Has anyone successfully lived with and raised kids with P when relationship effectively over?

[lostconfusedwhatnext]

Not sure ours is. If we didn?t have children I would be fantasising about running for the hills. We have 2 dcs, 3 and 1.
I am the breadwinner, DP looks after them. Money is tight (not that tight, but no luxuries), time is tight, everything feels very very tight.
The house is a mess but the dcs are very well looked after.

DP and I seem to have nothing to say to each other and sleep separately (he snores, I am always shattered and need sleep).
He cooks for the dcs before I get back and they eat without me and don?t leave anything for me. I did a mixed wash at the weekend and left the clothes drying on the clothes horse, he put away everything that belonged to the dcs and left mine there. I say these things not because I think he should be my domestic servant, but to show how completely separate he sees me. I don?t mind washing and cooking for myself but I would like to feel a little more included, regarded.
Last night we had a classic row where I got annoyed that things I keep trying to keep tidy by not putting in cupboards that the dcs pull things out of, had been put there, been pulled out, and lost. I spend my life tracking down bits of things and everything is still always lost and broken. We don?t have money to replace everything the dcs feel like playing with and losing / breaking bits of. I asked DP about it and he said I was over reacting and I over reacted to him interrupting me (closing me down, I felt) and went a bit mental and he lost it and shouted at me, cried, and flounced off to bed. I feel like I am not allowed to express things I know to be the truth, like I KNOW he put them in the low cupboard, but the convention is that I am supposed to say ?it was probably me and I hesitate to even mention it, but...? and then apologise for saying it. When I do this he just ignores what I have said. When I say (admittedly with some asperity) ?Please could you not put them in that cupboard, because they?ll get lost? he goes MENTAL.

Right now I don?t care if I never see him again. I need free childcare or I can?t support us. But this relationship is another job that I have to do, it tires me out, and I am still bad at it. Is it possible for us to just agree to differ and get on with our lives, in the same house?
If we break up I can?t afford to support the family. Also, it breaks my heart to think I might have to work like this and not even live with my girls. Destroys me. Tears are running down my face thinking about it.

I had to travel for work recently and I felt so guilty about leaving him for 3 nights with the kids alone. He said it was fine. Now I feel like telling him I have to go away for a night and just finding somewhere else to sleep just to get away from the pressure. I have started lying and that?s not like me. I didn?t tell him my work has offered us summer Friday afternoons off, because to get them you have to work 4 extra hours in the week and if I have to leave at 6.30 am rather than 7.30, in exchange for coming back to the house on Friday afternoons and having to hit the ground running with dinner, laundry, etc, then I think I will just break. I really will. I am so tired. I can?t believe I am saying this, but I am choosing to stay at work on Friday afternoons because I am too tired to get up an hour earlier.
I miss my dcs terribly and I am failing them.

Thanks Mrspepperpotty. thanks again for your lovely long thoughtful post before, too.
and thanks to everyone else.

Good luck OP.

Have you told him what you said here about how great he is with the DCs and how happy they look?

sook well this has all changed now: he actually said it.
I said I need some time at home this weekend to go through the girls'oys and clothes and general belongings and sort things out. he said: no you don't. I said, yes I do, it is very stressful that I can't go out with dd1 (which I was trying to do) without hunting for hours for one of her many hair brushes. He said: her hair is fine. Then he said:

"Go back to work. I prefer it when you are at work. I hate it when you are here and don't look forward to weekends and holidays"

So it's over. I thought he was thinking that, and then he said it. It doesn't matter what I want, does it? He wants me out.

I'm not working for him on those terms. I've been out for a drive and have been wondering:

do we both get smaller places and try to make it work with us both working part time and swapping around the childcare?
Do I get a smaller place and try to make it work with paid childcare which he has to work to contribute towards?

I'm sad and angry. very wobbly knees, memories keep coming back of when things were alright or when I thought things could be alright and poleaxing me

somehow I know he thinks it is all my fault. how is it my fault? All I did was work as hard as I could. wasn't hard enough though

Oh lostconfusedwhatnext, I'm so so sorry to hear this.

So he said "Go back to work. I prefer it when you are at work. I hate it when you are here". Is there any chance he said this in the heat of the moment and doesn't mean it's over? Talk to him. Does he want for you both to work on the relationship? Do you want to??

