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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How do you know when your relationship is over?

102 replies

Netcurtainstwitching · 09/05/2012 13:58

Yes unhappy with dh

I feel like I'm going crazy. Which isn't good...

I don't know where to start.

Currently I am pissed off as:
a) he said we could move when dd is 4, he is clearly now moving the goalposts for this one. I am desparate for a house with a garden, the dc want a garden. Dh does not like gardens. So we don't move

b) we have money, heaps of money, enough to get above house. I get £1300 into my bank acct every month. No mortgage but food, ALL household bills, pets insurance, everything comes out of that. He does not like to give extra. And no I don't have access to the savings, bar his card (no pin) which I have used to pay for a holiday (online) for me and the dc Grin. I have overspent but have had 3 big birthdays to pay for and still recovering from xmas (in may! am I unusual?)

c) he will not come on above holiday, 4 days it is. It will be too stressful with the dc (2 and 5) Hmm.

d) He wont go for meals out anywhere but two cafe's as food is too salty in any italian, indian whatever...

e) dh had a long discussion the other day with me about my housework (or lack of). House cluttered. He will not help as its too chaotic. Other housewives manage. May I say here he has been self employed in parents business since age of 12. He has never experienced the outer world...I use to hear all sorts working in various offices, different opinions/thoughts/ideas...he spends all day alone or with his father or mother or sister or aunt. I keep my distance from them, their mad as a box of frogs. But he works with them every day.

f) housework. Like I said, he says its too chaotic to do anything. He believes that children can wear one outfit a week (he has had dd1 in one outfit for two weeks before...he seems to not see the DIRT there is on clothes...). That we should halve the amount of clothes we have. That I make everything 10 times as hard as I need too and let the children distract me. I should just shut them in a room till I've finished what I'm doing. If he was looking after the house and dc he would halve the amount of work "guarenteed". He does NOTHING round the house. Not take bins out, no diy (and there is so much to do...he expects me to do it), no washing up (he rinses his and dc dishes on a morning but that is without soap), no washing clothes...

g) sex. He wants it everyday, if not a few times a week. Feeling as I do above I dont want to have sex with someone who doesn't give a monkeys thank you very much. So in the last year I've started refusing. All the time. We often sleep in separate beds.

h) (can I get throught the alphabet? Lets try...) Lack of affection/empathy. Nothing to say on this, sums it up. None. Unless it involves groping. Refer g)

i) never, ever leaves work early to surprise me, or do family things...he's self employed he CAN find the time for bike rides but not get home early. In fact he never takes holidays.

Positives
a) gets dc up and dressed and breakfasted
b) (after 2 years not sleeping and me looking after her and becoming a complete wreck) dc2 now sleeps through the night and he gets up to her if she wakes
c) takes dc on walks and to cafe once a week, reads books to them, does bedtime stories
d) He has an amazing body for his age
e) I would find him sexually attractive again if I could sort out long list above. He is still attractive. But he does have a belief that women want it etc but he does agree drunk ladies are fair game Hmm I put him straight on that one and he knows where I stand on that...and that is something that crosses my mind when we have sex. He seems to have a real male view of the world...bit footballery if you know what I mean...he keeps a cap on it, but I know its under the surface.
f) he is the childrens father. I don't want them to lose their daddy. :( :( :( I know from when we separated before he said he would stop working so I could not claim anything from him. He also refused to see dc on a frequent basis as "other fathers I know don't" and he "didn't want to get their hopes up" Angry Sad this was said after we got back together and in a discussing other people we know who split up kind of way...
g) he says he loves me...or did when we got back together...first time he said it. Wants all the lovey dovey stuff and has assured me for the last 8 years how affectionate he is...I've just never seen it. Apparently he's had is heart broken too many times and he can't face it again. Not even for his wife apparently, who he has had dc with.

I'm so sorry that this is so long but I've talked myself calm again...and for the record the house is NOT cluttered, you can see ALL the bedrooms floors, and ALL of the living room floor...we have no shelves as he doesn't want screw holes in the walls in fact no pictures on the walls either...no nails allowed...

And before I sign off...yes I have discussed most of the above with him...we just go round in circles. He is Mr Perfect and his way is the only way. ANd he is Mr Always Right...

Can I just scream now? Or cry...or both....sometimes I do see a peek of what he could be like then it goes away again when we start discussing things again...completely fruitless...

Thank you so much for reading so far....someone please help...

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 09/05/2012 14:08

Your list of "positives" are not enough, infact nowhere near enough, to stay within this abusive marriage at the hands of this controlling and emotionally damaged man. (F) in your list of negatives is him being a true low life. He is the childrens' father granted but he sure as hell does not really act like one nor is he nice to you his wife and mother of his children. You will never get anywhere with such a man; he will not change.

