Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships Number *9*

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

If you find that he really wants to change
I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

well describing it is a good start...most of us don't even begin with the idea that we count as much as the other people in out households!

No, it was a good course - perhaps got me to the point of finding you all on here
And now looking forward to reading some of those books you've recommended.
In one preview I've been reading Lundy says "You will be alright whatever happens" eg. whichever path you end up taking - which, for me at the moment, was quite reassuring
Obviously for most people some paths will be better than others though

...yes, but you can only do the best you can do at the time. The thing is to be able to forgive yourself for the mistakes, learn from them and move on...that is life. Not one of us will have a perfect one. We just aim to make it the best it can be.

You're right, of course. He's away at the moment, so I keep thinking he's not that bad, actually he can be quite kind, supportive and encouraging and what if he ever read this? (Which is very unlikely, I think.) It feels disloyal. But there's noone I can talk to irl, and I need to keep talking about it so that you can all say there is something here to be upset about, so I don't keep on normalising it. I also need to get into my head that this is going to take months to work through - I need lots of examples in my journal and on here so that I can see clearly what's going on, because I have been ignoring so much for so long.

Thanks guys, I am feeling philosophical about my exam today, yesterday I floated around in a post-traumatic stress haze. juggling I took DD to see the flame when it went past us as well, just so I can tell her when she's older that she did see it even if she can't remember.

Anastasia you really need to get away from him love, I wish I'd done that pre-marriage and pre-DC. It would have been so much easier. Think how difficult it would be to get away if you were married with kids. That's what I'm facing and every day I kick myself for not running for the hills when I could have got away.

Today maybe you could ask for a Ferrari?

wellies big hugs, and rant away if it helps it all make sense!

My NSDH is seeming quite chilled at the moment, although the hints about sex are dropping in more and more. I still don't want it, I don't really want it with anybody right now. It's been over 3 months, and I don't know why.

I made a decision the night before my exam. Now it's over I'm going to make a big effort to tidy my stuff (I'm a bit of a hoarder), sell a few things to keep pushing myself out of debt, and buy some big storage crates so it feels like I'm moving out even if I'm not. I think it will be good for my head.

Apologies in advance for a me-me-me post. I just need to tell someone.

Last night NSDH decided that DD was not behaving (he was correct, she has been defiant and stubborn lately) so he slapped her. Now that I don?t have so much of an issue with, a tap on the bum or hand to get attention perhaps is ok in certain circumstances. However he slapped her hard, and when she instinctively tried to retaliate, he went for her with a vicious expression on his face, so that she scrambled away in fear. I happened to walk into the bedroom just after the slap and before the retaliation so stood between him and the child. I just pointed at the door and told him to get out, I was honestly frozen with fear as all I could think was that he was going to beat her, or me for standing in his way. I have to say that this being my immediate and automatic thought was a major wake up call for me.

I dealt with the situation and when my 3 yr old DS said ?thank you Mummy for stopping Daddy chasing DD, you made him stop, you put your hand out?, I almost lost my composure.

I spoke to NSDH this morning, I handed him Chapter 1 from shouldistay and asked him to read it and to think about it. I also gave him 3 examples of unacceptable behaviour, including the above, and asked him to think about it and how it might make me feel. Fundamentally if DD is afraid of him and I am afraid of him then that is a major turning point for me. He pooh-poohed my fear of course, then tried to turn it back on me and my shortcomings so at that stage I ended the conversation (making it clear why I was doing so).

It?s fucking hard work this marriage business. Sigh.

ForSale, he slapped your DD so hard that she (& you) feared that he would go further and beat her.

"He pooh-poohed my fear of course, then tried to turn it back on me and my shortcomings so at that stage I ended the conversation"

He showed no remorse or understanding that what he did was unacceptable. You need to get yourself and your DCs away from him asap.

This is not 'fucking hard work' this is an abusive bully taking out his own frustrations and anger on a child, in front of another child. What a man

Sorry to hear of your and DD's experience last night, bidder
Well done for making it OK for her (or as OK as you could)

You're right it is hard work - but thinking it shouldn't be this hard

DoingIt, I suppose what I meant re the hard work is that its hard work trying to rationalise this stuff and make the hard decisions.

And yes, no remorse or understanding is a major warning sign for me. He has physically pushed me, knocked me over, that kind of thing in the past and has never shown any remorse for it either. I suppose because he hasn't done it in a long time I thought it had gone away. DUH.

