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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Please help me write email to toxic mother

131 replies

Memoo · 11/06/2012 20:41

My mother has belittled, criticised and been emotionally unavailable all my life and it has had a huge effect on my self esteem.
I have never stood up to her. Even now I feel frightened of her and of her reactions.
After a disastrous week at her house I am bubbling with anger and resentment.

She has just sent me a message on FB (like that's an appropriate place for this) saying "have I upset you?"

I really really want and need to tell her the stuff that is bothering me but I don't want to rant, be childish or give her the opportunity to say I'm being cruel.

What do I say? The things that bother me:

  1. she favours eldest dc
  2. she is always criticising my parenting and she always does it right in the middle of dd's tantrums.
  3. she has always been cold and emotionally unavailable and I have never felt that she like me.
  4. Im hurt because I thought this week together was a chance to put things right but it just proved that nothing had changed. she wouldn't even sit in the same room as me. She spent the whole week avoiding me.

On the first night there I told her that I might have MS (waiting to see neurologist for further tests) she didn't ask me how I was or even mention it for the whole week.

I need to just write a few lines to convey my upset. What do I write?

Very grateful for any help

OP posts:
KautoStar · 13/06/2012 14:43

This is so true, exactly the reaction i got when i said what i felt. My sister doesn't speak to me at all now.

catsmother · 13/06/2012 16:21

You need to work on the following agony: accept her for who she really is. Let go of any hope whatsoever, that she might or could 'see' you for who you really are. Let go of any dream that ONE DAY she might 'hear' you. Understand and accept that you will NEVER have the loving, caring, nurturing mother you wish and dream for, and that you will have to find that resource in yourself.

Wow ..... so much of what's been written on this thread really resonnates. Particularly the comment from ABitWobbly above. You know ... I dread my mum dying .... not for the normal healthy reasons that most people would dread the thought of losing a parent but because once she's gone, that's it, there will NEVER be an opportunity for her to show some interest/empathy/support towards me, and until that time, you see, I can "at least" live in hope that she might change, or at least make an effort.

This week I am battling, truly battling with a massive ethical dilemma where my "choices" all lead to severe unhappiness/stress one way or another. The biggest emotional thing I've ever had to contemplate and I feel utterly wrteched. There's literally nothing I can do to make it better or more bearable and it's an extremely sensitive issue I can't speak to anyone else about. I tried to confide in my mother and after half an hour she told me she was going to finish the call as I was making her feel ill. She suggested she might call me in a couple of weeks but believe me this thing won't be different in two weeks - if she calls that is. There's no understanding at all .... a lot of "oh dears" .... and I don't expect her to wave a magic wand, but sometimes, you just need a sounding board, and my mother can't or won't provide that however desperate I am. I do know what she's like from bitter experience and I try not to tell her any more than I really need to because I do appreciate it's better if you can sort out your own problems, and because it's always pretty odds on that I will invariably be brushed off yet again - thus causing more hurt. I guess my mum's only ever been aware of about 10% of the various issues and problems I've had and she really doesn't know the half of it so it's NOT a case of me forever sounding off at her. However, you can't always live a lie .... when asked direct questions I sometimes just can't pretend that everything's okay. Yet the overwhelming expectation my mother seems to have of me is that I don't "bother" her with anything "unpleasant" ..... she gets irritated and angry with me if I break this unwritten "rule". To me though ...... regardless of the fact we all wish we could live in a nice little bubble where nothing ever went wrong, you'd hope to Gods' sake that your own mother would actually be interested enough in their own child to want to know what's happening - good or bad - so they could help if they possibly could. That's how I see my children, and I hope they'll never think of me as being so cold.

My mum inevitably trivialises any concerns or worries of mine. I suspect so she can then have a guilt free conscience at not being supportive/loving/concerned. After all, if something's not important (in her eyes) then why would she need to help ? I can't work out if this is laziness (but don't think so) or if she simply doesn't like me (her actions - or lack of them - certainly indicate this). Yet we've never had a big falling out, have never had an argument once I was an adult and I've never made the sort of lifestyle choices which might invoke shock horror disapproval from Daily Mail "types" (of which she is one). I don't know what it is. I look at other mother-daughter relationships and am agog at the ease and mutual feeling between them ..... that's what most people appear to have and I can't work out why I don't.

