Being drink does not mean you deserve it.

[OhNoMyFanjo]

I have been reading some comments on tge DM site re an interview with a women who was raped. Her rapist has just been convicted. She has had many terrible things said about her in her community due to the rapist being a pillar of tge community.

I wanted to share this comment that someone has made as it sums up what should be obvious to everyone but unfortunately there are some people who don't get it.

You don't get raped because you are drunk - you vomit because you are drunk. You get raped because the rapist standing next to you made the decision to rape you and acted on it. The rapist is the only one accountable for going on to rape a person. End.

It's sick. Some of the readers of this thread will have been raped after consuming alcohol, it doesn't matter how many times someone pretends not to be saying 'it wouldn't have happened if you were not drunk' by saying 'if you don't drink you are less vulnerable'. It's not true.

The real vulnerabilities are things nobody can control such as being female, being young, history of sexual abuse as a child, mental illness and learning difficulties, physical disability.

I am fairly heartened overall. The marital defence to rape was only removed 12 years ago... We've come a long way.

Unfortunately still a long way to go

Only got to page 13, so will catch up eventually, but I wanted to reply to this by bumbleymummy

"Which I haven't said at all. I have said that if there is a rapist targeting drunk women walking home alone and you are not walking home alone and drunk then you will avoid that particular rapist."

That's fair enough, but only in the same way as if you'd written,
"if there is a rapist targeting brunette women and you are not brunette then you will avoid that particular rapist"

It is logical, but it doesn't mean you'd advise women to dye their hair blonde.

Blackout, that's the point exactly

Bumbly, What happens if you're raped sober, what are you going to tell yourself then

I was raped in the cold light of day, sober, in a public park, with people 15 feet away. I was being raped before I knew it by a guy I knew. I froze. I was wearing tights, a long skirt and a long sleeved top. I was covered head to toe. Is that my fault. I don't think so

I have also lost count of the times I've been out at night, had a drink, walked SAFELY home. I was safer drunk

empusa she hadn't even started...

I haven't read the whole thread but I have read parts and I'm very glad to see that there are plenty of articulate, well informed people trying to combat the ignorance around rape.

To be fair I think people hold onto these myths as a form as a form of psychological defence - if you convince yourself that by not getting drunk you are preventing yourself from being raped you don't have to face the fact that rape is something that can just happen to you, out of the blue, with no rhyme of reason, and with no alcohol, coercion, or violence involved. One day you can be an ordinary woman going about your business and the next, through no fault of your own, you can be a rape survivor. It is easier to think "Well I'm careful, I don't do stupid things, it won't happen to me." It's bollocks, but if it helps you to feel safe, then hang onto it, and hope you never have to face up to the fact that nothing can stop you from being raped if you happen to come in contact with a rapist who has you in their sights.

I was raped multiple times as a child, and then once as an adult. In all but one of those incidents, I started out asleep, in bed. You could conclude from that that sleeping is dangerous and that to avoid being raped no woman should ever sleep. I'm not sure how helpful that would be to anybody though.

Well I'm off to bed now, just wanted to say this is the first time I've seen a thread like this where the posters who dispel the myths far out-numbered the victim blamers. And thank you to the posters who have shared their experinces, I have no idea how hard that must have been you are all amazing

I believe you

There are some truly awful stories here. Many, many ((((hugs)))) to you all. Bumbley. Please just get it. Your average woman is not raped by a knife wielding psychopath. If she was, being sober wouldn't help.

I must agree with cailin I think some people hold onto these things the same way as I hold onto my house keys - really, someone could put a brick through the window but it makes me feel nice to lock up. Where the massive problem occurs is that if you lock up women as things and place the onus on them to curtail their rights and freedoms, you end up with a repressive society, victim-blaming, and more sexual violence, not less.

