Family finances - how do you sort out your equal share?

[minitinyminuteme]

Was just wondering really how other households divide wages etc.

Have partner who works full time and i work part time but am expected to do everything else - housework, shopping, washing etc. After we are paid we split things down the middle exactly. I am left with about £10 to last me the week whilst he gets left with about £150 sometimes more.

Have a dd 14 and another dd 3 and one on the way (4 months pregnant).

When they need things i am expected to pay out for them even though he earns so much more than i do. For example our toddler needed a bed as she was jumping out of her cot which was dangerous and i ended up buying bed, mattress and bedding. Not that i mind of course as it was essential.

Suppose just want a moan and some other opinions on the situation, nothing too horrible as new to this.

"financially abusive relationship"

Wow, is that even a real concept?

Is it really so absurd to think that some people work harder than others and deserve more money? Isn't that what capitalism is all about?

I've met this woman, and like i say she's lovely, but her attitude towards work is really "I like my job because apart from some customers shout it me, it's a fairly chilled out job where i'm not constantly running around worrying about the next project or stressing out that my boss won't think my presentation is good enough". If she wanted more money, she could be trying to get a promotion at that place of work, she could be trying to further her education in the evenings, she could try looking for another job... but she's happy where she is, she's comfortable. I respect that, i don't think she's lazy or anything, i'm sure her job is not easy (but then neither is my brothers, so). But, being that way you have to accept that you'll probably not earn so much over your lifetime.

She'll be the first to admit that he works harder than she does. Is that idea so alien? There are people at my workplace who work harder than me, and there are people i work harder than. Not everyone works equally as hard as each other, some people are happier if they have a job they can coast through and stay at peace in, whilst others are all about progressing and work-based success.

He's not just with her for sex and household chores... for a start, they split the housework equally. Everything is equal around the house, but he does more work at his job. It is an unequal relationship in the sense that she works less. They're happy anyway and it seems to be working for them.

IMO, expecting your boyfriend to top up your wage because you coast through your job while he stresses out daily with his, is a worse thing that being so terribly 'financially abusive' that you don't hand over your hard earned money to someone who will chill out watching TV whilst you are up late writing your next project.

I don't have a 'looking down on her' attitude, i just think that people should be independent rather than dependent on their partners. If she wants more money to spend on herself, go out and earn it, that's what she would have to do if she was single anyways. I think it's a crazy idea that once you move in with your boyfriend he should give you money to spend on whatever you live by virtue of him earning more than you do.

To illustrate my point, what if you had two consultant surgeons who both worked 60 hours a week and earned £150k a year each, they move in together and then the man says;

"You know, i don't want to be a surgeon anymore, i'm going to go and work full time in Tescos... i think i'll be more relaxed generally. You'll be earning about £135k a year more than me, but since we're living together now, you can give me half of whatever you have left over after bills so that we're equal... ok?"

Woman says, "So you want me to work 60 hours a week in a super stressful and very intellectually demanding job whilst you chill out stacking bread in Tescos, but you still want to reap the benefits of my high pay?"

Man says, "Don't be so 'financially abusive' :)"

I don't think that would be fair, do you?

I earn all the money.
I share all the money

Sort of side-tracked this thread a bit, sorry! Esspecially since the OP is going through a tough time.

IMO, the problem with the situation described in the first post is more about how she has had to pay entirely for what should be a joint item (baby's bed) and also the fact that she does all of the housework but still has to contribute 50% to the bills.

That's not right, because the REASON the OP is earning less has nothing to do with hard work or ambition or any of the things i think would justify what i've talked about in the other posts. No, the reason she earns less is only because she looks after her lazy and selfish husband. I only believe in seperate finances if there is also an equal division of labour in the home.

OP, make sure you stand up for yourself! Good luck!

But it bugs the hell out of me !

Cog, good points well made !

i just think that people should be independent rather than dependent on their partners

So never stop working to have children? Or get ill and be unable to work? Or find that after 10 years in the rat race they need to do something different for their sanity? Or retire? Or become a trailing spouse when one partner gets work overseas? I assume in your world those are all 'offences' for which the offending partner should be sacked. Choosing to do a less demanding job is a valid one to make, too - the implication is that she's chosen to do it because she can't be arsed working hard, when he will be around to pick up the tab. If he actually thought she was with him for the cash, he should dump her. But the situation you are describing is 'boyfriend/girlfriend', not a partnership.

