OW perspective

[ListenBeforeJudging]

I'm fully expecting a flaming...this will be long.

I've spent many months lurking and reading the posts about all the affairs and suspected affairs and to be honest, it's helped me get over my own hurt. It's not often that the OW perspective is aired and I wanted to just let you all know that we're not all evil home-wreckers. There are always two sides to the story.

I had a male friend at work. We were good friends for quite a long time - nothing more in it. Then one day, out of the blue, he confessed that he'd fallen for me. I was gobsmacked, hadn't seen it coming and immediately distanced myself - I was angry with him as I didn't know what he wanted me to do with that information as a) he was married and b) I'd never thought of him like that.

I had a lot of time invested in our friendship and knew him well (albeit only at work) and knew he wasn't the typical straying type. I considered him a genuine friend so over time we talked it through. He confided that he felt that his marriage had broken down and that he'd been wanting to leave for at least two years (they'd been married for 8, had married young, no kids and it had descended into something platonic). He was terrified of leaving as he knew his wife was still in love with him and would be very hurt. His whole adult life, his family and all his friends were wrapped up with her.

For months we tried to put the situation behind us and carry on as normal but he told me that for the first time, he knew that he had to leave as if was capable of feeling the feelings he had for me there was no way back to fix his marriage.

We became closer and I started to develop feelings for him but still nothing happened between us. Then he told me that he was going to tell her that it was over. I was away and didn't see him for a week and when I came back he said he'd told her that he wanted out and that the 'wheels were in motion'. It was then that our affair began. We fell deeply in love.

With hindsight this was my biggest mistake and greatest regret. Long story short she was devastated, he couldn't go through with the pain he was causing her and for the next two years we had an on/off relationship (while managing somehow to have a consistent friendship) while he tried to extricate himself from the situation.

Then she found out. He cut me out of his life 'temporarily' while he 'sorted things out' (by this point we no longer worked together). I waited 3 months before seeing the light and telling him that it would never happen and that it was over. 4 months after that he left her. It was too late for us. There had been too much pain caused.

He was the love of my life. I still miss our friendship. I've felt the worst pain of my life over this.

My point to this story? I never planned to fall for him although I accept that I made some bad judgements and got in over my head emotionally. I've spent the last two years regretting what happened. I dream about his (now ex) wife often and want nothing more than to contact her to apologise for the part I played in her hurt - but I know that would just be indulgent and of no value to her when she's trying to move on.

My genuine belief is that if all was well in a marriage there would be no reason for a man to find solace/confidantes elsewhere. My advice? Talk about your concerns with your DH - before things get to the point that you can't communicate anymore.

I once got involved with a married man. We were on holiday with a group of girlies and met a few nice guys when we were in Spain. It was the summer of my 21st birthday, when we met and he was 25. Nothing happened whilst we were on holiday, it was only when we agreed to meet back home that we met up for a few drinks and went back to my flat afterwards. We spent 2 lovely weeks together. I had not been back to his, which was out of town but I had his number on which I called him a few times. He also ran his own business from home so it wasn't unusual for him not to answer the phone himself. Thinking about it, it is likely that I spoke to his DW on a few occasions thinking it was this mum?!

Anyway, after about 2 weeks he came clean and told me that he was married. He said he didn't want to tell me any sooner because he really liked me and wanted to leave this wife but that it was difficult because they had a business together. At that point I told him to Foxtrot Oscar and stopped taking his calls. I never expected that he was married and it had never occurred to me to ask if he was when we met.

A few weeks later he was waiting for me when I got home, he told me that he missed me and that he had told his wife. At that point I really wanted to believe him and spend the rest of our lives together but I just couldn't. Why would he not do the same to me as what he had done to her. Although I confess that this was not an easy decision for me to make. It took me a while to get over the relationship even though it was a short one. The sad thing is that at that time I did not once think about the pain his wife was going through. Even when she left a message on my answer phone calling me not very nice names did I not think about her feelings and that is what saddens me most when I think back to those days.

sugar - you do make me laugh, some of the things you have come out with are simply based on self delusion, fantasy and lies.

But its not surprising as those in affairs are not only lying to others but also and most of all to themselves.

As soon as your affair bubble burst, you will see for yourself what the reality is - that is if you have the emotional intelligence to be able to do this.

Believe - Spree is right.

This is especially true in those with strong morals and values - they find themselves attracted to OW which goes against their beliefs so in order to give themselves permission to have an affair, they begin distancing from their spouses, finding faults, picking arguments and so on. Its how they justify the affair.

I went out with someone who was 'separated' .. who used to call me for 3 hours every week night and who came to visit (he lived 3 hours away) on 3 weekends over the space of a 2 month period

I soon realised that he was very hard to get hold of etc .. he always called me and while he was working away from home and surprise!! It turns out he wasn't separated at all and so I finished it

A few months later I got an email from his wife - she'd hacked into his laptop and he had about 10 women on the go!!!

I explained that he'd lied to me and that I finished it as soon as I suspected he was still attached (he never admitted it!)

