So you saw the OW... what was she like?

[TwentyMinutes]

I don't really know why I'm posting this. I just cannot believe I've actually seen her.

Blonde, a bit older, two kids same age gap as mine. Lives in a beautiful house in my home town, walked past it thousands of times when I was a kid. Two of my best friends still live on that road. I saw them in her garden as I walked past with them. They have no idea, I must have looked like I'd seen a ghost.

Why why why did I agree to go to the sodding park?! It's just brought it all back.

And the worst thing is... she is very mediocre. Rather boring clothes and I am actually better looking. Ok that's petty but where else can I say it but here?!

Anyone else? What was yours like?

Wow, thing I'm glad things are so black and white in the world you live in. There's not really such thing as good people and bad people unfortunately, just people - most of whom have the capacity to be weak, selfish, shallow, easily led, susceptible to flattery, bored easily and disillusioned with their lives. Maybe to have married the 'wrong' person, or to have felt pressure to get married when they weren't ready/sure, or just to fall out of love with their partners.

That doesn't make someone bad, yes they may behave unfairly but human emotions are a very complex thing, to label people as good, bad, decent, immoral etc is reductive to the point of being meaningless. Sorry if that doesn't fit into your narrow world view, thank god you don't work as a counsellor or anything is all I can say!

ok FWIW (and I am trying to side step this developing bun fight, not fan the flames!) I think everyone here does agree that the wayward spouse is principally the morally corrupt person, and marrying the 'wrong' person doesn't excuse someone from exiting a relationship with kindness, respect and honesty. Waiting to be kicked to the kerb for your infidelity makes you the wrong person in your marriage, and your partner (however ill suited) the wronged party.

The OW obviously has degrees to which they may be complicit. From one extreme (my H's OW for example, had sex with him in my bed at Christmas, knowing I was pregnant, having spent time with my son and I and knowing he was supposed to be spending the holiday with us. She is responsible for knowingly enabling him to be a total prick and yes, deserves to be viewed with some cynicism on the whole 'being a decent person' front. I'm not convinced yet) to the other extreme (a close friend of mine discovered she was the OW after a two year relationship with a 'travelling salesman' and was utterly, utterly devastated and ended it there and then but still lives with the guilt and shame, despite being deceived herself). There are many shades of grey.

Surely venting about how hurt your feel when you have been on the receiving end of your partners (and their 'new partner') selfishness doesn't make you a bad person either! No-one is saying ALL OW are ugly or worthless or evil. Just that their behaviour was ugly, and hurtful. Which makes it hard to see them as beautiful people really.

Agree with that Choco. People who are unfaithful aren't all the same and OW/OM aren't all the same either. Regardless of what anyone is like though, infidelity is wrong and if you know someone is married, all the excuses in the world about low self-esteem, youth, being in love etc. cannot get away from that fact.

IMO ... OW are just as much to blame as P/H ! How any woman can be with a married man is beyond me , knowing how it's going to hurt so many people , especially children ! If you are having problems in a relationship .. Sort them out or separate ... Then shag about if that what your into !!

The ow was younger than me, and used to be quite pretty. If very girl next door looking. No fashion sense whatsoever.

She is now absolutely humongous and has really bad skin and an unfortunate hairstyle. He is still with her. Sucks to be him!

My ex-H is married to the OW. I have to sit and make polite conversation with her at school fetes!!!!
She is an ordinary human being - obviously nothing like as pretty as me - who had to stoop to stealing someone elses's husband!!

I am unfailingly polite in that scary way that posh upper middle class people can be. I dislike both of them - but I have the moral high ground & she is very welcome to my ex!

I still see my exes other woman too. They are now married. I get the feeling she is looking back at that grass that is now much greener!

I messaged two OW in dp case and made my mind up that they were two selfish little mares out for themselves not caring who they hurt in the process, yes dp was equally to blame but they were given an opportunity to apologise for their involvement and didn't, in fact one of them was vile and a complete nutter so in my case at least I feel nothing but contempt for the OW!

AThingInYourLife A decent person would have turned the offer down. And everyone knows that- what, you've never been so in love with someone that you would have done anything? That's what it was. It was, as others have said and I would happily admit, selfish, reckless and mad. It was bad behaviour but not the actions of a fundamentally bad person. I have never cheated on a partner and would never cheat on my husband. I would never start talking about morals or morality because frankly it would be laughable, but I think what my ex did was more or less evil and what I helped him to do was more or less evil. Everyone is capable of being the Other Woman. I had a lot of opinions about morality until I fell in love with someone who didn't have much himself. I am only being honest about my previous life because I made a promise to myself during some therapy post affair that what was most damaging was the lies and that I would never lie about how grim the whole thing was- I'd never laugh it off or shrug or pretend it didn't happen when people talked about affairs. This is what happens sometimes and I am a nice person, I just did some bad things because I got taken in by a scumbag.

I just pray that nothing and no one ever shakes the foundations of your black and white world.

And I absolutely do not want a bunfight. Am ducking out before this gets any bleaker. Back to the original point!

I am definitely better looking than the OW, am more feminine and definitely wear nicer clothes. OW is frumpy and built like a brick shit house BUT she oozes confidence by the bucket load which I'm sure was the appeal.

Yes the OW knew he was married with DC. She was a friend. She certainly went out of her way to get what she wanted. Was one of those who only ever was attracted to married men or men with long term partners. I've since found out that there were plenty of other scorned women in the town where we lived thanks to her. I kind of get the impression that she was desperate for a long term relationship but because she always went with men already in a relationship they mainly saw her as just a shag IYSWIM?

