tell him what to do but when it concerns dcs saftey i will.
There is two ruled im imposing, pil are not welcome at my home from now onwards and my dcs are not to see her unless in a public setting.
I have never seen him violent but i have see him make a swipe at dh on mothers day, he has also shouted and swore quite badly when dh says no to anything.
He also winds my dcs up by calling them boys names and tapping his foot on their legs , flicking their hair in their faces and he loses his temper pretty quickly when my dcs have been a tad mis behaved (normally down to him winding them up in the first place) mil tells me that he is doing nout wrong when i challenge him!
He even tripped my eldest up last year on purpose, but of course mil said it was an accident even though he delibrately put his leg out, i saw him and he grinned