The Brave Babes Battle Bus - Are Going To Need A Bigger Bus!

[Mouseface]

Which is FANTASTIC!

Welcome to the Brave Babes Battle Bus, I'm Mouse and I'm addicted to cheese, but have a pretty nasty relationship with alcohol too, mainly vodka.

This Bus is for anyone and everyone. Drinking or sober, or somewhere in between or just not sure if you're drinking too much........... this is the place to ask and maybe have a chat too.

No pressure, no judging, no cliquey savoury flans (although I'm rather partial to a cheese slice ), we're all on The Bus for the same reason; alcohol.

Even if it's not you, and you'd like to talk about someone you know, come and say hi. We won't bite, well, not unless you ask very nicely!

And, if you'd like to see our journey so far, follow THIS LINK and read back through the previous links there.

See you soon xx

fuckit and saf that is all so true about the Pimms and the amount of wine at a party! Oh I could laugh... except I have a Situation coming up Friday and I'm dreading it for this very reason. I've managed to be pretty sober at home... but at my PIL is I think nearly impossible. I just can't get through an evening with my MIL without alcohol! But I remember the last time I was there, I'm sure drinking made it worse. I am considering pulling a sickie and not going with DH. This isn't a long-term solution, but right now when I feel like I've nearly cracked it... I need all my strength.

This evening, DH in a foul mood because the TV and cable company messed up. Upset the kids, and even made DD cry. and not once did I wish there was wine in the house. In fact, was probably better without it (sorry for the detailed introspection, it just helps me writing it all down) because if there'd been any wine around, my anger at him would have continued until I had a drink. Without it, I either had to stay angry until some time next week or just get over it.

AND I am dreading going back to work after the meeting with my boss last week... and yet still no alcohol cravings.

Sorry for this huge long saga.

Glad to hear that you're not drinking and not craving it, Joey. Hope your DH apologises for his behaviour!

I also identify with the wine at a party (quite like pimms on occasion though), and I can never see the point of communal bottles of wine - sitting there nursing a luke warm glass of pinot grigio wishing everyone would bloody well hurry up and drink theirs so I could pour another one.

Well today was another AFD, and after dinner we went for a sunset walk to try to hear the nightjars. It was cold but enjoyable, and we heard a nightjar right at the end (it's a really eerie sound). Not something we could've done if I'd had a drink, as it's a drive away (and DP doesn't drive) so I'm feeling good about that and better about myself.

I completely understand what you're saying Jesus. That there needs to be a safe, non-judgemental space for everyone who is recovering from alcoholism. And I would agree with that. I need it too - I've done some terrible bloody things whilst drunk, just look at my post downthread.

The thing is, as a domestic abuse worker, what myself and my colleagues are always telling women is that alcohol does not cause domestic abuse. A woman's abuser might be an alcoholic too, and that may exacerbate the situation, but a man has to believe he is entitled to abuse his partner in order to act in that way, and that sense of entitlement is always there - alcohol or no alcohol.

Abusive men often use their drinking as an excuse for something they wanted and felt entitled to do anyway. And it is that attitude I'm not sure I can bear to sit in the same room with.

It sounds as though I won't have to however, from what Venus has said. And also, given that in order to recover everyone needs a safe space in which to talk about their drinking and its consequences, I might have to do some serious thinking about what it means to be a part of creating that safe space, both for myself and others. I'm only too aware of how easily someone could sit in judgement over me...