"Does anyone ever just think affairs happen because it is fundamentally against all of our natures to remain monogamous? So much pain, anger and hurt happens because of attempts to justify an entirely natural and occasionally overwhelming human need for sexual variety. Why can't we all just say - I've shagged my DH/DW for 25 years, I will go stark raving mad if I don't get a bit of variety. But that is viewed as so base/immoral/weak/pathetic that (men in particular) have to justify it by love. That's why men (and women, sometimes) in happy marriages are unfaithful. We just weren't born to monogamy and those that manage it do so by sublimating an awful lot of their natural instincts. Just a thought."

Oh dear - how true! The amount of misery that people cause themselves by believing that marriage is somehow a passport to lifetime blissful monogamy! If only there could be a bit more honesty and a bit less moral indignation around this whole subject area.

I also happen to think that marriage is often used as an excuse for control - control of money/children/power/sexuality - whatever it is. What I observe in (some) of the marriages and long term relationships around me is that there is often one partner who is seeking to control the other partner more. After a bit, the less controlling of the partners gets fed up and starts to act in a passive-aggressive way. So, typically, if the husband starts to feel nagged and hen-pecked by the wife, he will think: 'Sod this, I'm going to have some fun and flirt with other women when I get the chance.' Equally, if the wife is feeling that the husband doesn't care or make an effort, she will find ways of covertly doing what she wants to even out the power balance.

What pisses me off about the whole 'affair' stuff is the way that the mistress is always looked down upon as the scarlet woman with the husband 'being led astray'.

Even, apparently, when it is someone's sister who has been miserably married:

"My sister walked in those shoes (whom I dearly love by the way) after 25 years she had an affair which ended her marriage. I knew she had been unhappy for some years but my heart still broke for her husband and I told her she'd taken the coward's way out of the marriage."

I don't get this - her sister had been miserable and sought solace with someone else, yet the husband gets the sympathy - why? She was miserable with him, why would he want that?

And for the record if my partner was miserable, I would want him to do whatever he wanted to do to become less miserable - if that included an affair, so be it. Monogamy is totally over-rated anyway. Why would I want someone to be with me if they were miserable, surely that would be selfish and make me look like a harpie?

Tadpoles It is the lies and the deceit that are the hard things to bear .. not so much the having sex with someone else

Spree, that makes sense. I didn't think people meant thats the way it was after discovery rather than during. Thanks.

I have known one situation where the affair was discovered and both parties breathed a sigh of relief. Because despite the heartache and all the shit it caused, they now didn't have to hide or deceive any more. Still stinks by the way. And that's one situation, I'm sure 99% of others end exactly the way you describe.

I do also think that some men can genuinely want to be with the OW but don't because deep down they are good people who aren't selfish enough to actually rip their families apart. Suppose they don't realise that they've already done that by having the affair.

Spree said: "I've just read through the entire thread and there are a number of posters on here who claim there is no sympathy or understanding for the OW...

But I think it is also how the OW presents their case

If you continue trying to justify your affair, claiming it's different, special, you get a lot of flak. Same for any H's that had an affair, the more justification, the more flak from their wives.

There was a poster on fairly early called Lowra who told her story, saw her affair for what it was, understood her part in the awfulness of it and basically "owned her shit" and she received no flak at all, was commended for owning her part and taking responsibility for her actions."

I just wrote a post and got logged out, but basically Spree has just posted what I wanted to say.

I have posted on MN about infidelity fairly frequently over the last couple of years as I had two affairs some years ago, and have found that other posters are much more willing to listen and offer support if you "own your shit" and admit that most OW have affairs for the same reason as most OM - selfishness and a sense of entitlement.

It takes a great deal of self-awareness to admit that you are a selfish, self-absorbed cheat, and what saddens me is that the OW who try to justify their affairs make it hard for OW who want to come on here for support in ending their affairs and dealing with the personal, and possibly marital, consequences. That support is out there on MN, but too many people are scared that they are going to get flamed, because of the OW who feel it is right to try and justify their unjustifiable infidelity.

OP - my experience, and that of many of the women, both OW and DW, who post on here, would suggest that your argument that cheaters only stray when their primary relationship isn't good, is, in most cases, wrong. It's a shame that you don't feel able to come back and argue your case.

I remember one person who used to call and the relief he felt when his wife found out and suddenly she was being terribly nice to him for once, loads of sex and he was so happy. All he'd wanted was sex with his own wife, not necessarily the mistress. It didn't last long. She found she couldn't forget what he'd done then [ long story] he left and eventually married the mistress. So the sight of relief on discovery for the person cheating someone mentioned above seems to be common in these situations although it usually means transfer of burden from cheater to the one being cheated on.

Another one I never understood who loves his wife and is still married, she forgave him,. He had a break and then went back to the mistress in secret for the next 5 or 6 years until that broke up. One would imagine the wife was tolerating it but perhaps he was just extra careful. he loves her. They have sex. She's pretty and slim but he seemed to want the mistress too. It always fascinates me how different people can be.

Another example was David Blunkett's mistress, Kimberley Quinn who had a child of Blunketts whilst married to her husband who accepted the child into his family and stayed with Ms Quinn.

