How do I forgive & forget?

[DoingItForMyself]

I've been married to DH for 13 years, we have 3 lovely DCs but our relationship has hit rock-bottom.

My self-esteem is at ground level and I blame him at least partly for that, as he has very little emotional intelligence and can be detached cold and selfish at times.

Of course his version of events is very different - I am volatile, over-emotional and needy. He will insist that whatever he has said or done to make me feel unloved or useless is just my opinion and I have 'taken remarks the wrong way' or 'out-of-context' or exaggerated what he actually said.

The up-shot is, I either have to leave him or accept the part I have played in our appalling marriage and try to move on together. How can I forget the words that ring in my ears and the ugly picture of myself I see when I look at myself through his eyes?

I have to start collecting children in a short while so if I don't answer straight away I apologise x

Why do you think you should forgive and forget?

He has no remorse, you can't/don't 'forgive' someone with no remorose and someone who won't take responsibility for their own behaviour. He's blaming everything on you and his philosophy is you either accept all the blame and put up with his crap or what?

So, by "forgive and forget" you mean "put up and shut up?"
Do you want to do that?

Relationships require everyone to give a little, accept faults, take responsibility, make changes etc. Everyone's opinion is equally valid and one partner's opinion doesn't trump the other. If your opinions on something as fundamental as each other's characters are streets apart and neither of you are willing to compromise then you are incompatible.

If you believe that being around him affects your self-esteem you could always try a trial separation. It's not exactly 'leaving'... just giving everyone an opportunity to see if they actually do function better together or apart.

What kind of comments is he making on a regular basis? what does he do to show his selfishness?

I know a lot of the comments are pretty minor, but for example, today DS1 is moaning that there's nothing nice to eat for an after school snack.

Last time I bought cinnamon buns (his fave) DH complained about me buying too much rubbish and letting the kids eat crap.

Today he advised DS to 'take it up with mummy' implying that its my responsibility to buy DS things he likes, but when I do, I'm wrong.

He has made 'jokey' comments about the way I look or that I used to be a man etc. I have laughed along with these comments and now when I say that they hurt my feelings he dismisses it at I was ok about it at the time so how should he know that he shouldn't have said it?

In isolation they are minor things, poor taste jokes, snide remarks etc. Some couples thrive on banter. But when a partner is deliberately setting out to hurt the other's feelings by carrying on even though they've been asked to stop, I think there's a fundamental problem. My benchmark for this is always if a stranger came up to you in the street and said the same things or behaved the same way how would you react?.... If a stranger told me I looked like a man I wouldn't find it funny in the slightest.

He's blaming everything on you and his philosophy is you either accept all the blame and put up with his crap or what Scarlet

I suppose I'm saying its all his fault for making me feel bad about myself, doubting every decision I make because I have to think what he will say about it.

He's quite happy to trundle along pretending its all ok. Its me who's given the ultimatum. Stop being an arse or leave.

I just need to know how to stop bringing the baggage from the last 10-12 years up every time we argue.

HappyHissy - as a recent example, the kids did a little cake sale in the garden this week for friends and neighbours. I helped them buy ingredients, make cakes, print posters etc. DH stayed inside watching the Grand Prix. He wasn't expected or asked to join in - I accept that its not his thing.

At the end of the day, the DCs learned a bit about customer service, money, baking, marketing etc and had pulled together to work as a team. I was really proud of them.

They asked if they could do it again next week and DH said no, it had taken over 'our' entire weekend. I just wish I had a husband who would either join in (never gonna happen) or at least say 'well done kids you did a great job! And well done DoingIt for being a lovely mum"

It's not baggage from 10 - 12 years, it's current stuff that's annoying you. You can't 'forgive and forget' when nothing changes and the behaviour carries on the same way. You'd like him to be an encouraging supportive type that participates enthusiastically in family life but that's not what you've got. He's happy to trundle along because he's happy enough and there are no serious consequences to his actions. Stick to your ultimatum and follow through...

