Very tearful, DH aggressive attitude

[Rennie12]

In a nutshell. I told my DH of 21 years today I've had enough of him being a bully.
He's taken it badly and now I'm wondering if his behaviour isn't too bad and I've been harsh with him.
We have 4 DC's all teenagers and they're not bad kids at all. DC1 suffers from anxiety and I'm not sure of DH has been the trigger.
It is not what he says to the kids ie tidy your room, turn you lights off, stop pestering the dog etc. I agree with him It's the way he says it. He really shouts at the kids and speaks to my oldest like he hates him. He doesn't like him I know. I am constantly on edge about the way he treats DC1 as I just want him to get better.
He criticises me all the time from the moment I get up. ie why are you loading the dishwasher like that? etc And never says thank you.
I make him a cup of tea every morning and that really gets on my nerves,( I've told him I'd like a cup of tea sometimes)Hhe won't get out of bed and make me one and just lies there while I get everyone off to school.
He really shouted at my 19yr old last night for being silly with the dog and his best friend was here! I was in bed asleep and he woke me up with the shouting.
He shouts a lot and he knows I don't like him doing it to the kids. He is grumpy and has fallen out with most people.
I'm so tearful now, as I wish I'd told him his behaviour was unacceptable and not that he was a bully.
Don't know what to do. Don't know what I want anyone to say. I'm just shaking. He's gone out.

by the way the DC2 who would be heart-broken if you left.....an even bigger red flag than the anxious DC1...this separating of children is a classic EA trait...the favourite and the scape-goat. BOTH are equally damaged for the future, at risk of unhealthy relationships and attitudes to themselves and to others.

take a step back, do the other DCs offer up the older one as a "sacrifice" and draw their father's fire away from themselves? it was months after we were out that i realised what had been going on under my own nose ...your DH's unreasonable way of behaving will be affecting you all and distorting all of the relationships in the house. We mothers are usually too busy sticking plasters on everyone's little grazes to see the bigger picture...of the wacking great bleeding vein that's the main problem.

...sorry...got a bit over graphic there. your situation has touched a real nerve and am really really feeling for you all.......

I'm not surprised your dc has anxiety problems. Living with abuse will do that to a child/young person and they are living with abusive bullying behaviour. You owe it to your dc to change this situation.

foolonthehill your post has made me cry. I've never looked at things that way before but I was the scapegoat and my brothers all ganged up on me too, as well as my Dad They drew the fire away from themselves to me everytime. My whole family did and still do enable my dads behaviour, to the point he apparently "has no daughter" now My self esteem is still low and I'm 33 now.

Please read the Lundy Bancroft book Rennie.

The reason your abusive twat of a father 'has no daughter' now, Raths, is because he's not fit to have one.

He wasn't fit to have a precious baby dd; he wasnt' fit to have a little girl, he wasn't fit to have a teenage daughter, and he's not fit to be the proud father of a beautiful woman.

In short, my love, your father is fit for nothing.

Don't allow his misogyny to adversely affect your adult life - the man simply ain't worth it and you're infinitely better off without him.

sorry to hear that Don't..it's an experience that is so fundamental to your view of yourself, but you can rebuild ....(((hug)))

Going back to your comment fool "BOTH are equally damaged for the future, at risk of unhealthy relationships and attitudes to themselves and to others." I think the reason I married a lying cheating man was due to my abuse by my father and low self worth. Please please please Rennie don't be like my Mum and put the plasters on the grazes for their whole childhood and not confront the bigger issue

I know my experience is only one of many out there but have a think Rennie

You have rightly pointed out how inappropriate his behaviour is - how he responds is up to him, you can't change that...that's the tough part, accepting that only he can make the change.

What you can do is to be clear about the behaviour you will not accept (creating a boundary) and if he fails to adhere to your boundary then there is a consequence. Think of a time when he/you might be able to have a calm discussion. It is then up to you to define the consequence(s), maybe it's telling him that you need a separation so that he has space to work on his issues.

His anger maybe a sign of some issues going on for him but it is up to him, as an adult, to ask for help. This is like any other addiction, or self destruction behaviour - he must see the problem.

(name changer here)

rennie, you could be me! Am feeling the same, tearful and worried.

married 21 years to a bullying shouting EA.
have 3 teenagers who hate him/love him/are afraid of him.
my 19 year old said to me only the other day "mum you don't deserve the way he speaks to you" "You could leave you know." When they were little I thought if I "managed" him maybe I could protect the kids from knowing what a twat he was. Such an idiot - wish I'd left then.

Like you, Rennie, there are often times when his opinion is valid but his way of expressing it is just soooo ABUSIVE.

I could leave, I want to, I should. Hate the thought of a future with him. I feel like I've failed the dcs by giving them such a useless Dad. Can't really believe I've made such a mess.

but even with all those feelings, it still feels so huge a thing to leave.