I don't know. I am so confused.

When I was on a work trip I spent more off-time than usual with work colleagues (usually I have to dash away obviously) and a few comments dropped over the few days really stayed with me. They really respect me. It was kind of astonishing to me. Then I realised that dp doesn't respect me at all. He doesn't hear most of the things I say. When I try to get things right at home he treats me like an idiot. When I differ from him about what to do about something he ploughs on and does it his way and I have to put up with it and if I don't I am being pointlessly inflammatory "again".

I remember when dd1 was tiny and I had done a wash with her clothes and his clothes and my pyjamas and there were coins in the drum. he never empties his pockets properly, he says he does but he doesn't. I was so exhausted I knelt down and begged him to stop leaving money in his pockets when clothes go in the wash because we were spending a fortune on fixing the washing machine and every time it was a wait of a few days while the pukey baby clothes built up. He was furious with me for suggesting that they were his coins. I pointed at the babygros and pjs on the line and asked if he thought they were dd's or perhaps I keep change in my pyjamas. he still refused to believe he could make a mistake.

I am sick to death of him ignoring me and belittling me. I want it to work but I want to feel at home, i want to spend more time with my girls, I want to be able to influence more at home (ie it not to be a shithole) and I want to feel valued and respected. can i make those things happen? how?

I don't know. I am so confused.

When I was on a work trip I spent more off-time than usual with work colleagues (usually I have to dash away obviously) and a few comments dropped over the few days really stayed with me. They really respect me. It was kind of astonishing to me. Then I realised that dp doesn't respect me at all. He doesn't hear most of the things I say. When I try to get things right at home he treats me like an idiot. When I differ from him about what to do about something he ploughs on and does it his way and I have to put up with it and if I don't I am being pointlessly inflammatory "again".

I remember when dd1 was tiny and I had done a wash with her clothes and his clothes and my pyjamas and there were coins in the drum. he never empties his pockets properly, he says he does but he doesn't. I was so exhausted I knelt down and begged him to stop leaving money in his pockets when clothes go in the wash because we were spending a fortune on fixing the washing machine and every time it was a wait of a few days while the pukey baby clothes built up. He was furious with me for suggesting that they were his coins. I pointed at the babygros and pjs on the line and asked if he thought they were dd's or perhaps I keep change in my pyjamas. he still refused to believe he could make a mistake.

I am sick to death of him ignoring me and belittling me. I want it to work but I want to feel at home, i want to spend more time with my girls, I want to be able to influence more at home (ie it not to be a shithole) and I want to feel valued and respected. can i make those things happen? how?

Sorry didn't mean to send that twice. shut the laptop in a hurry and something happened.

He just came in and said "sorry I said that."
I said "ok. but we have to do things differently, we need another arrangement about work because I can't do this any more"
he made an exasperated gesture with his hands and walked off
I said "where are you going" he said "downstairs"

so he thinks "off she goes, what rubbish" that's all he ever thinks
I spent most of last week crying in the office, tissues up in my face all day telling people I have allergies. things do have to change, he can't just flap his arms and make it all go away

a visitor is coming soon, I will be slapping make up all over my blotchy face again like I did 5 times a day all last week my skin is all sore from crying and having foundation rubbed over the blotches

i wish i had someone to talk to
the visitor is his sister so i can't talk to her

if she says "how is work" I will say "I find it really hard and I think we need to change things somehow" and see whether he says "oh I'm sure it will be fine really"

Hi My ships sahd, and I am only earner. You're story could be ours, it is just v hard either way if you work or are the sahp. My dh is not a great Communicator and I had a tactic of biting my tongue rather than having a row. To cut a long story short I ended up having a stress induced heart attack. (not just because of home I hasten to add). Anyway to cut a long story short it has forced dh and into talk and rethink how we run our lives, we make more time for us and family time. I am more chilled about household tidiness (honest) and he tries his v best to keep to a bit of a hwk rota (I now think it is entirely beyond him interestingly our ds behaviour has improved too, I think he picked up tension.

Sorry my typing went awry on bits of that! When dh and I did talk iafter I was I'll he told me he felt bad and helpless that he could see how pressurised I was and unhappy but couldn't see how he could help.

