Shocked by my feelings of anger and contempt for DH

[Shadene]

We have a longish marriage (15 years) and have always treated each other with kindness and respect.

But this evening he suddenly told me that I shouldn't have mentioned to my brother how much he earns and that I'm not to tell anyone else. (I mentioned it to my brother in front of him in the context of a conversation about mortgage multiples - we are toying with the idea of buying a share of my mums home and developing it). He knows my brother well by the way - DB and I are quite close and they were friends before we married.

The thing that's freaked me out is how strong my reaction has been to him saying this. I feel FURIOUS with him and humiliated that he said this in ear shot of my 13 year old dd. She is really difficult at the moment and has made a point of trying to play us off against each other. She will bring it up next time we clash about anything as part of her general theme on the subject of what an embarrassment I am and how I'm always in the wrong about everything. Her behaviour towards me has been so abusive and nasty it's driven me into a depression. I'm so angry with DH about 'ticking me off' in front of her and making me feel like a child.

Also shocked by the contempt I feel towards him for being so fucking bourgeois.

I'm in bed alone crying. I'm upset by the strength of my feelings and don't know where this is coming from.

Is there a counsellor at your daughter's school who could help her sort out what she is angry about? OP , chin up dreading the teenage years

I think the OP is getting an unnecessarily harsh time from some commenters. I feel similarly about talking about money - don't really know why it's such a big deal in British culture (yes, people make a big thing about it and therefore it has impact, but why make such a big thing about it in the first place, who knows). Unless it had come up in advance I too wouldn't think it was so utterly private a big deal as not to mention it as part of a relevant discussion with a close family member. It's often a good idea to apologise even if you don't really feel in yourself you've done something wrong - not in order to be crawly but because people do feel differently about things, and fair enough - but all the talk about the OP being unreasonable not to have thought about it in advance strikes me as rather OTT. Likewise the sidetrack on boarding school - I didn't reckon that the OP's reply to the person who first suggested it was worth being taken in such a negative spirit either.

Clearly, as the earlier comments suggested, there is more going on here than the specific thing that has driven the OP to sudden fury. Whenever I've felt this sort of thing it's been because of some underlying relationship problem, not necessarily noticed yet at the time of the explosion happening. I would imagine that in this case the problem isn't very hidden, because the stress of the DD's behaviour sounds like quite enough to cause all sorts of underlying tensions. Presumably it is causing tensions in the OP's DH too, and maybe he is making a bigger deal of it than he might have done at another time?

Shadene

Have tried posting about your DD on the 'teenagers' thread? You will find it under Being a Parent. There you will find a lot of people with a lot of very good advice and a lot of similar experience to yours. MaryZ is particularly good so if you get advice from her, take note.

God some of you are being vile to a depressed woman at the end of her tether.
Poor OP, you sound like you are having a hell of a time. You weren't to know your DH didn't want you mentioning finances. You certainly weren't 'impertinent' (wtf?). He should have told you not told you off.
I suspect you feel hugely unsupported around the issues with your DD.
Can you talk this over with him?

Shadene

I think my words were perhaps not well chosen, but I stand by the sentiment. The fact is, that your DD is a child, and whilst you feel abused by her behaviour, the fact that you are depressed means that rather than being able to work with her to understand where it is coming from and change it, (or if that's not possible, to remove yourself from it) you feel victimised.

A child who sees their parent struggling emotionally, is, unfortunately, not very likely to show sympathy. I know this because I have suffered from depression myself. It does sound as if you feel ground down and alone with this, which is why it seemed as if your DH was playing into your feeling of being attacked and undermined. Does he know how you feel?

I think the suggestion to get some help from the teen forum is really good. Wish you well.

dd sounds like a handful, although like some of the others am uncomfortable about some of your statements about her.

(Grounding for months at a time doesn't sound like a good idea!)

As well as the teens board, the special needs board on here is also v good, including on things like battling with authorities, diagnosis etc.

It seems from one of your posts that you are not taking the anti-depressants suggested by your GP? And not having counselling, since this wasn't offered. If you can afford it, private counselling might be helpful. It sounds like trying to cope with the depression alone without medication or talking therapy isn't working for you.