Memoo .... I really must apologise for going off on my own rant. I didn't mean to ignore you ... was trying to convey I knew exactly how you felt but got a bit carried away. I have longed to confront my own mum for years but this is truly scary as I think it would impact upon other family members I really do care about but who have different relationships with my mum and who might not be able to appreciate where I'm coming from. I don't know how old you and your mum are but in my case my mum is in her 70s (but fully with it and not infirm) so you're getting into the realms of picking on an "old lady" as other people might see it . It's very very strange because her relationship with my grandma was a close one .... they saw each other every week all their lives but I can go months without speaking to my mum. Like you I can tell my mum about something very significant and it'll then be ignored for months on end ...e.g. I left a (thankfully short lived) emotionally abusive marriage some years ago and apart from uttering the conventional condolences I never heard from my mum again until 3 or 4 months later despite the fact I lost my home and ended up (with her young grandchild) somewhere I'd never have chosen to be. I absolutely can't fathom how even if your child is an adult, a mother can listen to them in distress and then make excuses about someone at the door/lunch being ready/needing the effing toilet FFS in order to finish the call ..... and then, going off the radar for weeks afterwards. It's so soul destroying isn't it .... I'd never treat anyone, let alone my own child, like that and if I genuinely had to finish a call, I'd make sure to get back in touch asap.

I really hope your diagnosis isn't what you fear. I just don't know how your mother wouldn't want to talk to you about it. I know that talking about upsetting stuff with others can sometimes be rather difficult or traumatic, but I really do believe that if you care about someone in that sort of situation you put aside your own feelings of discomfort in order to try and bring a little support. Unfortunately you can't always literally help but just knowing someone cares goes a long way. Why wouldn't you do that for your own child ?

Lottapianos · 13/06/2012 17:02

catsmother , I'm really sorry you're having such a horrible time with your mother. It just seems like so little to ask - for your own parent to be able to put their needs aside for just one conversation and to really listen to what's going on with you. Through my therapy sessions, I have realised that both my parents have narcissistic personality disorder which among other things, involves a total lack of empathy and inability to put other people's needs first. Ever. That includes your own children's needs. It's sad and horrible but it seems to be what reality is in my family.

Just knowing that they both fit this description was a huge relief to me, as I had always feared it was me who was unreasonable, not them. I know now that the way they relate to me and to other people is not normal and won't ever be. Not that I don't still feel extremely angry at them and let down by them, but it has helped me to get my head around their really upsetting behaviour. It might be worth googling or reading other material around NPD if you think it may apply to your mum.

catsmother · 13/06/2012 17:58

Thanks Lotta for your reply ... and sorry to Memoo for hijacking.

It's interesting what you say, but I have seen my mum react very differently to other family members (long long story which I won't go into on Memoo's thread) so it's very hard to tell myself "that's just the way she is". I'm sorry that both your parents are horrid ... at least my dad wasn't, but unfortunately he died many years ago.

lolaflores · 13/06/2012 18:16

Memoo having the same feelings as you this last 2 weeks. Struggling with the long ignored fact that my mother is a narc, that my sister is her golden child and emotional enforcer too. It is a not nice conclusion to reach for anyone, that their parent dislikes them so very much. Not out of malice, it is because i remind her too much of herself, she loathes herself and so anything of her is worthless. She had a similar relationship with her mother, so I am determeined it stops her. Situation was not helped by my father dying when we were young. There was no buffer between her and me. Also, she got to be the biggest sufferer of everything ever.

Anyway, it is a test of nerves. Ask yourself this; do you roll over and keep playing that roll that was tailor made for you for the rest of your natural. Or do you bite the bullet and finally get to keep your life on an even keel rather than a fucking roller coaster of nit picking and horridness.
I know which side I have had to come down on. There is only so many therapists I can talk to until I hand back some of the damage. I refuse to carry it any further, it was not mine of the making, don't expect me to cripple myself any longer with your insanity.

All the very best, really. This is harder than anything I have ever known

Memoo · 13/06/2012 21:53

Oh wow thank you for such honest and open replies. I'm aware this is a hugely painful subject.
There are huge similarities in our experiences.

My sister is also the "golden child". My mothers baby who she had with my step father. Strangely enough my sister ran off to live in Australia a few years ago. I should add that I love my sister dearly and hold no bad feelings towards her.

My mother got pregnant with me when she was 17. As the daughter of a strict roman catholic she was made to marry the father and then spent the next 5 years enduring an abusive, and at times violent, marriage.

I often wonder if she resents me because I'm the baby that trapped her in a crap marriage. Maybe I remind her of him. Maybe I remind her of herself. Whatever the reason it's true to say she does not like me.

I have been discharged from my psychiatrist now but I'm on a waiting list to see an nhs psychotherapist.

One incident with my mother sticks in my head for some reason. It's trivial but sums up my whole relationship with my mum.

It was about 10 years ago and I'd just left exH. I had a 2yo and a 6mo and had just lost my home, my marriage, everything. I was suffering with pnd and was basically a bit of a wreck.
I was forced to go and live with my mum for 3 months whilst I waited for housing. She wouldn't help me at all, not even just watching the baby for an hour so I could rest.
One day both dc were asleep and I wanted to nip down to the shop at the end of the road so I asked my mother if she could watch the (sleeping) dc for 5 minutes. She screamed at me that I was "taking the piss" and refused to watch them.