I discussed with 2 girlfriend whose dh are also sahd. They absolutely recognised the situation (not sure that helps but it was helpful for me to know I am not alone) my bf said words to the following effect, which I may get flamed for by others bu they helped me, so her words of wisdom "if you choose a different life I.e sahd and you work you have to accept that however kind, caring, laid back your dh is and you are and however you do not give a shit about what "normal" family life is you have been soaked in a society that has certain expectations of men and women's roles, despite many years of equality. So however much his parents expected him to do chores (my dh had to do washing and cleaning from a young age) and your parents supported you to achieve in career terms (mine did) you will still yearn at some level to be with your kids more and he will have some expectation of earning. Also men just can't cope in the way women can and you will still have to organise your family and home. "

I am now waiting for flame throwers!!

I can pick apart her comment but once I thought about it and "forgave" myself and dh a bit, it all seemed simpler. I started a conversation about how we ran our family (rather than either I am pissed off, or you are not doing it right). We then had a heartfelt chat about both of us and us together and us as a family. There were tears on both our part, partly about some of the crap that's happened this year. We agreed how we were going to move forward - me stopping working or us swapping some works and I am sahm is not an option- the truth is I have to keep us I track but it's not difficult.

Home is calmer, I don't feel like a visitor anymore and dh and I are getting on great.

Hope this helps

OK, that is positive if he apologised for his comment, but you two REALLY need to talk. I still believe (from what you have said) that this relationship may be salvageable, but only if you start communicating. You need to sit down and have an honest discussion (tonight?). Try not to drag up past incidents (eg the coins in the washing machine). Try not to make it into a competition of who is working hardest and feeling most tired. The reality is you are BOTH working hard and feeling tired. Instead, have a constructive discussion along the lines of 'this isn't working. Both of us are unhappy. Can we think of strategies that would make us feel happier? Are there small changes we could make that would help us on a day to day basis?'

I thought things like that before Mrspepperpottybut sometimes i really think it doesn't matter what noises I make with my mouth, he absolutely does not listen to me.
For years I have been trying to keep my chocolate out of the fridge and it always ends up back in there! What hope have I of rebuilding a family life that doesn't send me mental that goes against what he wants, what society wants? Given that he has NOTHING to lose with the chocolate, and still won't let me keep it in the cupboard!
OK that is defeatist, no point thinking along those lines

heartstart, that is all very interesting. I wish I had some girlfriends doing this too. I hope you are well now.

I actually don't mind the way he does things, and the way they don't come up to my standards (to put it bluntly) as I agree with what mrspepperpotty said before (I have felt this sub-verbally before myself in fact): he might not be doing as much on the surface, but if he can do it without going mental then it's working, so let him do it his way. What I mind is that he gives me no respect and won't listen to me and has a million tactics of making out I am mad or an idiot whenever I try to talk about anything I don't like.

Horribly I had a realisation that he is like my sister. He is an oldest sibling of a sister the same age as me. My sister used to control everything by discounting my preferences (we shared a room) - just ignoring that there was another person who might want things different. When, 1% of the time, the difference was so important to me that I actually forced the issue, she presented the matter (and I think believed it was this way) as me creating conflict, being unnecessarily stroppy, etc, because of course the way she saw it there was nothing at all wrong with the other 99% of the time. My parents bought this. (oddly my father kind of joked about this very recently, kind of apologising for being manipulated by her - which meant a lot to me although it was presented as a joke) So they were always on my case.

anyway this is what he is doing - just getting on with things as if nobody has raised any issues - and I have to raise them so forcefully for any recognition that I can then be regarded as "badly behaved"

It sounds like he would be happier working. If he were, do you think he wouldn't earn enough to cover a housekeeper/nanny type of person's salary?

In any case, I think you should bring home a bottle of wine tonight, crack it open after DC go to bed, and just talk to him. Ask him if he would be happier working, talk about how that would work out. Tell him you love him & appreciate him (SAHParents need to hear those sentences). See what he says.

This apathy can't continue. You need to fix this, at least temporarily, because if you were to divorce tomorrow, he would get custody of the DC (as primary carer) and you would still have to pay for everything.

What a mix up.

My DCs are grown up and I would love to have the time when they were teeny back so I can cuddle and be more patient with them than I was then. I was a busy stressed SAHM with a nonhelpful DH. But with hindsight those years are so so brief. Also I was v angry and upset with DH on occasions.