You can only help your own self here and I would advise you to seek legal advice and a forensic accountant in case he starts hiding money from you.

What do you get out of this relationship now?. Why are you with him still?.

Why I am also not surprised to read that his parents are as mad as a box of frogs?. He learnt an awful lot of damaging stuff from them, damage that you cannot yourself undo.

You do realise that you're being financially abused as well amongst his many crimes against this relationship. You are in an abusive marriage.

Is this the life you really want for your children because such an individual will start on them soon enough.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 09/05/2012 14:10

F) in your list of negatives is him being a true low life.

That should say list of so called positives.

This is broken beyond repair. Do not even think about having joint counselling with this man.

What do you want to happen?.

Anniegetyourgun · 09/05/2012 14:13

So um... he loves the children so much that if their parents split up he will choose not to see them again, and he'd rather be on the dole than contribute to their keep? Yeah, great father there Hmm

As for the body, well, that's not a lot of use to you if he has put you off sex, now is it?

He says he loves you, but he doesn't show it. Words are cheap. I love you too. I've never met you, I don't know what you look like, but I've just told you I love you, so it must be true, right?

And that's it for good points, basically.

So, practically, if you were to divorce, how could you organise things so it worked out ok for you and the DCs? (Sounds like Mr Perfect would be fine, oh except for being voluntarily unemployed - believe that one when I see it 'n' all.)

CogitoErgoSometimes · 09/05/2012 14:22

I think if you've explained how you feel and had it dismissed as unimportant you have to escalate it to stand a chance of being taken seriously. I don't think you actually want to end it... just that you're frustrated at being taken for granted and that you don't appear to take any kind of priority in his life. Changing someone's character is always a vain hope. If he's basically lazy, selfish and sees you as a housekeeper with benefits then you're probably not going to make much of a dent. But if an ultimatum or the prospect of losing his family is what it takes to put a rocket up his arse, it could be worth a last ditch shot.

I'd therefore be talking to a solicitor, finding out the legalities behind a split, doing something constructive for your own future, setting as much money aside as you can and then laying it on the line as a 'shape up or ship out'. Good luck

Netcurtainstwitching · 09/05/2012 14:25

Attila I'm wanting to say 'he's not that bad' but I just can't get over him not compromising...discussing things...if he would we could move on...I want him to understand and listen! But I can't believe there is nothing more I can do, I need to work this out for the children. ANd I'm weak and scared of being without a man in my life. HOw bloody sad and weak is that. I'm also from a screwed up family I have no contact with, hence wanting love and affection whereever I can get it.

Annie You made me smile. I love you too. I know actions not words...he says he looks after children so much for my sake so I can go do things...and no I'm not impressed he would quit job just to spite the ex wife...never mind the children who need financial support. I have a mate whose ex did this and dh thought it a great idea Hmm. He knows I don't want the ruddy money...i even suggested he leave his job (to get him out into the world) and get a lower paid one but he wants to stay because of the money. I suggested (left out his chronic tiredness) that they get another member of staff...again refused as that would come out of his wages. I dont' care so long as we see more of him...

OP posts:
Netcurtainstwitching · 09/05/2012 14:29

Cogito...okay...I can go along those lines... not ready to give up yet. More detail on doing something constructive with my future...I'm useless at work...too easily distractable :(

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 09/05/2012 14:38

"Attila I'm wanting to say 'he's not that bad' but I just can't get over him not compromising...discussing things...if he would we could move on...I want him to understand and listen! But I can't believe there is nothing more I can do, I need to work this out for the children. ANd I'm weak and scared of being without a man in my life. HOw bloody sad and weak is that. I'm also from a screwed up family I have no contact with, hence wanting love and affection whereever I can get it".

I am going to be very blunt. Better to be alone than to be badly accompanied as you are currently. He will destroy you utterly in the end and this is why I urge you to seek legal advice before he manages to do that. He will take you all down with him.

He will never understand or listen and there is nothing more you can do. He is not interested in fixing anything; he wants control and power over you and by turn the children. This is what abuse is about; power and control. He is already controlling you financially and emotionally.

You cannot work this out for the children; he is not interested in your point of view and views you as an object to be both groped and ignored at the same time.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships?. Your own childhood was at the hands of toxic parents but you can buck this cycle, you really can. You do not have to submit to the wills of this man. You do not need this man in your life, you'd all be better off without his daily malign prescence in it sucking all the joy out of your lives. This is no way to live and your children would not thank you for remaining with their Dominator of a dad who they saw abuse their mother on a daily basis. Your future relationship with your children could also be damaged if you were to stay within this because they could well ask you outright why you put him before them; they could well see it that way and despise you for being too weak to leave him.

kittycatwoman · 09/05/2012 14:39

Can I ask if he is from a different culture ?? Jewish maybe ? Because I know someone who behaves exactly like that.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 09/05/2012 14:45

Your own childhood at the hands of toxic parents also led you into this man's arms so am not totally surprised therefore that you have ended up with a controlling type. But you do not have to continue along this cycle of dysfunction with your children now being in his firing line as well as yourself.