Similarly, how about some advice/support for DD? If her behaviour is affecting the family, then outside help might be needed.

On the money thing, you sound judgmental of your DH, and of "conspicuous consumption". Lots of people feel like your DH.

My DH earns a lot, and I earn a good wage too (part time). DHconsumes what you would consider conspicuously (mainly big house, expensive car). And we are considering private school for the DC. In the past he was open, if asked directly, about what he earned, and the rough level of what I earn is public (public sector pay scales). BIL earns even more than DH and SIL is a SAHM. We have had soooooo many unsolicited negative comments from close friends and family about our incomes/choices, some quite nasty. Examples: "well, we'd rather spend time with our family than earn what you do; "money is more important to you than your DC"; " if you send the DC to private school they will become spoiled brats / drug addicts"; "DC won't get good grades if they're thick, wherever they go to school"; SIL's family expecting BIL to pay for every meal out ("you can afford it") and calling her lazy for stopping work (to care for small DC).

OP, what is your reaction to your DD when she follows you round the house, screaming at you because you didn't buy her crisps? Do you move away from her, hoping that she will go away? I wonder if somehow you fear her loss of love.

You see, I thought about that scenario WWID: I would stop, turn round and stick my face in my daughter's face - calm controlled and furious. HOW DARE YOU. DO NOT SPEAK TO ME LIKE THAT.

Then, when things were calmer, ask her why she is angry: do you hate DB being a dweeb? Do you think I could do a better job as a mum?

If you are calm and sure of yourself you will get some home truths and you could be able to take them.

But why does she [appear to] ally herself with powerful Dad and try and buck up pathetic you?

Dozer, my experiences are similar. have not told anyone what we earn for ages! Not even family.

I want to avoid these 'jokes'.

I know that if it she was an adult it would be ok to point out that her abuse of me is damaging my mental health. But as she is a child it's not - because as her mother I'm supposed to be able to cope

Sod that, OP. Your dd is making your life a misery! She deserves to know that. Oh & if my dd spoke to me that way, she would get a slap for it. Not saying that you should, or that it is the right response. But no way would my child disrespect me so much as to talk to me like a piece of shit on her shoe. How are you showing her that she is out of order?

It seems to be that by simply pointing out that you don't like talking about money you're usually signifying that you have quite a lot of it

We don't have quite a lot of it in fact we don't have enough of it by a long chalk. Still don't like discussing it though. No one knows what my dh earns. It's a private matter.

Forget what I just said about your daughter...after reading your Monday 15.12 post, I can kinda see why she views you with such contempt!

You seem to think you are above everyone else, that you will do/say what the hell you like & everyone can hang the consequences. And if people don't like it...tough!!

I wonder, what confidence did you break of your daughter's to make her resent you so much? Because regardless of what others have said, that level of disrespect & contempt are OTT for even the brattiest (I don't like that word, but cannot think of a different one right now) 13yr olds!

I hope perhaps that someone will some day explain the ethics and social mores behind our cultural neurosis about discussing money in a way which helps me sympathize with his feelings, as at the moment this is a struggle for me

There is no explanation needed. Just for YOU to understand that some people, your dh included don't like to do it. I get the feeling that your lack of "getting it" & sympathizing is doing way more damage to your family than your daughter's temper & your dh dislike of discussing money put together!

I had two close friends whose relationships with their mothers were saved by boarding school. It took every bit of ground for arguments away - clothes, friends, homework, helping round the house to mother's OCD standards (not saying that about you by the way!). By being allowed to go away and be independent (they chose the school though from a short list) it gave both of them the breathing space they needed, and to get out of what had become a vicious circle.

There is the argument that sending a child away = rejection. However one friend (who had IMO a v good reason for not speaking to her mother) was given the choice by her father of boarding school or speak to her mother. She chose boarding school. She now speaks to her mother!

I think you are in a negative spiral and you need to break it - fast!

Another quote which helps me is that "children need love most when they least deserve it". I try to keep that going round my head when DD is pressing all my buttons deliberately to try and get a reaction.