It sounds really trivial but I'll never forgive her for that.

Or for when I was 17 and I was beat up by my first boyfriend and all she cared about was what I was putting her through. She did even hug me. I'd just been strangled and punch in the face and my own mother wouldn't even hug me.

5 years ago I had an ectopic pregnancy that ruptured. I nearly fucking died. So she went on holiday for 2 weeks.

I'm waffling I know but I just need to get so much out.

I'm definately going to write the letter but not send it.

So sorry that so many of us have had such feckless parents. It's truly the worse hurt ever. My God when you can't even turn to your own mum who do you turn to?

OP posts:
Memoo · 13/06/2012 22:12

She has just written on my Facebook:

"silence is almost the perfect expression of scorn"

Absolutely stunned at her tbh.

OP posts:
HotDAMNlifeisgood · 13/06/2012 22:17

She senses she's losing grip - narcissists hate that. Her only tools are denial, rage, blame, and "poor martyr me". Expect her to try any and all of them.

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 13/06/2012 22:19

Those incidents you describe are awful, awful, awful. Nothing "trivial" about any of them, Memoo.

TheHappyHissy · 13/06/2012 22:36

Memoo, i see what she's put you through, and my experiences echo yours in many ways, though not to the depth and extremity of the cruelty displayed.

My sister took on that mantle.

I said to you that she'd panic, and she is. She'll get more and more extreme.

You may give some thought to deleting the post, if it's a wall post. Or tbh, blocking her may be an idea.

There will come a time when you may well have to. Prepare for that.

I'm writing these words to you, knowing that one day i'll be following my own advice myself.

You're not alone, none of us here are, we can get eachother through this.

dittany · 13/06/2012 22:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dittany · 13/06/2012 22:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

peppapiglet · 13/06/2012 23:00

memoo, i really understand where you are coming from as i have the same. i recently had a miscarriage, which my mother knows about (2 weeks ago) and she hasnt even asked how i am. everything is superficial and about her.
it makes me really angry for you wrt the messages on facebook. you will be so much happier to have little or no contact with her. dont reply to those messages, you are going to have to let go and move on. i am thinking of you and understand the pain, I really do

Memoo · 14/06/2012 08:25

Peppa, so sorry about your miscarriage. I can't imagine a time you'd need your mum more and it's unforgivable that's she's not been there for you.

I almost can't get my head around you all backing me up. All my life I have believed that it was my fault and over the years I've tried many different ways to try and make my mother love me.

What's really strange is that I don't feel sad. I feel like I'm freeing myself and like I'm dumping a huge amount of emtional baggage.

I've had a lot of problems with my mental health over the past couple of years and I think a large percentage of it stems from 37 years of hurt.

As a side my father, who I have always regarded as an innocent bystander has 'liked' my mothers comment.

OP posts:
LimitReached · 14/06/2012 08:45

Memoo I stopped contact with my toxic mother about 3/4 years ago now.

I feel a bit better now as she is not emotionally draining me anymore but she is still in my thoughts a lot of the time. I cried on her birthday this year as I became aware that I may never see her again and the next thing I will hear about her will be that she is dead.

The biggest irony is that she keeps popping up on my FB as a suggested friend haha!

I still mourn the mother I wish she was and make sure I am a far better mother to my two lovely girls, although I have my own problems right now I am trying to deal with; a lot of them stem from our dysfunctional relationship.

Makes my heart break to read about others going through the same when all we want is our Mum; I often think how silly that sounds as I am 42 this year but the truth is I envy others who have great relationships with their supportive mothers.

You need to look after yourself and your children, make sure you are a better mother than she ever was X

SoSad007 · 14/06/2012 08:47

Memoo, your father is enabling your mother's treatment of you. Again, don't rise to the bait, its not worth it. Narc's tend to bully, and of course bullies always look for allies to support them in it.

I've got a narc mother and a father who enables her by not challenging her. Its not worth the emotional energy to engage with a narc.

Jux · 14/06/2012 09:02

It's NOT YOUR FAULT.

(thout I'd get that in first)

Your dad may well have been nagged into liking her post. Is that a possibility? (Not having had toxic parent/s I have no real experience of this, but from what people have said here, it could be possible that your dad has to go along with her). She could have used your dad's account to like it herself.

Are there any other comments?

You are having a really tough time of it, aren't you? You poor thing. I have ms, so if you want to ask me about it, please go ahead.

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 14/06/2012 09:10

Your father was never an innocent bystander. He is a parent who allowed his own child to be bullied under his nose and did nothing. Passivity is not innocence.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 14/06/2012 09:19

Memoo

((((memoo)))))))

I would also reiterate that it is not your fault they are like this and you did not make them this way. Their own birth families are to blame.