You have a choice re him; your children do not.

Setting aside money for yourself could well be difficult and take considerable time too given his claw like control over the family finances. You still have no access to what he likely regards as "his" money.

The financial abuse on his part would be enough for me to seek legal advice let alone the other points. I would seek legal advice asap as well as subsequently employing the services of a forensic acct.

Netcurtainstwitching · 09/05/2012 15:01

Attila Pm'ed you

Kitty not Jewish :) he's just from a local place with local people if you get my drift...never gone far...

OP posts:
Netcurtainstwitching · 09/05/2012 15:03

Attila 'his' money. How did you know? I pointed out the other day that he would not have earned it looking after dc...he did look surprised at the thought. He suggested that if I got a job earning what he does then we swap rolls...looking after dc would be easy compared to his job Hmm

He has money in savings acct, (statements on shelf) and in the business acct with his parents. And cash in hand of £100 a month?

OP posts:
Netcurtainstwitching · 09/05/2012 15:04

'roles' not 'rolls'...

OP posts:
Netcurtainstwitching · 09/05/2012 15:07

He'll be back soon, should be able to sign on again at 5...I don't like this...I talk to my close mates about him and they all think he's not right. Some outraged some thinking he's odd.

He also never makes eyecontact with anyone he does not take too. So most my friends...he sits on sofa and shuts his eyes...v rude...I always feel I have to make up for the fact he won't be sociable. Apparently he won't be as he did all that when he was younger (had a large circle of friends) and can't be bothered anymore as you just meet the same type of people over and over again Hmm.

Am I really going to do anythign about this...I don't think I can sit on these feelings anymore...breaking out in exema...always do when under a lot of stress...

OP posts:
Feckthis · 09/05/2012 15:10

Net. I recognise so much. Be strong. You are not going mad. He's altering your ability to gauge what is ok and what isn't. I'm in the same boat (do I bin? Thread on here is me). Go and talk to a lawyer. I did today. I feel fucking brilliant now. You'll realise how far you've been manipulated and that will give you wings. Take care.

Netcurtainstwitching · 09/05/2012 16:42

Feckthis he really is a bully! Very obvious EA to me. Very glad you have seen a lawyer :)

I just know there is another side to dh but he's just not showing it right now due to stress. He's been all smiley this aft as he had an easy day at work and has taken dc out for a few hours...he can be great. Suspect he's also smiley as I am wearing the joggers he likes me wearing Hmm suspect he's thinking of getting some tonight. He can be smiley when he's off work or had an easy day. Usually we get 'suppressed frustration and irritation' special :( always makes me jump when he smiles and reminds me why I got together with him.

Attila :) googled 'the dominator' as I guessed it was a ref to something. I cried at what a relationship should be...affection with no suggestion of sex...that stood out. Apparently he cannot be affectionate when I don't have sex with him as he just gets too frustrated...very flattering I'm sure Hmm

Obviously he is quite obcessed with sex as I keep mentioning it!

OP posts:
Heyyyho · 09/05/2012 17:58

Yuk I don't like the sound of " drunk women are fair game'" Shock

AnyFucker · 09/05/2012 18:24

he looks after the children well ?

ok, he could do that in another house when you split and co-parent

your H is a bullying, controlling, financially-abusive, sexually-disordered misogynist

you would be well-advised to dissolve your marriage....it would transform your life, IMO

you would probably be a lot better off financially too, as well as getting proper child-free time during his contact periods

Netcurtainstwitching · 09/05/2012 18:43

Heyyyho years ago he said that if someone came back to his place and passed out...he would.

Anyfucker Yes he looks after them well bar him having NO COMMON SENSE imo...but he supports them and is encouraging of what they do...praises them...The downside is he doesn't really have a fun side and wants dc1 to stop being silly Hmm but over all he does lots of walks with them, takes them to playground, will dance with them...he does have a good side

I dont feel I have ever been in love with him or anyone else. But all the men I have been out with have been complete dickheads. I stay for them not me. After separating I went back for a) children b) him...I'm an idjit. I knew at the time I should have said no but he declared his love for me, wanted to snog on the sofa all night (v boring and there is some slurpage ) that soon came to an end. Now I dare not go near him in case he wants to resume sexual contact. I just keep telling myself I could be throwing something away, it could be good...just forever hopeful things will change, he will change. But you can't change a person. If this is the person he is after his failed relationships, then that is him. Not what he says he was before. I've yet to meet this loving, affectionate man... :( just when he smiles I think 'yes'...but maybe its just relief from the usual 'grey clouds gathering' frown... drivverling now...and gathering thoughts...

