How do you know when your relationship is over?

[Netcurtainstwitching]

Yes unhappy with dh

I feel like I'm going crazy. Which isn't good...

I don't know where to start.

Currently I am pissed off as:
a) he said we could move when dd is 4, he is clearly now moving the goalposts for this one. I am desparate for a house with a garden, the dc want a garden. Dh does not like gardens. So we don't move

b) we have money, heaps of money, enough to get above house. I get £1300 into my bank acct every month. No mortgage but food, ALL household bills, pets insurance, everything comes out of that. He does not like to give extra. And no I don't have access to the savings, bar his card (no pin) which I have used to pay for a holiday (online) for me and the dc . I have overspent but have had 3 big birthdays to pay for and still recovering from xmas (in may! am I unusual?)

c) he will not come on above holiday, 4 days it is. It will be too stressful with the dc (2 and 5) .

d) He wont go for meals out anywhere but two cafe's as food is too salty in any italian, indian whatever...

e) dh had a long discussion the other day with me about my housework (or lack of). House cluttered. He will not help as its too chaotic. Other housewives manage. May I say here he has been self employed in parents business since age of 12. He has never experienced the outer world...I use to hear all sorts working in various offices, different opinions/thoughts/ideas...he spends all day alone or with his father or mother or sister or aunt. I keep my distance from them, their mad as a box of frogs. But he works with them every day.

f) housework. Like I said, he says its too chaotic to do anything. He believes that children can wear one outfit a week (he has had dd1 in one outfit for two weeks before...he seems to not see the DIRT there is on clothes...). That we should halve the amount of clothes we have. That I make everything 10 times as hard as I need too and let the children distract me. I should just shut them in a room till I've finished what I'm doing. If he was looking after the house and dc he would halve the amount of work "guarenteed". He does NOTHING round the house. Not take bins out, no diy (and there is so much to do...he expects me to do it), no washing up (he rinses his and dc dishes on a morning but that is without soap), no washing clothes...

g) sex. He wants it everyday, if not a few times a week. Feeling as I do above I dont want to have sex with someone who doesn't give a monkeys thank you very much. So in the last year I've started refusing. All the time. We often sleep in separate beds.

h) (can I get throught the alphabet? Lets try...) Lack of affection/empathy. Nothing to say on this, sums it up. None. Unless it involves groping. Refer g)

i) never, ever leaves work early to surprise me, or do family things...he's self employed he CAN find the time for bike rides but not get home early. In fact he never takes holidays.

Positives
a) gets dc up and dressed and breakfasted
b) (after 2 years not sleeping and me looking after her and becoming a complete wreck) dc2 now sleeps through the night and he gets up to her if she wakes
c) takes dc on walks and to cafe once a week, reads books to them, does bedtime stories
d) He has an amazing body for his age
e) I would find him sexually attractive again if I could sort out long list above. He is still attractive. But he does have a belief that women want it etc but he does agree drunk ladies are fair game I put him straight on that one and he knows where I stand on that...and that is something that crosses my mind when we have sex. He seems to have a real male view of the world...bit footballery if you know what I mean...he keeps a cap on it, but I know its under the surface.
f) he is the childrens father. I don't want them to lose their daddy. :( :( :( I know from when we separated before he said he would stop working so I could not claim anything from him. He also refused to see dc on a frequent basis as "other fathers I know don't" and he "didn't want to get their hopes up" this was said after we got back together and in a discussing other people we know who split up kind of way...
g) he says he loves me...or did when we got back together...first time he said it. Wants all the lovey dovey stuff and has assured me for the last 8 years how affectionate he is...I've just never seen it. Apparently he's had is heart broken too many times and he can't face it again. Not even for his wife apparently, who he has had dc with.

I'm so sorry that this is so long but I've talked myself calm again...and for the record the house is NOT cluttered, you can see ALL the bedrooms floors, and ALL of the living room floor...we have no shelves as he doesn't want screw holes in the walls in fact no pictures on the walls either...no nails allowed...

And before I sign off...yes I have discussed most of the above with him...we just go round in circles. He is Mr Perfect and his way is the only way. ANd he is Mr Always Right...

Can I just scream now? Or cry...or both....sometimes I do see a peek of what he could be like then it goes away again when we start discussing things again...completely fruitless...

Thank you so much for reading so far....someone please help...