On the face of it, our lives are ok, we're educated, employed, intelligent, nice house, kids seem fairly confident and well adjusted. I think my H thinks we're happy. He has no idea how much I've withdrawn from him, no idea how little respect I have for him.

And yet he still yelled at me in the car in front of the kids when I didn't get the sat nav ready in time. And I still let him. And hate myself for it.

Of course, like all EA relationships we have the good times...when we sit and drink a glass of wine and chat, when we laugh, when he compliments me, when he buys me beautiful jewellery for my birthday. But it's all meaningless.

In the end he's always controlling, or bullying, or impatient, or irritable, or talking over me, or reading my emails, or saying "the trouble with you is...."

A couple of weeks ago, I asked him to stop shouting at me....he yelled "how are you going to stop me". I asked him if he really thought I had no choices open to me.

I really have to leave...I just don't know where to start and I'm sooo tired.

Rennie I'm sorry to hijack your thread. Once I started I couldn't stop. I've told no-one.

Read the Lundy book and take action. Don't waste any more of your life or your children's. See, I know what the advice should be...I just need to take it!

Well this morning the phone went early, DH got up to answer it, so while he was up he made me a cup of tea. A rarely seen event. Put it by my bedside, so I said thank you, and he said Oh so you're speaking to me now. This is typical of the way he treats me, he just wants me to feel guilty or bad about everything. I am so determined not to. I think I am a kind person and the kids tell me I'm a good mum.
That is DH all over. He hasn't said one major awful thing, but just chips away and really sometimes I think I'd prefer it if he had an affair so I had an excuse to leave.
Didi, that is exactly me. I think our lives are just the same. Except me and DH don't really have any laughs when we're on our own, only if we're out.
I think I will buy the book to start as I just feel I can't leave. I know it sounds crazy.
My other kids don't try to put all their father's anger on DC1. They are kind and caring with him. The kids are great kids really, they are not manipulative.
I think I need to try and sit down and talk to him more, I haven't done in the past as one or more of the DC's is usually at home and I don't want him to start shouting. Maybe if we go to a public place he will have to listen.
I need to warn him if he doesn't change I'll leave as I want to give him a chance to change as I want the kids to have a happy family life.
Thanks for your replies, it makes me feel I'm not in this alone
PS I'm new to posting on MN, what does EA mean?

I think I will buy the book to start as I just feel I can't leave. I know it sounds crazy.

It's not crazy: You're only at the very early stages of accepting that your husband is an emotionally abusive (EA) bully. It's a shocking thought that's going to turn your world view upside down: these things take the time they take. Every person can only go at their own pace.

Definitely read "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft. There are plenty of other books and websites linked to at the start of the support thread for those in EA relationships.

Emotionally Abusive/ Emotional Abuse.

The thought of leaving is huge I realise that. My ExH did have an affair and I was still desperate to work things out MN helped me in the end to realise and end it for good. I hope you will find mn as useful as I have. Please keep posting and read that book.

I'm sorry to say that I do not think he can change, but I understand where you're coming from.

Rennie

EA means emotional abuse.

You called him what he is - he is a bully and abusive to boot.

You've been in this damaging relationship for so long now that you've come to normalise it. The signs were likely there a long time ago (you noticed he had a temper) but for whatever reasons you did not notice it back then. Not entirely your fault, it was unfortunate that you a nice woman met such a brute.

Abuse like this is insidious in its onset; it creeps up on people and many women only realise how poor their marriage actually is when they see the children being affected. There is already a favored child and scapegoat within your own family unit; unfortunately that unhappy state will continue so long as this man is around you all.

He does not care about you or anyone actually.
What do you know about his childhood, what are/were his parents like?. That would give you big clues.

The only way forward is to leave this emotionally abusive man.

Counselling particularly joint counselling is a non starter when it comes to emotional abuse as such men will not attend counselling and are very averse to any talking. He does this as well Rennie because he can; this is how such men operate and your H is textbook emotional abuser. Abuse is about power and control; he wants absolute over you.

You have a choice re him Rennie, your children do not. Your future relationship with your children is at risk as some of them may well despise you for putting your H before them. If you were to tell them that you stayed with him because of them, they will call you a silly cow for doing so.

Also one day Rennie your children will leave home and then it will be just you and your H. What then?.

It may look like a mountain to leave but your future life is looking a lot worse if you were to remain within this marriage.

He took it badly because you had the gall to call him up on his abusive behaviour; he did not like that. Also like many such abusers he causes great problems and then stomps off afterwards leaving you to clear up the emotional mess he created.

Also such men are very plausible to those in the outside world.

Certainly read "Why does he do that?" written by Lundy Bancroft.