For most people who are in a long term relationship, they are living together not just in the sense of two people in one house, but as one family unit. The dependence is much more than financial and the commitment is to each other as people, not as workers.

Yes, financial abuse is a real thing. You have been given some clear examples of it above.

OP, what's happening now? Is he really going to leave or was it an empty threat to make you put up with the current arrangement?

FWIW I am a SAHM with 3 young DCs and have equal access to all the money earned by my DH. He knows that what I do is hard work, and trusts me not to over spend.

Cog, IMO the thing that should happen in your consultant surgeon example is that the two of them should discuss their options and make a joint decision based on financial needs and work/life balance for them as a couple. Then if they both agreed to either one of them giving up being a surgeon and becoming a shelf-stacker, they should share the money equally. To me, that is what being married means.

Financial abuse is one of the abuses recognised by ACPO and the CPS as a form of domestic abuse

Although cog's example is not financial aabuse imo. Financial abuse is where one partner controls the other throgh withhoiding money eg woman has all her money taken away and her husband does not allow her any of it in order to have complete control of what she can do.all money she does get is tightly controlled and must be accounted for in the form of receipts. Clearly this has to be part of a larger picture of abuse and it is not a standalone crime.

the REASON the OP is earning less has nothing to do with hard work or ambition or any of the things i think would justify what i've talked about in the other post

That's true, but the OP could be working equally hard and be equally ambitious and still earn less because her ambitions lie in a less lucrative field (she could be working in medical research while he is a lawyer - both important and difficult and require a lot of training but one pays a lot more than the other). Or one partner could work in an area that was much more affected by the recession than the other.

It's not all about hard work and ambition by a long shot, even if you are both working fulltime.

This is just a general point that I think is important in some cases - it doesn't apply specifically here.

Again cog, the key word in your post is 'boyfriend', not partner, not spouse.

Two independent people living together temporarily.

Partners are equal, spouses are one family unit. They have common goals, discuss and agree what they both do and are mutually supportive. They love and respect each other for more than each others' earning potential.

Certainly your brother does not need to subsidise a girlfriend he has no intention of staying with and is merely 'dating'. They are poorly matched as their values and priorrities are different. As you tell it he wouldn't contemplate the equalty of partnership or 'what's mine is yours' of marriage with this woman, as money is more important to him than she is. Let's hope she knows that is the situation.

The other poster thought your brother would marry someone he doesn't regard as his equal and would impose financial inequality within a permanent relationship and on a family, hence the idea of financial abuse in the making. That assumes a level of disrespect for her and for himself and a mutual choice to 'make do' relationship-wise, that I don't. I assume he'll dump her when he can attract someone better suited.

I agree with lottie.
I think that if you love someone to want to live with them for the foreseeable future and marry them then surely you'd want to share your wealth with them and for them to have nice things.
My husband earns less than me but he works just as hard and not sharing money with him and me having lots of money whilst he has very little would seem mean and make me feel very selfish.
If on the other hand he decided unilaterally that he was going to pack in his job and doss around all day i wouldn't be wanting to support him and the relationship would struggle. If money is to shared equally then both people need to feel they are contributing equally.
Ideally people discuss how they are going to share household income before they move in together or get married and long before they have kids. Too many people just live together and have kids without properly discussing this stuff. If you aren't willing to work together and share stuff you shouldn't be living together or having kids together.

Boyfriend/girlfriend sharing a house is a different scenario.

My dh earns more than me (although when we first met it was the other way round) because we have agreed that I will be the member of the family "team" to be at home part-time to MN manage and run everything most things. Our lives are divided into working outside the home earning a wage, running the house, looking after the kids and leisure time. The leisure time is evenly matched, the rest varies according to circumstance. Team effort, all money pooled. We trust each other implicitly not to abuse the situation and we're both happy with the status quo.

If one partner in the relationship is not happy, then have a talk about it and get it changed.