Am I surprised your sister went off to live in Australia - not at all actually. She has put physical as well as mental distance between her and her dysfunctional parents. On a more personal level my DH got out of his childhood home as soon as he was able to.

Would suggest you also read the website entitled Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers.

I would go no contact as of now with the two of them. Block all e-mails and remove yourself from Facebook. FB is a fab tool for narcs to use and abuse.

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles and you are the scapegoat for all their inherent ills.

Your Dad likely is the bystander within this dysfunction and has acted out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. He has failed abjectly to protect you fully from your narcissistic mother. From my own experience it is not possible to have any sort of relationship with a narcissist, my BIL thankfully cut us off and his parents are also narcs (albeit in different ways but narcs all the same).

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 14/06/2012 09:22

By the way, if a part of you is being successfully guilted by your mother's public statements on Facebook, if you feel "bad" because someone is attempting to make you look bad, I can assure you that from a third party point of view, she is only succeeding in making herself look nasty, overbearing, and self-obsessed. This is more than likely how anyone else viewing these statements on your wall will react. Your father is the bully's sidekick: his liking her comment is far from what the general view on her comment will be.

I mean: is anyone else liking her comment? Joining in? No? Let the two of them go through their dance of dysfunction on their own, then. Nobody else is interested in joining in. Are you?

RA88 · 14/06/2012 09:30

Instead of emailing her you should sit down with her and talk like adults .. If she goes off on one then walk away

bugster · 14/06/2012 09:34

OP so sorry that you are awaiting that diagnosis, it must be very difficult.

I can empathise with a lot of the feelings of posters on here. My relationship with my mother has always been problematic, but I wouldn't say she is 'toxic' although I have no particular knowledge of psychology and haven't ever been in therapy. My mother is and always has been hugely self absorbed, demanding constant attention from everyone close to her. However, i understand where that comes from, owing to some hugely traumatic events in her teenage years, for which she received massive amounts of sympathy and attention from her loving paremts, which I think left her 'addicted' to that level of attention (at least that's my attempt at amateur psychology).

She will never hold me close and stroke my hair, and much as I would have loved to have that kind of a mother, i have come to accept that she is not capable of that. She does however care about me and love me, she is just not physically demonstrative. Some things she has done have been hurtful, but I don't blame her for them. We are all human and imperfect, and mothering is very, very hard. How many of us start out determined to be the best mother in the world, with the closest and most loving relationship, and yet it so often goes wrong. The number of posts on here are a testimony to that. Yesterday I found myself having to cope with profound feelings of anger towards my own daughter. Thankfully I didn't vent my feelings to her, but it was very, very hard.

OP your mother has also dealt with some very difficult troubles in her life. I'm not trying to make excuses for her, but perhaps taking that into consideration helps to understand her behaviour. Her posts on facebook, and your father's, are very childish but it sounds to me like she does care about the situation, however inept she is at handling it. At least she is not indifferent and oblivious.

My attitude to my mother changed greatly some months ago. I don't know if you are religious but for me I let go of the blame and anguish through prayer and meditation, and I believe God brought me to that place of peace.

Miggsie · 14/06/2012 09:42

Narcs must, must have someone to pick on.
Narc parents have an easy time as picking on their own children is so easy and available for them.
If your parents were childless your mum would just turn on your dad.

There is nothing you can do to change either of them. They will pursue you relentlessly as you are an easy victim for them, they have years of experience of pushing your buttons.

For this reason you need to block them off facebook, block their emails, get call screening so they can't phone you and cut all contact.

Don't think you can be nice and reasonable with them and get a result, they are as they are due to the fact they have no empathy, no niceness, no reason, no admirable feelings of any kind.

I watched my parents endure years of bullying and belittling from my grandmother who was a narc and granddad, who enabled her by standing by while others were treated so badly, he did this because he is a coward, he would rather have been standing by her watching it all than picked on by her.

Do read those books thoroughly, then you will understand that you can heal yourself, but you can do nothing for them. It is hard, my dad was 85 before he admitted how foul his mother was, it is a big big emotional revelation, but it will set you free.

lolaflores · 14/06/2012 09:57

The word or concept homeostasis can be applied here. The family functions like the body is something is deemed out of kilter, it works very hard until the conditions are returned to what is the ideal state. So, if one member of the family decides to bow out from the cycle of bully and scapegoat, the family will do all it can to maintain that role for that person, if it is not compliant the whole thing goes into a spin. Families are almost organisms. The power shifts till the comfort of what is understood is re established. So for a narc when the pecking order gets upset they do what they can to reorder it. Narcs are also very controlling.

I am the emotional pressure release for all of them. It is me that has ended up in the psych departments, the suicide attempts the nutter label. Sick of it

TheHappyHissy · 14/06/2012 11:44

Guessing RA88 didn't read the thread then..

:)

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