I can't help feeling a thrill at having my 'own' place one day...this house has always been his...and he always turns it round to say that its 'my' house because its full of clutter (its NOT FULL OF FECKING CLUTTER!!!...really it is not...feel like posting proof of it)

The thought of one day being with someone who is my mate...he isn't, I can't tell him anything as he laughs at what I feel or dismisses it...I don't have a laugh with him as he has a bitchy sense of humour I'm not comfortable with anymore...

I should not drink and post and watch mamma mia... Wine. Going to have to wind up soon...dh back shortly and I'm doing bedtime tonight...

thank you so much for responses tonight. I am thinking everyone is either being a) too harsh on him b) I have not put it across clearly enough so everyone is misuderstanding due to me..but I do understand that I felt it was 'always me' with my family and it wasn't about me, it was about them...so maybe something will leak through...I just can't carry on like this anymore...

Right off before I get more maudlin...:)

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 09/05/2012 18:47

I believe your house is not full of clutter, it is a family home

your H isn't a "family man" however, despite his weasley and ingratiating words that hooked you in the 1st place

actions speak much louder than yap

Netcurtainstwitching · 09/05/2012 18:56

'I believe your house is not full of clutter' just made me tear up a bit. Thank you for believing me.

He likes to separate us, me with dc2 and him with dc1. Dc1 is asking for me much more now.

He is just so narcsisstic. Just like my flipping family. I'm just very well trained I suppose :(

The intelligence thing gets to me the most. My father and sister felt

got to go!

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 09/05/2012 18:58
Sad
Feckthis · 09/05/2012 19:54

Net, are you sure my DH isn't his long lost brother? I started off thinking everyone here didn't really 'get' my DH. It was only when a close member of his family told me I wasn't being harsh that (some) of the scales lifted from my eyes. Your DH sounds like mine in that in his flawed way he does love the DC. But only on his terms. It's not unconditional. They have to not be 'silly' not be messy etcetc at some point you have to see it from the outside and then you'll see how skewed that is. Wtf? They can't play with cars because it cld damage the floor? Ffs. I feel like a complete shit when I comply with that viewpoint and that's why I'm stopping it. The DC can't. You have to protect their childhood. And in case you think I'm preaching I'm saying this feeling completely useless because DC1 has just played up at bedtime (tired and emotional bless him) and I got stern instead of trying to jolly him along. This whole process is a bitch but it's got to be worth it.
Sorry for ranting but you sound so familiar it hurts. Take care xxxx

Netcurtainstwitching · 09/05/2012 20:28

Could be! Not be messy! dc2 cannot mess around with food, have a cup without a lid, cannot serve herself food etc...I always let her, love her having the independance to pour some milk from a jug. Dh just sees it as mess to clear up :(

We got a new carpet when we moved in...expensive carpet as it would last longer. Pointed out children might get it messy...oh no they wouldn't be allowed too. I let kids picnic on it Grin he hates it but hard to be a spoilsport when I have friend round with children.

He is so bloody unsocial though...so bloody rude to my mates...he will say hello but that will be it. No 'how are you?' 'hows the other half?' etc...nothing unless it is someone he approves of like a local friend (know same people) and someone who lives in the village. He never makes eyecontact particularly with those he does not like/get on with...i could swat him one.

I'm thinking back now as to what he has said about past gf's and much rings true.

Don't want to sit in a room with him tonight. And he will be wanting 'it' going to tell him if he does some housework it might help his case...or discuss issues further. So stressed about going on holiday without him... its just plain wrong. And the reason he is using is the dc...its too stressful with them and he will go 'when they are old enough to entertain themselves' :( could be teenagers before that happens... :( all those fun times missed. And it wouldn't be half so ruddy stressful if he got his finger out and helped me. But no...I take too much...make work for myself. We have two children for fs...I would rather take too much than too sodding little!

I feel like this is dreamlike...been here so many times in my imagination...doesn't feel real I'm really, in real life, contemplating this....

Hope you have a good evening Feckthis.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 09/05/2012 20:45

please don't use sex as a bargaining tool to get him to a) help around the house b) deign to discuss your relationship with you (he should be doing those things already)....it demeans you

have sex with him if you want to...don't if you don't

Netcurtainstwitching · 09/05/2012 20:51

Good points.

Better go and be 'sociable'...going to have to compartmentalise this...two lives at the moment.

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