Ahhh to bed. y'all

x

I just want to add, if you do believe rape myths, keep that to yourself. Don't ever say it to another woman because if you do, you could well be inflicted untold pain on her. Rape survivors are the best of all at finding reasons why they were responsible for being raped, and hearing a friend or family member saying "Well I think such and such was silly to get drunk, I mean what did she expect, it put her in more danger," will more than likely cause that rape victim to go home and beat herself up that bit longer. She will sit there and think "Yes, she's right, if I hadn't been drunk..." and you will be responsible for that extra bit of pain and doubt she has to endure.

YY 'if only I'd ...' is so prevalent and pointless.
Like nomnou 'kill yourself or never get born' - pretty accurate
Rape is caused by rapists
That is all

Not surprised that some of my posts have been deleted. I fully admit I got really angry last night and broke talk guidelines.

But I have to say MNHQ you've let yourselves down in a big way by leaving any of her posts on. What happened to your We Believe You ethos? Silly me. I thought that was something you were serious about.

As a rape survivor I am glad to stand up with other posters on this thread against posters who are victim blaming.

Having been blamed in rl it's great to know there are some people out there who don't blame victims.

These threads are good ways to show victims that we can stand up for ourselves and we are NOT responsible in any way for being raped

I know a few posters got angry but your fight gives so much strength to victims, so keep fighting

In no way at all should any victim take responsibilty

These threads also give victims ways to stand up to victim blamers in rl and I know I've learnt a lot of ways to stand up for myself in rl by the responses of some of the amazing posters on here.

I've also learnt how to spot a "blamer" and can use what I've learnt to avoid that here and in rl.

Dirona what brilliant posts! You're a very courageous woman :)

Maybe they realised that none of my posts said that I didn't believe them or that I was blaming them Walter. Some people do actually understand the point I was making. Empusa was one of them and there were another couple of posters earlier in the thread who made similar points. None of us are 'victim blamers'.

Not getting drawn into this again...

No, you just wanted to have the last word...

Bumbley people are not necessarily saying you are trying to blame victims. They are trying to point out how your attitudes are promoting and perpetuating "victim blaming" which helps to justify and entitle rapists to rape and keeps women from reporting violations by entitled rapists.

"Bumbley people are not necessarily saying you are trying to blame victims."

Actually offered, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what a lot of the posters on this thread were doing. You can read back and refresh your memory if you like although I think some of the more offensive ones have been deleted now.

Yes I said she was "fucking pathetic" and I'm sorry I lowered myself.

But when I read things like this: women saying other women shouldn't get
drunk? My blood boils. It does. Because the ONLY thing we should be saying is that rapists shouldn't rape. That's all! That's it! It really is that simple.

bumbley - no matter how you word it, you are saying that if you are drunk, you are more at risk of being raped. Plenty of posters have given the reasons why that just is not true. The only risk of being raped occurs when you MEET a rapist.

How would you feel if a poster was reading this thread who had been raped whilst drunk, then carried on feeling that it was HER fault = she shouldn't have drunk so much, she shouldn't have put herself in such a situation, she w
should have fought back etc etc. When NONE of that is her fault. The fault lies solely with the rapist. You ARE blaming the victim.

bumbleymummy Sun 03-Jun-12 22:14:01
Maybe they realised that none of my posts said that I didn't believe them or that I was blaming them Walter. Some people do actually understand the point I was making. Empusa was one of them and there were another couple of posters earlier in the thread who made similar points. None of us are 'victim blamers'.

MNHQ are very clear, personal attacks will be deleted, people who quote rape myths will be left to stand as other posters answer and educate them. They've posted this a number of times, eg see tge deletions titled tgread in site stuff. You should not take non-deletion as MNHQ agreeing with what you say.

Bumbley, you are perpetuating a rape myth.

"being vulnerable" because you're drunk and stating that you will reduce your "vulnerability" by staying sober is victim blaming.

"vulnerability" could be drunk or drugged but it could also be old, physically weaker, mentally impaired, disabled, asleep.

Bumbley, you have had a fair few posts deleted here because you are spreading rape myths. Why don't you read back?

I'm surprised you can come back on this thread and nitpick with the strength of argument against your views.