I am NOT liking the sound of this fella... i have to say. I'm going to start to hear bells in a minute and see red flags aren't I?

this IS one of those threads isn't it?

Doingit I lived with a soulless man like this, it was so wearing, it was exhausting.

what would happen if you were to tell him off for being such a miserable git?

You can't change your OH, you can only change the way you think / act / respond to him.

He is behaving like an arse. What can you do to open up communication channels in a new way? It sounds like you have both fallen into time worn patterns of behaviour. Why did you not invite him to help with the cake sale at the weekend? You could have asked for his help and involved him. Instead, you say in a passive way that he wasn't expected or asked to join in - why? Is it really not his thing to help his children? As he didn't help, he couldn't share in any of the pride & consequently he doesn't want it to take place again. How on earth would he know you were a lovely mum for doing it? He was inside watching the Grand Prix!

If you want to save the relationship, you have to think if he is worth it & then you have to make an effort to change your patterns of behaviour to illicit a different reaction from him.

The next time that penis attachment suggests that you used to be a man, I suggest you respond with 'Yes. And apparently you did too'.

Anyone else appreciating the irony of someone complaining about a cake sale "taking up the whole weekend" when he's sat on his arse watching the Grand Prix.
Who's going to have gained the most from their weekend activities I wonder?

HappyHissy - I hope this isn't one of those threads! I cringe when I read what some people put up with - there has never been any threat or violence, no swearing or actual nastiness. Just indifference really

I think that's what makes it harder in a way, as whatever has been said has been thoughtless, misconstrued or generally not intended to upset me (apparently) but it still sticks in my mind and colours my view of myself and of him. If he genuinely doesn't want to upset me and is just really bad at being loving and supportive I can try and help him to be better, but only if I can get over the things that have led us here.

I suppose what I'm asking for is a way to try and not be upset by things that happened a long time ago.

The question is: Are you happy?

if the answer is NO, then you need to either get it sorted out, or make a decision to live better outside the relationship.

What does living with this man give you?

are there any large issues that happened a long time ago, or is this just consistently crappy behaviour over time.

neither is acceptable, you were not put on this earth to suffer.

You didn't say what would happen if you stood up and said Oy, pack in the dodgy comments H, that's not fair/nice/acceptable.

Please imagine for a moment standing up for yourself, tell me what the thought of doing that makes you feel?

Sounds like you're married to XH's twin brother. Believe me, putting another decade in at the coalface, like I did, won't do you any favours. Against all the evidence I kept believing I would eventually get through to him, that I would learn how not to upset him (impossible, he'd manufacture offence out of nothing) and that he would pick up some emotional intelligence. Bloody waste of 25 good years that was.

There are worse life events than divorce.

Hissy, if I say anything then I am causing an argument or 'getting at him' or making something out of nothing or dragging up things from the past which should be forgotten.

I'm not afraid to call him up on this behaviour, I'm just worn down by it and I know it makes no difference because it will happen again, but in a different guise (i.e. he won't mention the specific thing again, such as looking like a particularly grotesque TV character, because I said it was unreasonable, but he will go on to make another hurtful comment another time about me sleeping too much or not wanting sex etc, which I haven't specifically warned him not to say.)

He then says it wasn't meant as an insult, that he can't say anything right so maybe its better not to speak at all, making me feel that I have to 'put up & shut up' as Clam says.

As for major things - its nothing big, just a series of tiny thoughtless acts that have accumulated over time, each one probably magnified by being part of a bigger picture.

I've referred to it as 'death by a thousand paper cuts' before - in isolation each thing is minor, but when they come one after another after another and my every thought, every action is governed by what 'he' will think, it becomes so hard to even know where I start and he stops. He'll say that I don't need to do that because he wouldn't have cared about x y or z, but I am so conditioned to thinking 'how do I avoid annoying him' that it is second nature to me now. Sadly he doesn't reciprocate.