You and DH seem to be torn at the situation you are in but, let's face it, it will change in no time. Eldest will be off to nursery, pre school or something, by then DD2 will be running about and maybe happy to go to a childminder and both DH and your life will be v different - working/ part time working/ at home full time, Working with live in au pair? So I hope you can hang in there without getting too desperate.

I think you might be depressed you sound so hopeless, although I admit that DH is partly to blame, but perhaps see your GP to see what they have to say. And the situation you are in is much worse because you are reliving all the unfairness and stress you got from your DSis. Is there someone you could talk all this through with which might then make it easier to deal with DH and reach a compromise.

yes I am depressed, no I can't get any help with it
it's all about money, there a million ways to do this but my salary won't cover them and p's earning potential is less
feeling terrible in this sunshine thinking how magic it was when dd2 was tiny last year and I was so relieved after the pregnancy and birth. almost regretting the whole thing now. I can't imagine enjoying anything ever again. feel so shit
i can't even think about suicide i couldn't do that to those little girls

have to stay here till dec as that is the lease,

feeling so low`really hollow and catatonic

Lost - thanks I am fine now, well at least as long as I keep taking the tablets!

What I am going to say now will sound harsh, but bear in mind the way my bf spoke to me above.

The most important things is your dcs, what will you do to make sure they have the best life they can. I make no judgement as to what that life is, but you need to take control of it, it will feel difficult and hard but step by step you can make it. You may need to go to your Gps for anti-depressants or to access counselling

Good luck and lots of love....... Remember one step at a time

yes heartstart you are right but I don't know what the right thing is
I keep trying and trying to do the right thing but I am obviously doing it wrong. now I am wondering whether we just need to split up

another row just now I didn't finish a single sentence without being interrupted. so much for that. I just walked off because I am sick of not being allowed to talk, or being treated as an idiot if I do begin to say anything, and interrupted, and shouted at by someone who is accusing me of causing scenes

he says he wants us to go to counselling. I think that is a good idea for other poeple in theory but right now I don't see what good it would do for me to go on the internet, look up where it is, phone them up, find there is a 24 week waiting list and it costs £40, and then start scratching our heads about babysitters, and money, meanwhile get asked every 3 days "I thought you were seeing about counselling," and every time I start to explain "I am, but -" he will zone out and forget what I said

this is fucking miserable basically the problem is we never make up unless I unreservedly apologise and I don't fucking feel like it after being told to "get back to work" and that I am notwanted in my own house

feel so bad now he is really upset but I can't just go and make it all better. i feel like my job is to say I don't matter and everything is fine, but it isnt and every time I resolve to pretend my feelings don't matter things blow up soon enough

i am a nasty piece of work

So one step at a time doesn't mean getting every step right every time and also letting your DH take his own steps too, so if he has suggested counselling and that's what you have thought of too, what's to lose. Frankly what ever the end of this, including you moving out you need to agree what is best for your DCs. Also, cote is right you will not get custody.

thanks heartstart you are right we need to do the counselling
I would like this to work but I feel so tired and sad and hurt and angry that at the moment coming out the other side on my own with the girls feels like it would be a relief. but I think it's just this moment, and i have no way of how to manage anyway, it is an unworkable fantasy of me and them in a bright little 2 bed flat with magical childcare and rent solutions. and you are right I wouldn't just be able to walk off with them.

If the family fund cannot support a seperation right now, then I think the only solution is talking, talking, talking. While you are exhausted and have no benefits for all your work. He is loosing self confidence and is suffering the boredom of being at home full time with 2 toddlers. It is hard.

I remember I resented my husband his quiet commute to work time, and his lunches with his work buddies. I genuinely thought a prison sentence would have been easier (at times).

It is a shock that normal life can be so, so difficult.

Is there any possibility that he could get a few hours work and the girls could go into creche for a few hours. It might break the tension a little if you and your partner were living a similar lifestyle. I find when we are both in work, my husband does more around the house, as he accepts fully it should be 50/50, but when I was at home, he expected to come in and relax. (despite the fact that I too had worked a full day.) While we really don't have much financial gain by us both being in work, there is less tension, less reason to be obliged to appreciate the input of the other.

CoteDAzur, what do you mean "this apathy"?