Oh your poor DD ForSale. About him poo-poohing your fear, that is so typical. My X knew I was scared to death of him, and he made no attempt to reassure me in any way. Thing is, I know there are nice men out there, in fact I know most of them are nice, it's a shame for us that we got landed with the fuckers that we did.
Nini I like your idea of storage crates. Who knows where it will lead you?

lost its a good idea to get lots of examples.

im very upset at the minute as this mornings counselling did not go well at all. it kicked off when we were asked what had changed and, because i didn't say too much, he accused me of being too negative, a negative person, he is not going to come to counselling anymore if all we do is focus on the negatives etc. he has tried so hard etc etc and if i don't appreciate it then theres no point. he went on and on and on. im just so upset now.

its just that, there have been no arguments the past 2 weeks (apart from this morning before counselling and after). but 2 weeks isn't enough for me, and its because we have hardly seen each other. the time we did spend was ok - neutral. our marriage needs a lot of work to make it what i want it to be. but apparently tihs is being very negative and he can't handle it.

he says he is scared to go to counselling cos of what i say when i open my mouth (ie things did not go well this week) the truth is I am scared to open my mouth - look what happened when i was honest today!

so she was asking what the main things to change were and i said a lack of respect - she was asking for examples, and of course i couldn't remember any - as usual - because, in hope, i have'nt kept records. thats why i am saying lostmywellies, its a great idea to just start keeping a little account so you see what is going on.

i have read back on some old diaries from last year and every day its arguments, can't cope, stress anxiety, arguments, etc. i stopped keeping the diary - but i started again today.

he said today that he is disrespecting me (for today) because he is 'fed up' and because i was too negative in counselling (ie i said he was disrespectful when he has been respecting me for 2 weeks) but i was talking in general terms - not just about the past 2 weeks.

i am so sorry for this all over the place message.

if anyone makes any sense of it, thank you for taking the time to read - my head is everywhere

So many struggling through the FOG at the moment. It is such hard work ladies..keep on going. Seeing clearly is the beginning of making good decisions for you and your loved ones..whatever those decisions turn out to be.

dear member of my family in same situation as me (I knew she has just woken up to it)...has brought back the feelings of last September..It is physically painful at the mo. not as bad as it is for her obviously.

we have not been support for each other as i was ahead and she was banned from seeing me, and then struggling, and now disappearing for a while

need someone with older (lateteenage DDs) for some wisdom as they are being massively manipulated by their DF

Oh dear jan that's so hard to deal with. It's very difficult coming clean to these sorts of men because of the consequences later. I don't know what to suggest, but have a rant every day and use it as your diary if you need to.

She was banned from seeing you fool? Poor woman, you are probably exactly the kind of person she could relate to, can you get in touch for mutual support?

I think we will get together now that she is out of the FOG too....

That's good. I hope she doesn't end up going back...so many do

ForSale - your post makes you sound so strong and together! Giving your reasons, talking firmly but calmly and so on. Go you! Do you have a plan for what happens next?

jan - should you be doing joint counselling if he is abusive...? at choosing to be disrespectful but saying his behaviour is your fault.

She may well go back.

She is still at the stage of waiting for him to have a lightbulb moment and finally admit that he is the problem....you know and I know that this is very very unlikely

....but we've been there...it has to be worked through and some people close their eyes and go back, some step out and ask him to change before considering going back.

He is same family as my NSDH, same mould, different flavour...more cleverly manipulative and their DDs are buying his story at present...they are both away off to Uni in Sept and I dread that they will end up with the same (or worse) sort of twats that their mum and I did.

There are times when it is just rubbish being older and wiser. (shall therefore stick to being oldish and foolish!)

Jan you should NOT be doing joint counselling really should you....is your counsellor turned on to the possibility of abuse?

Jan, I would agree, joint counselling is probably not of much use to you. I speak from experience. I spent most of my time in counselling sobbing quietly while he picked holes in me, my family, my mental health, my financial incompetence etc. The times that I did get to talk about my side, I didn't have the balls to be completely honest about what was going on, mainly because I thought it was just as much my fault as his.

wellies, I have 2 plans at present - 2.5 to be exact! The 0.5 being to present NSDH with the facts and the info from shouldistay and see what happens (don't hold much hope there).
Then I can either stay in my job, stop paying the mortgage and bills long enough to get money together to get out and pay rent OR take the redundancy from work and go (probably safer option as more cash).

Still mulling over my options.

Foolonthehill, so glad that your sister now has you to support and advise her. Wishing her all the best in whatever happens.