Morning everyone, some very interesting posts to catch up on. I too can relate to the sharing of wine though I do like lower alcohol drinks I know the struggle of desperately trying to slow down and obsessing all night about where the next drink is coming from. It's day 10 for me and I'm feeling rested and relaxed but my worry is now that I'm feeling good I'm telling myself that things are not so bad and maybe I could drink in moderation I have family coming this weekend and I know we will be out for dinner etc and will be tempted by wine. Do you think it would be ok to see how it goes or should I wait until I have the two months abstinence that I had agreed on. I know it probably hasn't been long enough to break any deeply engrained habits but a big part of me wants to drink this weekend.

morning! fuckit, i have never come across that kind of thinking from an abusive man in aa, to be frank, i dont think a man who really thought like that would find aa was the right place for him - part of the 12 steps recovery is to take a 'fearless and moral inventory' of ourselves and our actions - i think you would find that any perpetrator of dv you found in aa would be more than willing to admit the fault was squarly thier own! another thought for you, your alcohol problem should be the uppermost thought in your mind right now, you want to fix things and get your life back on track, stop worrying about 'maybes' you may go find that you go to hundreds of meetings and never hear stories of dv, believe me, a great amny of the men i have met there are just very nice guys who have done stupid/dangerous/idiotic stuff just like you have and have managed not to phyisically hurt anyone ever,, not all of them are violent wife beaters!

Yes Jesus you're right. I'm over thinking things because I'm just feeling anxious about it all in general. Of course I realise that not all male alcoholics are domestically abusive, it's just that I have worked with the effects of dv for years so it was something that came to mind, that's all.

The truth is I find the whole prospect of attending AA and facing up to my own alcoholism absolutely terrifying. The thought of taking a fearless and moral inventory of my own makes me feel sick. When it comes to some of the things I've done when drunk I know I won't be able to speak the words out loud to a room full of strange people. I couldn't even tell my closest friend everything. I'm certainly not prepared to talk about some of the more private stuff with a room full of strange blokes!

But I fear AA is the only way left for me. I've tried and tried to control my drinking on my own and I just can't. I know I can't. Or perhaps I can for a short time but a disaster always happens in the end. I'm 36, I've got three lovely children, I've got everything to live for. And I want alcohol out of my life. I've had enough.

fuckit all i can say is not in aa. people in aa are facing up to stuff - not blaming. and it's a really important part of it NOT to blame stuff on drinking and wriggle out of responsibility. it is characteristic of drinking alcoholics to lack self responsibility and accountability and to be incredibly selfish. stopping that is a part of recovery.

i can tell you that i've encountered not one, but two men in aa whose wives actually tried to kill them - both stabbed - and who both refused to press charges despite being pressed by the police to do so because they believe they'd utterly driven them to it. now that was an amusing meeting, 'ooh i really identify with what your saying because my wife tried to kill me too...' honestly the barriers you're creating don't exist and anyway don't you face that dilemna every time you sit and have a drink in a pub? that you're sat next to some bloke who may be an abuser? who is spending the family money getting pissed whilst she's at home looking after the kids? etc etc.

it was the bit on normal drinking and what it means for non-alcoholics and the contrast of that with what it is like for us in the later stages of our drinking careers. i always like this line, "there was an insistent yearning to enjoy life as we once did and a heartbreaking obsession that some new miracle of control would enable us to do it. there was always one more attempt - and one more failure." and "someday he will be unable to imagine life either with alcohol or without it. then he will know loneliness such as few do. he will be at the jumping-off place. he will wish for the end". that last bit is about rock bottom really - it isn't a dramatic event necessarily or being in the gutter with pissy pants - it's a mental/emotional/spiritual/whatever you want to call it place imo. things get unbearable or you just get sick and tired and your ability to fudge and deny and scheme just wear out. i dunno. different for everyone i guess.

right i'm going on and on. sorry! glad people identified with the pimms thing. we do share this crap and it is a kind of insanity! especially when you consider we torture ourselves over and over again. there's a bit in there somewhere about the mad ways we try and reclaim alcohol and achieve control - like switching from wine to beer, never drinking alone or only drinking at home, only drinking on days x, y, z etc etc etc. i so identified with that because i did so much scheming to try and keep it in my life. it's like an abusive relationship in a way that is so clearly doomed but you keep trying to make it work because 'i love 'im'!