Good luck with sorting out the issue with your daughter, sounds very difficult to me. Your GP may have some advice re. organisations which may be able to help. I agree with AbitWobbly about what happens re. adolescence, a possible withdrawal, sensitivity and so forth and how normal and vital this is for their development. But (to me anyway) abject rudeness, disrespect and nastiness is not acceptable. You don't have to put up with it, but you may need some exra help on this.

Im not sure that the dd's behaviour- though obviously unacceptable- is so bad that you have to contemplate either a doctor or a boarding school. I have a 12yo who is flexing his muscles in a very similar way: we make it quite clear that this is not on, he gets pulled up every time, but he still keeps trying. I don't think there is anything wrong with him; we just need to keep plugging away.

My major problem is that though I always back dh up in front of ds, dh himself seems incapable of asserting his personality, so I am left with the choice of either letting ds get away with things he shouldn't (including disrespect of dh) or of wading in and risk undermining dh by showing ds that his dad needs to be rescued.

It's actually horrendously tricky and I do wish dh could help me by staying calmer and more assertive and by fighting more of his own battles. I feel I can't win: if I don't wade in, I am showing ds that his dad can't make him behave- and if I do wade in, I am still showing ds that his dad can't make him behave (but that I can). Ds comments on it openly: I shut him up every time and get angry with him- but in doing so I am still demonstrating the same thing, that I am the person with authority. It's not nice for either of us- in fact it's not nice for any of us three; ds is clearly unsettled by seeing the person of his own sex struggling.

So in a way I can understand were the OP's dh is coming from; it is a very difficult situation for both parents.

We are trying to sit down and sort out techniques that will help dh- the problem is that the moment he is in the actual situation, he gets all stressed and forgets about them. I don't think walking on eggshells or trying to keep ds away from family information is the way forward, though: I don't want ds ever to get the idea that we are afraid of him. Instead I am encouraging his dad to involve him more in adult discussions, hoping they will find some neutral ground and that ds will see how much there is about his dad that does deserve respect.

"It's not right that your DH ticks you off and makes you feel like a child, Shadene. What are you? Junior employee in the family firm? If he doesn't like something you've said or done, he should bring it up in private, and without being disrespectful. It should certainly never be done in front of children."

I totally agree with this from much earlier in the thread.

Accidentally revealing information about family finances in front of your brother is not in the same league as treating your spouse like a bold child in front of one of your children.

Your mistake was unintentional, his was not.

I'm sorry so many people are clearly getting a little buzz out of attacking you on this thread :(

Cory you are commenting on a very modern phenomena: Dads who can't bear to say 'no'. They have to be the nice guy so Mum balances it out by having to be a witch.

THIS dynamic comes up again and again and again: fathers acknowledge it, too. 'I come home from work and all I want is peace'!

What happened to old fashioned fathers!!

Thing, Shadene does come across as resistant to hearing anything she doesn't want to hear. A bit abrasive too. Only things that are acknowledged can be worked on.

Abitwobblynow Thu 07-Jun-12 14:28:24
"Cory you are commenting on a very modern phenomena: Dads who can't bear to say 'no'. They have to be the nice guy so Mum balances it out by having to be a witch."

It's not actually that he can't bear to say no; in fact, he is constantly nagging ds. It's just that he doesn't sound very assertive- he sounds whiny and irritable and sorry for himself; the message ds is getting from his tone of voice and body language is "I feel miserable because I know I can't make you obey".

I heard him the other night spend an hour and a half just trying to get ds to bed. Because it takes him so long to get a result, he ends up spending almost all his time with ds nagging; they simply don't seem to get time for much else.

I don't really have different rules and I don't pick different battles; it's just that I get results in 2 seconds flat because I sound brisk and authoritative- so it leaves far more time for other types of interaction between ds and me.

It really worries me because I want dh respected- I respect him and love him- but I can't do that work for him.

(as for wanting peace after work, I work far later hours than he does)

Sorry, about thread hijack- this clearly isn't about the OP at all.