"chill out stacking bread in Tesco"
wow im sure all the supermarket workers who do this running around all day would deffo describe it as chilling out.
you can be in a low paid job and work just as hard.
There are many many minimum wage jobs out there that expect the earth for the poor wage they are paying.
If i was doing this and then coming home to a partner that thought less of me for it and thought he deserved more spare cash because of it i would leave.
And yes financial abuse is a reality. Read the MSE thread ive linked to earlier in this thread.
The reason many women end up in that kind of situation is because they miss the early warning signs.
And then we get other posters come on here and say "well he must have shown signs of this before you had children"

"chill out stacking bread in Tesco"
wow im sure all the supermarket workers who do this running around all day would deffo describe it as chilling out.
you can be in a low paid job and work just as hard.
There are many many minimum wage jobs out there that expect the earth for the poor wage they are paying.
If i was doing this and then coming home to a partner that thought less of me for it and thought he deserved more spare cash because of it i would leave.
And yes financial abuse is a reality. Read the MSE thread ive linked to earlier in this thread.
The reason many women end up in that kind of situation is because they miss the early warning signs.
And then we get other posters come on here and say "well he must have shown signs of this before you had children"

Wow, I am surprised by your arrangement.
Seriously, the only fair arrangement when you have (several) children together is:

• Pool all the money together.
• Pay all the bills from that pool
• Then if there is some money left, separate the money left in half.

but tbh I have never ever done the last part of it. Any money left (when there is some) is going onto a saving account after we both have spend money on what we need. It has never occur to any of us to check how much I or he is spending. We trust each other that whatever we spend is done with thought and wo excess.

Sorry, just seen your update...:(

www.selfdefense-4-women.com/financial-abuse.html

Cog - not a good example. My DH and I pretty much have that arrangement. We both used to earn more or less the same in that kind of a job, but now we have DCs, I am back part time at college (and yes, half the time it feels like a hobby because its so much fun!) and looking after the kids.

And you know what - we still split the money 50:50. That would be lunacy for him to have enough money to swan around in a BMW (apart from being a wankers car) and me in a beat up Fiesta because he 'deserves' it more or other such examples. I always thought relationships where there are children involved are a partnership.

(BTW - many times my highpowered previous job has been easier than stacking shelves at Tescos, I'm sure. Again, it's not a good example.)

BTW - mytiny, your DP sounds like the leading arsehole in the county.

We both put about 80 % of our wages into the joint account which covers all bills, food, clothes, books, days out, childcare etc. The other 20% is ours to do what we like with, although dp will tend to use his own money for petrol, where I don't, and most months he'll treat us to a meal out / take away, but then his 20% is more than mine.

Just read your update, sounds like he doesn't want to be a family man to be honest. Think he needs a bit of a reality check! Could any of his mates / work collegues / family lk any sense into him? The fact your 14 year old isn't 'his' should have nothing to do with it. You came as a package, he should have known that. My step son only stays In holidays but I certainly don't mind him being included in our joint budget, we're a family after all. Hope you get it sorted.

Most of the people who are offering counters to my examples seem to add a feature to the debate... "My husband earns more than me but i look after the kids, do the housework, am disabled, etc"... and in doing so, miss my point.

If you have children and stay at home to look after them, that is your job, and it's a hard job, so you work just as hard as your husband does and not only that but you are doing an essential job. In that situation the money should be split. Same if you have a disproportionate share of the housework. If you are disabled, then your lower earnings is not your fault and i think support is fine.

I find it odd that everyone seems to think that in relationships both partners always work just as hard as one another and that there's never a situation where one partner is constantly striving for success whilst the other is far more relaxed, just in a hypothetical sense, can you not imagine this to be the case? In the example of my brother, his girlfriend would be the first to admit she doesn't work very hard and has an easy life compared to my brother.

Also, Lottie, i don't quite see where you're coming from with the whole 'living with temporarily' thing. They've been together for years and living together for a good while. They're both happy with the situation. I don't think they'll get married because neither of them 'believe in it', but they have a joint mortgage and i wouldn't be surprised if they have children some time.

As it happens, in my own marriage we've always had exactly the same arrangement, but co-incidently we've always earned pretty much exactly the same amount of money so it's a bit different.