right i will shut up now.

hope everyone is doing ok x

Skippy well done on your 10 days, that's fantastic. But I know how easy it is to lull youself into a false sense of security and you start thinking to yourself "well maybe I could just drink in moderation..."
For me that has proved to be a lie, again and again.
I'd try and stick to your original plan of abstinence for two months. That's why I'm finding antabuse such a help - if I take it I can't drink. Simples. And I've got through a couple of big social things without booze and been fine.

x posted - you are a strange person too fuckit - you will be one of the roomful of strange people and you'd be surprised how much easier those strange people are to share things with than those closest to you because you can see the understanding in their eyes and their nodding heads because they've been there too. anyway. just try it and you don't have to share anything if you dont' want to and you don't have to be taking moral inventories until you're ready to. just slow it down! deal with today x

ha! that 'because i love 'im' has really made me chuckle. i will here it in my head now i'm afraid everytime someone says but i love drinking - i don't like the twat it turns me into or the fact that it's spending all my money, sapping my energy and mental health, etc etc but i love it! mindbending stuff alcoholism.

hi skippy - of course you have to make up your own mind, but I know that I went round and round and round and round the kind of cycle that you're talking about: stopping drinking for a few days, thinking I'm in control, giving in to an impulse, and then very quickly right back to the beginning again. Done that for far too many years . I can understand the great temptation for you and it would probably feel like a big relief, but please give some really serious consideration to planning how you could get through the weekend - you may not enjoy every second of it, you may feel cross and petulant and deprived at moments, but at the end of it you will feel immensely proud, and you will have demonstrated to yourself than you can survive a weekend without booze.

If you picked at random any of the many threads that there have been over the past 2 years you would find in each and very one of them people posting before and after the situation you describe. And you can read the incredible relief that posters feel if they've battled through without a drink, and how it often feels like a tiny victory. Or you can also read the posts where people have given in, had one glass the first day, and end up drinking far more then they intended, and feel physically crap, sad, disappointed in themselves and back at the beginning of the cycle. Where would you rather be next Monday morning?

Yes this line was the one that stood out for me Swallowed a heartbreaking obsession that some new miracle of control would enable us to do it. there was always one more attempt - and one more failure. That really speaks to me. I've spent years telling myself that this time it will be different. And it never is.

On a more positive note, does anyone else find that drinking makes their skin awful? Dehydrated, yet congested and spotty at the same time? A week of not drinking and eating really well and my skin goes back to its natural, even, clear, healthy self.

Trivial I know, but I really enjoy that glowing, healthy look I have when I'm not drinking.

fuckit you do sound scared but in all honesty I think that you are worrying about it too much, and that is making you feel more scared. In AA there is not a 'set programme' that you have to go through (and each group is different in any case). You do not have to do anything that you don't want to do. The 'moral inventory' is part of the 12 step programme - which no-one has to do, in fact you will find in many meeting people who have been there for years and will not have 'done the steps'. If you did decide that was right for you, then you would approach it at your own pace, with support that you chose, and would only ever tell a group what you felt you needed to tell them (which might be nothing).

You know you've had enough, so don't let your fear stop you from doing something which might help (or might not - but you'll never know till you try).

fuckit I (and others) wax lyrical about the benefits of vitamin B. Alcohol messes up our absorption of vitB which is essential for repair of skin cells, and for repair of nerve damage. No wonder that when we drink our eyes, skin, hair and nails suffer, and that we feel jittery and anxious and depressed. And it can be remarkable how quickly the damage starts to repair

And for any lurking posters who think we've gone all AA-evangelical on here, be reassured that all and every approach to dealing with an alcohol problem is welcomed and encouraged here - rational recovery, approaches supported by medication, abstinence, controlled drinking, counselling, therapy, hypnotism, and any weird and whacky things that might just help for a moment.