Hello again.
So pleased you had a nice break and came home to flowers even if DH wanted a medal for it!

Things with me this week have been ok, just ok. We get on most of the time, but there is still too much moaning and inconsistency on his part about a whole list of things. I feel that poor DC get all confused, they are only 3 and no quite 2 so can't understand his mood changes. Yes I do feel a little in limbo as you said Net, trying to work out some bumps in the relationship, but wondering if it will ever be smooth enough to live with.

I haven't written on the EA thread, although have read some of it. I don't feel like all of his behaviour or all he nags me about is my fault, although some I have let him get away with for too long so can't see it changing now, I do what I can when I can and the rest just has to do one!

Thanks sewellpeter for your comments.

I agree the more people you speak to the more you will become to believe yourself that it's not right. I have been complaining to a few different people and the one thing that stood out was when they said "my EX used to do that!" or "that's what my relationship was like with my EX" Never a current relationship!

Blimey. My house is messy and I'm here on my own all day. If my husband complained about it, he's be viewing it from under the patio in future.

You need to ask yourself is this how you want to spend the rest of your life? If not, tell him that you're not happy and what you want/need from him and if he doesn't want to do anything about it, then you end it.

You'd be better on your own than with someone who chipping away at your soul.

Thanks both for posting, thread is nearly dead! Still need a bit of support tho.

TheUnMember love 'viewing it from under the patio'...I wish I had a relationship where I felt I could say things like that. I know I'm not happy, I have spent all my life with people sucking the life out of me and its taking some doing to change it. And I have my dc too think of now. Its one thing to be uncertain and hanging on hoping it will get better, and another thing to step up to 'this is not good enough'. I'm nearly at that step I think...just spent since coming back off hol observing his behaviour (washed dishes twice, two medals needed) like an outsider. All comments are welcome, each helps me think about his behaviour with a different light (if that makes sense).

Goldenmama thank you for posting again! Glad things are a bit smoother for you. Agree about the behaviour going on for so long its hard to change it. And yes I have friends whose 'ex's' did some of his behaviour! Why do we put up with it. There has to be something better, or would no relationship at all be better than this? At least I would be able to decorate house in my own style and decide where to spend my money without moans etc.

Anyhoo, last wkend was hol, we were all ill, dc have been off sick from school all week and up all night...I'm pretty tired, he's been sleeping on sofa to get enough rest for work (no cold though unlike me). He set off at 8.30 this morning to go away for a couple of nights clubbing with mates (who are all young and have no children, been planned for months) back on sunday.

So, going to sit tight for a bit longer, want to get jobs done and house sorted as I can so no major expense for a while. Either way he's not planning to move anytime soon, and if we split we will have to stay put for up to a year. May just be a bit cheeky as well, he put all my stuff in garage when I was away...may just do that with his set of drawers that are obsolete and buy a nice dressing up table instead in bedroom...be a nice surprise for him :)

I have a night off tonight (from DH) can't wait to be by myself. That is bad isn't it!

Yep! But if they were best mate type hubby's we'd miss them I suppose.

I won't miss:
Living by the clock
Watching 'educational' programs
Going to bed at whatever time
Putting dc to bed at whatever time
Eating what we want without dissaproval and what we want! Woop! takeaway then!
Share bed with dc
Being lectured about anything under the sun
Him being grumpy as i won't have sex with him

What I will miss:

Time to myself tomorrow
Him doing the out of sch activity car runs x 2
Him going out of the house to go to work for an hour in the evening

When we talked abotu the holiday he did say he didn't mind the children staying up late. As long as someone else looked after them. Nice. He does sit and watch tv with them and do drawing every morning, and does maths and spellings with dc1 and takes them for long walks at weekend. So he does not do nothing. But he also said that they should think themselves lucky as he never saw his father (he didn't, him and dsis cried when their dad looked after them once as they didn't recognise him )

Fancy doing a list Golden? What are you going to get up too?

There is a widespread tendency (even on MN) to see a marriage that has ended as a 'failure'. It is simply a marriage that has come to an end. Hopefully there were good parts to it as well as the bad bits at the end.

But it is finished, like spending three years at university. Time to move on. You might even meet someone lovely. I did.

Have you noticed the only things you will miss include him not being there??

I will try.....