The second scenario is common I think. People assume too much that the man doesn't have any real honest-to-goodness feelings for the OW. She's just a bit on the side. It's just not true in some cases. I should imagine that sometimes he feels torn, and regret for not being with the OW. just not enough to sacrifice his family. He doesn't lose any feelings for his wife, but he gains feelings for someone else.

But I'm so special and different and add value to his marriage. Our affair is different....

Hahaha, keep on telling yourself that. Chapter 3 page 1 in the OW Handbook "Why affairs can be good for the marriage"

OW's, You are nothing but a cliche.

"I would never have an affair because I have values that mean that I would not knowingly get involved with someone who is attached to someone else ...

I think I am perfectly within my rights to know that I will never have an affair 40"

Yes KirstyWirsty, you do. But you missed the point. I thought I had those same values, I was wrong. Anyone can be wrong about something they think they know.

Hopefully, you won't be wrong, but it's not about what you believe now, it's about what you may do if your circumstances/feelings ever change. None of us can possibly KNOW, so don't be so stroppy.

I think its just good that women are having this open debate and I am enjoying reading from all the intelligent women posting.

I STILL think that every woman and man needs : friends, family (if possible but not possible sometimes) and money.

No matter what happens then, we'll be alright. I think everyone ought to enter into their marriage with this in mind. It seems we cannot guarantee things....

Yes I think you can know. I could have been the OW in my teens. I genuinely thought he was the love of my life. But I walked away as soon as I knew he was with someone. Tbh it wasn't just for his gf, although its part of it, it was for me. I KNOW I couldn't be happy knowing I had done something that is so against my personal moral code.

40 - KirstyW is not being stroppy but tbh she has the right to be after what you have posted which is basically that you think she has the same morals as you.

JustFab, I didn't comment on her morals, as is evident from my post if you read it properly. I was saying none of us can possibly KNOW without a shadow of a doubt how we will react in any given situation, until we are in it. We can know how we think we'll react, how we intend to react, how we should react and how we would like to react, but we can be wrong.

I loathed people who cheated, I thought I would never do it, never be able to do it, never even allow myself to be in a position where I was able to do it. I was wrong. None of us can ever be sure, however well we think we know ourselves.

It is depressing that the OW keep falling for the same lines.
Op - your advice would surely be better given to potential OWs,(not that they would ever listen, becuase they would be convinced they are 'special' etc.
The OP's lover had no kids - therefore he couldn't even use the excuse that his wife put thte kids first and he was left out ( and as A bit wobbly said in hre comparion with the male bird - kids do need to have priority, they are helpless, needs their parents)
Why aren't OW brave enogh to walk away and say 'you know hwere t find me if you ver leave your wife' and if it is ture love, he they can get together afterwards.
Ohterwise, in most case all she will ever be is a transitional woman, gerenally discarded if the man ever does leave his wife..

Yes you CAN know. Some people do have the courage of their convictions. When they say something, they do so with a backbone and mean it.

We have plenty of vulnerabilities....kids...working away....sn....stressful jobs....lots and lots.

However my husband is very much a selfless person, more so than me. But we make an effort. See I know that in the next 50 years, god willing. I probably will come across the potential of an affair....never been short of offers and I've had a few in recent times actually. None have bothered me, I've told dh about every one. Not to mention I do know that one day I could well be tempted, I'm human after all. But then comes the crunch. Do I want to lose my family, my husband, everything we have worked for. Do I want to hurt them all, NO! So even during a time of a lull, say sick kids, working away. If mr charming comes along, could I be tempted, probably? But I know, I know I've got the willpower to say no, because that is my character.

Same goes for my husband, we talk about it. I've been propositioned by a very good looking, rich married man, very recently. Would be easy for me to have an affair, easy. We work hard, we have a good life but not without a it's stresses. But this guy, is well a selfish prick and fits the cheaters profile to a T. No doubt trying it onto the next sucker that wants to rescue him from his celibate life. Ahem...bollocks.

40 you can know. If you know yourself. I was in the situation, I chose not to. As I know I would in the future. You don't know, because you did. Even thought you never could.
But that's you not everyone else. Just because you don't have the confidence to know something about yourself doesn't mean the rest are the same.

40, I still think you were being negative about KW. You said she can't know if she would cheat - like you did - as she feels she wouldn't, as you did, but you did. Anyway, this isn't your thread and I am sure KW can speak for herself but I felt strongly enough to make my posts.

'Just because you don't have the confidence to know something about yourself doesn't mean the rest are the same.'

I never said everyone was the same., I said we are fooling ourselves if we think we know. That doesn't mean there aren't people, on this thread and outside the increasingly Kafka-esque world that is MN, who could say right now that they 'would never cheat' and be right about that. I have no idea how many people would fall into that bracket, or the bracket I fall into, it doesn;t matter. The point, surely, is that it is dangerous to assume? And that's all it is when anyone says 'I would never do that'.... it's an assumption of who we like to think we are.

HoP, that expression has most certainly been used before, not by me, and that is why it is in inverted commas in my post. As I am sure you very well realise.