Annie I know that divorce is definitely an option, but I feel that I should be trying everything I can to make things work, just in case there is a chance that I am making mountains out of molehills and he is genuinely unaware of the impact he has on me.

I know I expect a lot from a husband, but he feels that by being in the house sometimes (he rarely goes out after work etc) and by being the main earner he is doing his bit. He is quite shy and awkward around people he doesn't know well and I suppose I don't even try to involve him when I know he will be uncomfortable, but I just wish he could be more positive and supportive rather than undermining my parenting decisions.

Well, in fairness he came home from work yesterday at 3pm, made a cuppa and actually sat in the kitchen with me and 2 of the DCs to drink it instead of going into the study on his own.

He then said he fancied going for a bike ride. I asked "on your own or with everyone?" and he said all of us! So there was a bit of resistance from the DCs who were tired after school and just wanted to watch TV, which I thought would kill the idea totally, but we persevered and in the end all had a lovely afternoon cycling to a really nice park.

Baby steps, but it shows he is capable when he tries.

DoingIt, you seriously need to change your tactics. You say that you call him up on his behaviour, but you are worn down by doing that & it doesn't make a difference. So he is acting like an arse, but your strategies for dealing with it aren't working.
It does sound as though he wants to be included, from what you describe yesterday. Did you tell him in the evening how much you enjoyed yourself with him & the DCs in the afternoon? You don't have to thank him, but it is good to tell him how it made you feel - happy & like a family. Sometimes men don't pick up on the body language & vibe in the same way a woman would and they need your feelings spelt out for them.

I did say thank you for suggesting we all go out together, that it was really nice. The DCs all said they had a great time and even DS1 who had moaned that he didn't want to go said "I take it back, parks are actually fun!"

I thought it was going to go wrong when the DCs were saying they didn't want to go, then I started filling up water bottles and they asked if they could take snacks and DH got really cross, saying "we don't need to take a snack, its just a bloody bike ride" but in the end a good time was had by all, despite a wobbly start!

His biggest problem seems to be control. If he suggests something then its ok, but if I suggest it, or the DCs suggest it and he's not ready he freaks out. The bake sale was an example of this - he complained that "the first I'd heard of it was last night" and I told him that was because it was only planned then.

Its as if he needs a weeks notice to be ok with a plan that someone else has made. Its the same with getting a takeaway - if I suggest it he'll say "oh I was thinking we'd have xx tonight and maybe get a takeaway on xxday" just so that he can have the last word. I don't even bother suggesting it. DS asked if we could go out to eat last night and I said we'd go on a night when DH is working late because then I get to make the decision

Post I'm not sure he actually 'wants' to be included - this was his reaction to being told that he needs to participate in family life more.

Given the option he'd have probably rather been out cycling at double the speed on his own or out running, but he knows that he needs to find a balance between work/family/me-time if he's going to be allowed to stay. And like DS1, once he was out with us all I thing he realised that he enjoyed it - it just doesn't occur to him that its something he should do.

When you say I need to change my tactics what can you suggest, as that's what I really need! Is it just about praising when he does something that makes me happy rather than always criticising when he upsets me? I try to do that with the DCs but it never really occurred to me to do 'positive reinforcement' stuff with DH. Makes sense though.

Ok, so if he likes to plan in advance - use that to your advantage. Sit down on Sunday evening & ask him how he sees the week panning out. This appeals to his control freakery & gives you the option to suggest he does his bit. So if he says he'd like a takeaway on Wednesday night, then you can say "fantastic, I'll leave you to order then - I'll get the meals prepared for the other nights, unless there is a night you'd particularly like to do?"

Also, you don't need to thank him for doing things together, that looks weak and as though he deserves thanks - a stronger way to compliment him would be to tell him how great it made you feel to do something together & then think of something noteworthy that he did, like go a good route, or help with a bike or something that you can make a positive comment about that means something very specific.