I wont miss
hearing, hearing about or smelling body functions
hearing about injuries/illness/I'm going to die and you don't even care type hypocondria
being told I don't do anything right/don't clean the house enough/don't work hard like he does/you are always so bloody tired and you don't do anything
his opinion, which he like to share whether you want him to or not about everything
his moaning, about everything
his inconsistency with me and with DC
doing dh lunch boxes/washing/errands/haircuts

I will miss
good family days
20 mins I have to tidy round while he baths kids
occasional help after I have asked over and over again
occasional 30mins to myself when he takes kids to park/shop
sex, when I want it it is good!!

Bouncyagain what a lovely post

Goldenmama Bodily functions I don't have to deal with eugh! And hypocondria...my father suffered from that. I loved a Victor Meldrew sketch where he would look up something in the medical book and then develop the symptoms. House ditto

Okay, its over. He has BURNED some of dc's possesions, just found out. Some board games (double check that one) and stuff from the top of their wardrobe, keep all sorts up there. He appears to have taken dc's swimming goggles (he said he put them to the far side of wardrobe so were there) and now they are not. Dc can't reach so he must have got them in his wholescale removal of items. Also denies taking a bag of toy clothes, but the bag is gone.

Asked him about it at kitchen and he was unhappy about that. Then spoke to him away from children and reminded him of our conversation before holiday about him not burning anything, I was furious. He leaned forward (banisters between us) and said in low voice that 'i'm sick of living in a shithole and I will burn anything I don't like/when I want'. Just noting on here so I can write it down if needs be.

I don't need any more convincing that he is aggressive and abusive. Convinced now. Just not feeling anything at the moment. Was working for marriage a few minutes ago and now this...

Will get school run done. Then think.

How are you Net?

Burned?!!!???? Burnt stuff that wasn't his without consultation???!!!!

Sorry for plethora of punctuation.

Destructive, abusive, git. Nasty piece of work.

Get gone, as soon as you can. Get advice from CAB, free half hour from solicitor; phone Women's Aid the moment he's out of the house.

So sorry you're having this happen to you. You can have a happy fulfilled life, and so can your children, but not with him.

Goldenmama in shock still. Spoken to knowledgable friend which helped. Bit shakey and sick. Still in disbelief that he said that but he has been seething about doing the washing up...I don't want to force him to do it, I want him to understand why its important he show some willing. But he doesn't. Nor is he ever likely too. Thought it was great the first time, I stood and dried and nattered about my day, he was a little bit communicative. Second time round he just 'mmmed' and didn't join in at all. Third time 'I've got to do my dishes' like I was his mother making him . Sorry dishes/getting involved in house is important too me. And now I cannot ever leave the house again in fear he will destroy mine and the dc's possessions.

Jux thanks for validation :) He stays silent all the time, never loses his temper but he was close today. I wish he would lose temper over normal things like normal people instead of holding it in. Its not healthy surely...

Going out again now. Try to get thoughts together...in a bit of a daze still.

Oh God what a dickhead! do you want him setting an example to your DCs?

He sounds like a timebomb. This is not a good scenario.

Burning possessions??
Oh, Net.....
This is so far from a band of normal behaviour as you can get. I can't imagine how hard it must be to leave the family home, but he is very seriously FUBAR.
Betty x

I think you are feeling sick that in your gut you know your marriage is over as it is clear he does not see you or the DCs as people more accessories to his life. And now you dont fit.
You owe it to yourself and DCs to plan an exit strategy.

Thank you for your posts

spoke to a man from wikivorce, he has never heard of anyone burning childrens toys before and he says he as dealt with hundreds of divorces as a voluteer. He was very nice and gave lots of advice and listened too....very good help. He did as the conversation wind up then ask if dh had aspergers due to the bizarre burning of possessions. It is somethign I have actually raised with dh before and got him to take the online test, he did come in on the scale of aspergers. The man from wikivorce suggested that instead of divorcing, get dh to see his GP or get some sort of help as he was clearly suffering mentally.

Tbh I resented his advice, I feel I have put up with enough, then expected to make allowances for dh's mental health. He did keep pointing out it was dh's responsibility to seek help and if he did not then to go ahead with divorce.

Dh and I spoke last night. He was calm. He explained the he cannot cope anymore with the house as it is, critisied me (naturally) I'm too slow (I do go slow), get distracted, set poor example to children, he had hoped he would have to do less as the dc got to school/pre sch and instead he is doing just as much. He has taken steps at work to make life easier (so that's something) and he just looked very devastated and upset.

