So you saw the OW... what was she like?

[TwentyMinutes]

I don't really know why I'm posting this. I just cannot believe I've actually seen her.

Blonde, a bit older, two kids same age gap as mine. Lives in a beautiful house in my home town, walked past it thousands of times when I was a kid. Two of my best friends still live on that road. I saw them in her garden as I walked past with them. They have no idea, I must have looked like I'd seen a ghost.

Why why why did I agree to go to the sodding park?! It's just brought it all back.

And the worst thing is... she is very mediocre. Rather boring clothes and I am actually better looking. Ok that's petty but where else can I say it but here?!

Anyone else? What was yours like?

Hmm...I had lots of OW's (IYSWIM) but was clueless at the time. DH worked away a lot, so much easier to hide stuff, plus he told them he was divorced so technically they didn't realise they were the OW (in fact he convinced one poor deluded soul that although I had; travelled to join him during the summer holiday with our 7 year old DD; shared the same room and bed for a month; spent most of that together when he wasn't working...that yes, we were divorced but hadn't told DD and were 'pretending' for her sake to be together, and could she stay away for DD's sake whilst still being available for swift bunk ups when he could get a minute away)...

One was a really lovely dancer, much younger than me, fabulous looking, very bendy (!) but as thick as two short planks, bless her. Quite liked her, really. And she was lovely to DD. Another was a total cow, a brassy, tarty, desperate for success cabaret singer. They worked together, we (DH and I) went to see her perform and she was very inappropriately flirty and in my face. Am so glad to have never heard of her rise to fame and can have a giggle that she is probably still single, childless, and performing in working men's clubs.

But really, 10 years down the line I am so glad to be rid of him I'd happily kiss every one of the daft mares deluded souls!

The thing is, just becase you were like that Diva, it doesn't mean every OW is a fundamentally nice woman who got duped by the man she loved. We shouldn't see women as one-dimensional, just as men aren't either. There are essentially kind men and women who make a once-in-a-lifetime mistake and there are serial philanderers and all the extremes in between. And I do agree with the poster who said that most people having affairs take what's offered and aren't necessarily discerning in their 'choice', whereas when they were younger and more attractive, had more choice of partners and there wasn't the additional lure of the illicit that apparently makes even people like John Major and Edwina Currie attractive (WTF? But I digress ) then the choice they made then was more about you as an individual.

Sorry if I've provided a brain-bleaching image. I'll get my coat

I acquired a phone number for an "OW'. Have been tempted to text thanking her for her part in waking up and getting the hell out of the marriage. Mind she wasn't a proper OW as he 'didn't even get to feel her tits'. Sorry I've put that up many times before. One of my fave (black humour) quotes and a pivotal point in helping me decide my plans for the future. I didn't actually take a lot of notice of this woman, or any of the others. He was really flattered that anyone was giving him any attention....me? oh I didn't count. I doted on him (more fool me) but I've got cellulite and bushy eye-brows!!

I think the different thing is true- I remember Philanderer saying "you two are just chalk and cheese" and thinking that was weird.... How could he like chalk and cheese?! But that's exactly it isn't it? Didn't get that at the time.

And can I just say HURRAH for all the shitty men that have been cast aside and all the terrible relationships that have been left. We all deserve better than that.

This happens a lot to pregnant women it seems. I was pg as well, and seriously ill. I wasn't myself.

This makes me laugh: my ExH and OW double-dated with a friend and his OW, possibly because not many other people wanted to socialise with them. Both reported back to their ex-wives (er, that's me, and I am in contact with his exwife) that the other's 'new woman' wasn't a patch on the woman they married in looks, or, in personality.

Have never met the OW but have seen a photo: long dark hair, doughy of face and body but with pointy features within it. Shallow of me, I know, but it made me feel a lot better, as in the early days I automatically assumed he had gone for 'better' and I felt unattractive. Knowing he hadn't, made me realise it was all about him and if it wasn't her, it would have been someone else. She, as a personality type, is/was needy & dysfunctional and invites men to rescue her from her H, passive aggressive and a series of relationships with married men under her belt. With the mish-mash of exH's faults I concluded they were very welcome to each other!

I've been a short term ow as well, for a while when i was 15 and a while when i was 20. The one when i was 15 i was most definitely taken advantage of (guy was 12 years older).

Why did i do it? Low self esteem, difficulties at home and was looking for escape, victim of sexual abuse so thought my worth was within sex and actually didn't know i could say no so just drifted into it.

Apart from that i don't know. I don't think i really thought about it a huge amount as i was caught up with my own stuff.

Would never ever do it again in a million years.

Everyone says the OW in my case looks like a bloke! I do actually agree, she is very tall, broad and straight up and down, no hip shape iyswim. She is also very loud and laughs like a bloke. Squared of chin and not pretty so really its a good job she has a fair bust to make her look slightly feminine! She lives in combats as well which doesnt help her! But he left me for her so she must have some good attributes
Im quite pleased I am more attractive even if I am the size of a baby elephant right now, it does make me internally smile when it is commented on.
I did react in a similar fashion actually, it really shook me even though I knew her. It makes it real in a much different manner than any admissions

STBXH's OW is the absolute spit of me. Height, size, colouring, shape of face, looks. Oh, but 12 years younger.