Well NSDH gave me a lift to the bus this morning as he needed the car so I asked him if he could read the info that I printed off for him (which was still sitting where I left it), so he started off on ?what?s the point in engaging with you when you won?t listen to me when I point out the errors of your ways etc etc? ? so I just said ?stop that, of course I won?t listen when all you do is criticise and nit pick?. So he threw the shouldistay info out of the window.. Have to say that kind of made me giggle. Yet another example of his complete lack of logic or control.

Hope everyone is well today. I am looking forward to a nice weekend with my DC and lots of hugs and playtime.

how do you know theres no hope for things to get better?

about a month ago my FW came up to the bedroom at 7am and pulled the baby out of my arms, then tried to drag me out of bed and down the stairs because i wouldn't get up and find a piece of paper work he needed. i was asleep! i then went down styas holding the baby and he attacked me again so i called the police. he has allways been very careful not to actually punch me and afterwards says 'what did i actually do? i didn't hit you did i?' the police just told him to leave for a few hours and if i rang them again they would get social services out, great help!
anyway since then i have just lost me fear off him, i don't care if he beats me black and blue coz then at least everyone will know what he's really like and he would have to move out. so as a result my attitude has changed, i don't do his washing, make his lunches for work or run around after him. i don't care if he's angry i just tell him to f off if he doesn't like and if he starts shouting i just say 'what are you going to do? beat me up'
the funny thing is this has tottally tipped the balance in our relationship. he hasn't shouted or been abusive since then, i even locked him out of the house one night coz he came back drunk and i had told him i didn't want to be around him when he's drunk. he slept in the freezing damp shed and i really enjoiyed knowing he was out ther!! is that awful?
i am looking for my own house but with 2 small kids its going to be sooo hard to leave. i dont really have any help from family with the kids and im just not sure i can completeley do it on my own.
im thinking of just staying as things are, i don';t behave like we are acouple but just talk to him in regard to the kids/dinner/bedtimes and stuff. or will he slowly worm his vile way back in and start bullying me again?
sorry for long rambling post but im sooo confused. thanks for listening

bellarose, IMO if you have been operating like this for a month and he hasn't shown any indication of seeking help or change regarding his behaviour, I think you should go or get him to go.
Living in a stalemate position like that must be horrible for everyone and you and your children don't deserve that. Yes, I know I am speaking as someone who is still living with her own FW but I am making my own plans and we have done a lot of work on our issues, which has kept me hanging in there for the last few years.
What is your gut telling you? Your current option is not the best one, I know other options are scary and overwhelming but think about your future and the childrens and the example you are setting them regarding what is normal in a relationship.

forsale: i know you are right but i just feel so exhausted everyday from looking after kids, cleaning, cooking shopping that i don't feel i have any strength left to move house on my own. i know most woman on here are in the same postion.
i have no desire to try and talk to him or work things out because i know where it will end. us shouting because he never has admitted or apoligised for anything and i just come out of it feeling like its all my fault or im going mad because he denies things have happened or been said.

I tried that one Bella, staying together but 'detaching', it is just as soul destroying to be sharing a living space with someone you don't really love, regardless of what the actual level of interaction is. The minute he moved out it felt like a weight had been lifted (he said the same, because obviously having to live with people who spend their lives bending over backwards to help you and tip toeing around trying to please you must be awful )

But the upshot is, you can't be married and not have a relationship - that's not even a compromise, its just a waste of life. The resentment will still be there, he will find other ways to take the piss if he isn't being violent and the emotional abuse is every bit as damaging as physical in my view.

You and your children deserve better than what he can give you and once you are no longer spending any energy on worrying about what the twunt is thinking or doing you will have so much more time and energy for yourself and kids.

sorry bella the way you are feeling - i have felt like that a lot - it takes all the energy to keep going never mind trying to figure out what to do about the relationship and about moving out and all that.
i agree that detachment is soo difficult. you still have to talk to them, they still affect you, you still get hurt. plus if youre like me you end up avoiding them so spending large amounts of time in one room (ie my bedroom) when he is downstairs i am upstairs etc

yeh, the joint counselling thing is not working. he keeps threatening not to go back. maybe i should just say im not going back. im so tired of it all. and i don't want an individual counsellor as i would have to get a new counsellor which i don't want to have to build a whole new relationship - plus i can't drive there myself and don't want to be dependent on him everyweek as that causes more problems. a break from it all would be good. i have been offered one to one with a WA women instead so maybe that would be better. i'll go next week though, to wrap it up and say thankyou.

im just worried that without outside help things will get worse - and i wanted us to realy work on it in the summer (i had hope - give it to the end of the summer)