YOu might also think about the longer term future. Your children may put up with it now, because they don't have much of a choice, and they both love and hate their dad. DS1 sounds already affected. But they may well, once they have flown the nest, look back and think they don't want to inflict their dad's shouting and aggression on the next generation. What if you lose your grandchildren to this aggressive bullying man? And your children blame you for staying?

Personally, I think you have every reason to demand he change, and leave if not, if only for your own happiness. You are a very important person too, you know, and being run down and criticised all the time is the worst kind of poison to drip into a marriage.

Please do leave, OP. Your DH sounds like my father. My DM never did leave him. They're still living in the same house. My father then went on to be aggressive to my DS1, my DH and me, of course. None of us siblings like him at all. The only time we speak to him is if we have to. he has no interest in us and so we have no interest in him. He's still a bit abusive to DM, but luckily she has a very full social life. He doesn't. I don't care about/for him at all. None of the siblings sends him father's day or birthday cards. So really, it won't make any difference to your DC, just that they will have a better childhood/young adulthood if you leave. They won't be devastated, I bet they'll be happy.

For your and your DC's mental health and future happiness, please leave. The non-love that I have for my father is sort of always at the back of my mind as it has somewhat soured my DM's and my relationship (and the relationship she has with my siblings) as for a while she wouldn't go anywhere without him.

I always wondered how older people who had DC were found dead in their houses when no one had visited. Now I know. If DM goes first, I won't be visiting my father.

Rennie, I am a little further down the line from you. It's taken me years to wake up to the ea i am suffering. It is ea, even if he does it only when the kids are around. thats child abuse ? I have booked an appt at the CAB. I felt sick, but Ive taken a teeny step. can you?

to all of you facing this...much strength and clear sight to you.

I was in for over 12 years...one day (Sept last year) the final straw came...October he went...awful, awful behaviour until jan. Now I am a new person, so so glad we are out...even though nothing is sorted, money is tight but the DC are thriving...

you can go , only you can decide to go, only he can make himself change...you can't change him but you can change your life and those of your children It's not easy but it's necessary and IT's worth it for you and for DC

I don't think he can change - my H or yours Rennie.

I have spent years hoping. He can go for weeks being normal and good company, I see glimpses of how nice our life could be, how we could share stuff, support each other, watch tv together.... That's how I thought we would be 20 years ago...now I feel just oppression, and even in the good times I feel kind of numb.

Attila's right, we normalise so much of it. Even now when we clearly know that to be yelled at is so wrong, I'm sure there's a whole raft of other stuff that's equally wrong but that we've just normalised...minimised.

It's so hard to see clearly.

He is being OK today, and even cracked a couple of jokes. I think he knows I've had enough.
I must be at the early stages of realising it's EA, as I've never thought of it as that before and I need to get my head round it before I walk out.
I think I'm going to write down everything negative he does and then take a step back and look at it, as at the moment I keep thinking I don't have a big enough excuse.
I do feel numb today. I'm dreading Father's day as I have my lovely Dad coming round and I don't want him to see me upset.
Talking of great Dads my kids always say to me, whenever we're not sure if this or the other is right we always ask ourselves 'What would Grandpa do?'. Surely it should read 'What would Dad do?' but it doesn't.
Sad isn't it really?

as at the moment I keep thinking I don't have a big enough excuse.

I know the feeling so well.

and when I do have a big enough excuse it's always the wrong time....Christmas, Easter, kids' exams, busy week at work, flu, car out of order, holiday just booked.

and then, life gets in the way...and you wonder if it was really as bad as all that...until the next time.

:(

Didi, that's me too. Just reread your previous post and I was the same when the kids were young, didn't want to leave them on their own with DH, in case he said something horrible to them or shouted at them. I really have put my life on hold.
Today DH has been quite jolly despite me telling him he is a bully, on a high almost, it's strange.
Why don't you do like me and start writing the things he says/ does down?
Like you we have a lovely house, 2 cars, nice holidays good education but in fact I'd rather go back to living in a tiny house and have someone who I can really enjoy life with.
I never realised I'd get so much support from everyone on here. I feel much better today. Wonder how long his good mood will last.

Today DH has been quite jolly despite me telling him he is a bully, on a high almost, it's strange

It's not at all strange that he's on a high. He's got a reaction out of you which reminds him of the rush of power he felt when he used to pull the wings off flies.

Don't give this twunt any more oxygen to feed his inflated opinion of himself.

Step in and challenge him whenever he picks on your eldest dc, but as soon as you've made your point, treat him with indifference.

And FGS get yourself to a solicitor who specialises in family law and file for divorce. Life is far too short to stay with a miserable fucker who sucks the joy out of it.

What Izzy said

yep izzy's quite right.

of course it's so difficult to pull him (H) up every time he picks on dc1...because your natural feeling is fear that H will escalate. Which he will.