Obviously my ex was the 'one' as they've been married for 5 years and have 2 DC. It's just a shame that they had to put me and our 2DC through so much pain at the time. They did do me a favour though as I've been married for nearly 5 years to my lovely DH and we have another DC together.

I do agree that not all OW's are the same. I was inadvertantly one once after exH and I had split up. I met a guy who seemed really nice and I really liked him. I was telling a friend about this guy I'd been seeing when she said he sounded like a guy she knew who had a pregnant girlfriend. I was absolutely mortified. I've never told anyone in RL (except friend who outed him).

you women: you judge each other so much by looks!

i have had affairs, it's not about whether or not the OW is better looking than the DW. It's much more complicated.

(well, perhaps for some men it is about looks, but if your DH chose his OW for her looks, he probably chose his DW for the same criteria)

Mrbovary, no one gives a tiny shit why YOU cheat on your wife. Hth.

The OW in my case was slimmer than me, although not exactly model like, she has a big butt and is 4 yrs older, I guess she is attractive but not any better looking than I am I suppose. I say was slimmer as I've since lost 5 stone. Even ex commented my bum is smaller ( why is he even looking!!!)
They are still together and now engaged after a year! Idiots deserve each other

Erm, bit rude to MrB there, I actually AM interested in his thoughts. Not very often you get into the mind of an adulterer. Especially male. And I agree it's not always about looks either.

Sometimes men leave their wives because they find their ideal partner, their soulmate even (I don't believe in soulmates by the way, but it's the only way I can word it to get my view across). They don't leave their wives just because a prettier woman comes along. Well, some do. But it's not that simple. Not all men leave their wives and then think "shit, what have I done?" Some think they have ended up with the person they should be with...not saying that's right and that the shit they cause along the way is right either. But it's not black and white.

My STBX left because the OW gave him attention while he considered that I gave too much attention to our DD7

I still did give him attention - just obviously not as much .. but then she's got no kids

I won't mention what she looks like as I got flamed the last time when I started a thread about it

Oooh you sound lovely mrbovary.

What I fiind hilarious is the complete lack of apparent irony detected in MrBovary's post.

A condescending, patronising twit boasting admitting to having had an affair but the reasons are 'complicated'! Yes, I totally agree MrB I'm sure you are the proverbial still waters that run deep. Were you misunderstood? Dear oh dear, they get better. You men eh?!

Excuse me while I recover from my faint - I've just noticed my grass is green.

ugh MrBovary's mind sounds like a very ugly place to crawl into

The thing is, he is having affairs with somebody, isn't he ?

if it's not all in his tiny imagination, of course

Diana/Camilla, Cheryl Cole/some slapper(s), Coleen Rooney/an old prostitute. Its not about looks there is it?

My stbx is with OW 23 years younger than me. She is still not better looking than me now never mind when I was 29. Whoever said up the thread about stroking egos got it spot on. I still cant believe he fancies her I am therefore supremely confident it wont last

I don't want to defend MrBovary (I see what he did there), but he makes a fairly valid point.

There is an element of hypocrisy to the argument that runs "how could my DH be so silly and shallow going off with OW? I'm so much better looking"

believeinpink thank you. But alas Mumsnet isn't really the place where you'll often hear the thoughts of man who has had / is having an affair -- a man in that position will tend to get roundly shouted down under a hail of name calling (as above!), and I understand that.

But men aren't so very different from women, you know, and their reasons no doubt aren't so very different as those of the women I see on MN from time to time who have had (or are having, or are considering) an affair, and are brave enough to explain here, and to be fair are generally treated sympathetically.

Perhaps for some men it IS simply about having sex with someone better looking, but then perhaps for some women it is as well (for instance for bluesue26 it is all about looks, she says " if I was gonna cheat and throw my life down the pan the guy would have to be an absolute knockout". Fair enough, blue sue, we all know where you stand. I hope for your DH's sake he is a knockout himself, and you didn't 'settle')

but most people - I believe - don't actually choose their lovers, or spouses, for looks alone, and those that do are disappointed.

marriages are not simple. affairs are not simple. As dictionarydiva says RL is not so black and white as MN likes to paint it. Plenty of surveys suggest that 30 or 405 of married people have had affairs, men and women. They can't all be automatically completely evil can they?

ask your "darling" wife, MrB

I was considered the OW although I'm not sure I truly was. DP and I were friends (he was married and I was separated) we would text each other quite a lot, but really just about music (both in bands, both mad about same style of music) we NEVER text each other anything that I would not show his wife.

This was over a month maybe, met for a drink before a gig (again not a date, totally innocent) and we both noticed just how completely attracted to each other we were. Next day he left his wife. We got together a month later and that was 18 months ago, we are now planning our wedding and ttc.

We never touched, kissed or even told each other how we felt until AFTER he left his wife. To some this was probably an EA but we are so totally in love and beyond happy together now.

I feel guilty becuase he had a wife and a DD but I never set out to hurt anyone, I never told him how I felt until a few weeks after he had left his wife and he admits he would have left anyway.

So flame me if you want but sometimes you fall in love and there is no great way to go about it. Love quite often exists in the grey area

I couldn't ever be OW as I would not be interested in sharing my man with anyone else. I just wouldn't be desperate enough to go after someone who was with someone else.. Also I find the idea of it disgusting... In my experience many OW just couldn't give a fuck about who gets hurt by their actions. Actually, how could you be OW if you possessed any degree of decency? Genuinely, I would love to know how they could justify it to themselves? Do women genuinely buy into the 'my wife doesn't understand me linea.

Also, I may well get a flaming for this but IMO the 'you can't chose wh you fall in love with' argument is a pile of crap peddled by selfish, entitled people to allow them to abdicate responsibility.