We are all different, and we all respond better / worse to different approaches, and personally I think it is all fascinating.

yes but i wouldn't recommend the substituting alcohol with tubs of ice-cream method. it seems to work but is not without it's unfortunate side effects

Fuckit Just to say, I was thinking of you earlier and wondering how you are.

From what I've heard, AA can be extremely helpful to people. My uncle is a recovering alcoholic. He used to sit in his car all day drinking vodka when he was meant to be at work. He would leave his wife and children for weeks and weeks to go on drinking binges. It was so sad. In the end, he went bankrupt and his marriage split up. He joined AA and, despite one fairly enormous relapse, has been sober for about twenty years.

saf it depends which flavour ice-cream you have. I can recommend Sainsburys Salted Caramel and Chocolate - it sounds awful, but its heaven

sounds delicious joey sadly unless it's calorie free it will have the same side effect

I went to AA for a long time and I don't want to go back for my own reasons. However, if it works, go for it. :)

I'm bored out of my mind - because of the mumps I'm pretty much under house arrest so I don't infect anyone. Apart from that, my day is going fine. And I have ice cream for later - doctor's orders.

Love to all of you Babes, speak later. x

I've replaced alcohol with sleeping tablets and coffee (and ice-cream)

Am trying to get through to GPs to discuss anxiety problems. Have been on hold for 25 minutes.

Tried to get through to doctors for one hour. Was then on hold for 15 minutes! When I finally got through, the next available appointment to see my GP was in 2 weeks... I am going to see a different GP this afternoon.

Its no wonder people with alcohol problems don't want to discuss it with the doctor - this sort of rigmarole makes me feel like I'm taking away precious time from real patients with genuine problems.

stop it! you're a real patient with genuine problems.

afternoon!

fuckit - i was absolutly terrified when i realised that my alcoholism could no longer be ignored, the thought of life without alcohol was pretty well unimaginable, i was frightened to admit i had a problem, and frightened to carry on drinking, life was a constant muddle, a whirl of trying to desperatly catch up with the things i should have done while fending off my dh and dd and their unhappiness at what they could see was my spiral downwards while all the time feeling like shit, i knew i was making myself ill, i knew that my family couldnt go on as we were but i was too terrifed to call a halt - im actually glad now that i reached my rock bottom, i dread to think how far i could have fallen!

these days life is so much easier its pretty well unimaginable to think of life with the alcohol, tbh, the thought of getting drunk (i never did moderate drinking) the following hangover, the stepping back on the whirl of a drunken existance is now too terrifying to contemplate.

i well remember the first few weeks of soberity, i was scared, confused, a bit more scared i worryed about everything, how would i function without booze, how would i get to sleep?, how would i socialise? how would i 'network' for my business?, how would i get through a holiday? a wedding? christmas? jesus h it was all around me, a constant presence, even a bit of tv watching was punctuated with adverts telling me that i could drink tia maria or bacardi and look glamourous and feel marvellous, every bloody person i knew would say things like 'oh! what a day! i shall be pleased to get and have a glass of wine' fucking hell it was hard work!

the thing is, the more i stayed sober, the easier it became! i used to count days, weeks, months.... now, and fuck knows how i got here, im counting in years! the fear has honestly left me, the days are longer and brighter, my health is good (im now menopausal, i dread to think how i would have coped with that while still drinking) i look better, my mental health is better, im calm, happy and very fulfilled - on a totally superfical level, my skin is clear, my eyes are bright, my hair is thicker than it has been in years, i have lost the 'wine belly' and i get chatted up fairly regularly! on a personal level, my relationships with my dh and dd have never been better and im able to cope with my dm (i love her but she can be 'difficult' ) better than i could while drinking.

please try and see yourself in a few years, how do you want to be? you can do sober, you just have to keep trying trying trying!

jwn that's a wonderful post and i'm really glad you wrote it. know it was directed at fuckit but it really helps me. thank you.

p.s. i will be counting in months soon - 2 months on monday