LC totally get your point (I really do)
But - In a cathartic environment voicing the fact that the OW was not attractive/less attractive/different looking actually afforded a bit of 'smugness' is fine by me!
I don't see anything that is a commentary on the rights of beautiful people.
I see 1) His betrayal made me feel worthless - at least if the OW was stunning/a genius/rich there are immediate reasons to hand thus avoiding the torturous wrangling with the fact that he ditched for more than 'just sex with a looker'.
2) His comment or actions previously made me believe I was unattractive - striking at your self-image or capitalising on your insecurities is common and damaging - an 'ugly' OW can actually help because you are objectively not what he said you were. It can strengthen the fact that he left Red Rum for a seaside Donkey ride (not meant in the objectifying way it reads)
3) It just further proves that fact he really is a pathetic, insecure wee knobber. There have been mentions of OW that are thick as a London fog, have the Personality of a demented weasel or the general appeal of pea soup the common denominator being they rolled over and made him feel like a good man - one he can't replicate by actually being a good man.
It's good to get things off your chest, talk it out and be able to let all those feelings he dumped on you dissipate into the ether little by little.

If anyone said she is an ugly arsehole and therefore deserves to live in misery/should never be touched by a single man/woman then that would be a wrong of the highest order.

Or also the converse

I am pretty I deserve to be happy because I've got a perfect nose/nice tits/an amazing fanjo.

Because that also implies 'I can be as much of a selfish bumhole as I want because I'm great to look at'. This isn't really the case here? Not that I can see.

lifechanger That was absolutely not my intention here.

The worst bit of seeing her, and seeing she was just ordinary looking (i.e. not drop-dead gorgeous) was that it meant my generally shallow DH must have really liked her. She must have made him laugh, kept him interested, been fun to be with. It was a friendship not just a few shags with a vacuous-but-fit-and-willing airhead.

OF COURSE I don't think beautiful people have any more right to happiness!

Tis a significant day today, 22 years since the OW and H left the house, me and my child. I knew her really well, she was my best friend. BUT HEYHO.....I had a one night stand (only one ever in my whole life) with a lovely man and now he's my DH!

That's great stickyj! But if it was a one nighter... how is he now your DH??

Huge. Amusingly I was accidentally inadvertently provided with a rather large (shabby) outfit of hers which I took great joy in returning to XH.

I think if you can't criticise the OW here for looks or otherwise then where can you? It's all very well being worthy and right-on about not slagging off another persons appearance but sometimes it's the only comfort you've got in these situations. In what must be a most painful situation I don't think anyone should have to apologise for giving the OW a bit of a drubbing.

Not giving a fuck about the wife of the man you are fucking because you are "so much in love" doesn't make you a fundamentally nice person. It makes you a horrible selfish cunt.

Dictionary I agree with you in some part.
I know 'my' OW got bowled over by H - he is v handsome, the new boss, all that shite. Narcissists are v overwhelming at the beginning with all that idealisation, heady stuff.

Also, my low boundaries when I was your age means that I too could have been an OW and I would have gone along with a man's attentions....

But: even idiots such as my young self outlined above have personal choice and bear responsibility. The fact that OWs get screwed over, used and humiliated as 'my' poor OW did (how she hates her boss now, who as narcs do has gone from strength to strength) is but a natural consequence of the poor choices THEY MADE.

How does John Prescott refer to the secretary who for two years was his feverish fantasy? 'That woman'. Dismissed and discarded, because they were never loved for who they really are, it is all a fantasy. That is what happens to 97% of OW...

We MUST teach our daughters, we really must. Never, ever EVER listen to a man's blandishments, and NEVER help betray other women and children.

YOU ARE BEING USED in a situation THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU.

Not nice AThing have you never been stupid and insebsitive in your whole entire life? Well bully for you. All she was saying is that most OW are not actively trying to ruin a life, just being stupid and thoughtless.

Stupid, thoughtless and knowingly, uncaringly causing enormous pain to another person = not a very nice person

We owe complete strangers more than that.

Ever heard the phrase "there's no such thing as an honest mark"?

The same applies to an OW/OM who knows they are shagging someone who is married.

You defraud people by appealing to their greed, and their willingness to do immoral things that hurt other people if it suits them. That makes them complicit in what they (stupidly) think the scam is.

Known you are involved in an affair puts you in the same moral position - you can whinge all you want about how you were tricked and lied to, but you bought into lies and hurting other people when it suited you, so your claims of being the victim ring entirely hollow.

A decent person would have turned the offer down.

And everyone knows that.

A decent person would have turned the offer down. And everyone knows that.

I don't think its quite as simple as that. I've already posted my story. For me it was because i was damaged. Being damaged doesn't mean i was not a decent person. What i did wasn't nice behaviour but i like to think I've grown into the decent person i am now as i have matured and dealt with my issues. That decent person was always there.