I did agree to sort out paperwork in kitchen and see what needs to go in garage (there is stuff to go, just getting round to it). I did tell him that I felt he needed help and that was something wrong with him if he thought burning my possessions and children's toys was okay and normal. We got no further on that one. He did in the end ask if I wanted a kiss, his way of making amends. I refused as I usually do when we have discussed things. I will leave it with him about his mental health to let it sink in. I will talk to aspergers partners group and gain more insight/information, then approach him again about it.

I have also spoken to my friends and they are being supportive and helpful. So I'm not giving up yet. I do not feel in danger, or the children, but I do not want to jump feet first into a divorce until we have got further on the aspersgers side of things. I should say I strongly suspect my grandad, his two sons (my uncle and dad) and my sister all have strong aspergers traits. I'm like a nodding dog going through the list. And I married dh as he was like my dad. Doh.

I do feel some of you get frustrated with my not doing anything, but remember I am a real person, with a real life, and two real dc to look after and a real dh, I am not going to just drop dh the father of my children because he's acting like a d*ckhead right now. There are things I cannot possibly put across on here, intonation, facial expression, at the end of the day this is just one side of the story, told with alot of frustration and not always a lot of forgiveness. Dh may have many issues and behaved very poorly and even abusively on occasion but he still does have redeeming features. Even if I'm so peed off I can't think of them right now . Please keep posting, every post sets off new trains of thought and makes me feel not quite alone with all this so if you have posted, you've helped someone you've never met :)

As I started to read this thread I wondered if your DH had Aspergers. I'm glad that you feel safe - that's the most important factor. My dh has been highly reluctant to get help but has finally agreed to see a counsellor. It is also vital that you get support so maybe a visit to your gp to ask for free counselling sessions.

Startlife could you tell me about your dh? If you don't mind. Have you seen a councellor about your dh? Are you getting support from any particular websites?

and Net.

You are absolutely a real person and real family to me. I don't know where my relationship is going either, but sticking with it for the time being. DH is showing willing to help, but unfortunately not consistent and one day he might get up early and help with Lunch boxes and the next telling me about all the things I haven't done or haven't done right!

Golden :) Its hard to know what do, talking on here is one thing, breaking up is another. Glad your Dh is showing some willing, maybe a raised eyebrow, crossed arms and a tapping foot may get him back in line. Or 'I could really do with some help this morning, would you be able to do the lunches for me while I get x,y,z done?' Trying not to be passive aggressive there...my speciality... but when you feel like your being ignored even when you are direct...

My dh (I must get my dog training books out again...) is showing some results. He has washed up the last couple of days without an attitude, even took my plate when I had finshed breakfast this morning and washed and put it away before I finished my coffee! And he's giving long kisses goodnight and the same in the morning, getting into our bed (he's in dc2 room again due to her not sleeping when I'm around) and waking me up with a kiss. (Too much kissing for my liking but I'm not going to discourage this sudden affection!) Its a bit strange, he's never been like that, but I'm trying to get used to it. Oh and no sex on the agenda, usually its affection with strings attached, he's finally after 8 years of asking, showing just affection.

Anyway its been only a few days, last time it lasted a couple of weeks, this time we will see. Will keep trying myself to open up a bit to him and keep talking and see how it goes, if he's going to revert to type then it'll be goodbye. Fingers crossed your dh keeps up the good work.

xx

To me he sounds financially, sexually, emotionally and psychologically abusive.

Sex with a passed out woman is rape. Sex with a woman who hasn't consented is also rape. Acquiescing to his abuse isn't the same as consenting. It sounds wrong to me this relationship. He won't change because you want him to, you can only decide to stay with him as he is or leave him. Are you not frightened to live with someone who has said he would rape someone? If not why not? Have you been conditioned to accept his abuse?

Might I add he is still giving physical affection you don't want regardless of whether you want it or not with the kissing. You don't have to accept it and think it is nice if you don't want it. I thought what you were saying you wanted was consideration and affection not unwanted physical attention you have to tolerate.

Thinking a drunk woman is fair game is not a "male thing" or a "footballery" thing it is a rapists thing. Feeling entitled to have sex with someone regardless of their feelings or consent.