Can and should I forgive his infidelity?

[LivingNightmare]

I posted before Christmas about my marriage (search on my nickname if you like) and I'm afraid things got a lot worse after that. To make a very long story short I'm married since 7 years back, a SAHM, 3 young DCs. DH started affair w someone from his work last spring. Continued over summer after confronted admitted only what I could prove but I knew there was more. He promised to cut all contact, we worked on issues in our marriage (the usual of not enough sex, not enough couple time etc).

Before Xmas I had feeling he was seeing her again (still?) and sure enough found very explicit messages he could not deny. The messages were a few weeks old and he claimed he had already finished. Had awful few weeks away on holiday together and when we got back I asked him to move out for a month to give me some space, whilst both said we wanted to stay in the marriage. When he moved back he was very affectionate and expressive of his love so I felt like we had been given a new start. V quickly though I realised he had not been staying at a friend as he said but with her and I was pretty sure he was still seeing her. It all blew up a month ago by me intercepting a meeting between them - I actually sat down and spoke with OW! We was v remorseful and said he had intended to finish w her but was waiting for right time, being a coward - whatever! Said he was relieved that it was now over and was going to spend rest of his life making it up to me.

I said I would take some time to decide what I want to do. Now that the dust has settled I'm really struggling to come to terms with what he did. I think if it had been a one-off mistake or a short-lived affair I would've been able to forgive. But he continued this despite me catching him out several times, and despite assuring me several times it was over. Is it even possible to forgive such a deceit? How could I ever trust him? Even though the affair is probably over (I think it scared her to meet me in RL!) I continue to feel suspicious, questioning his whereabouts in my mind. And I continue to have flash-backs of when he's lied, pictures of what he was like with her etc. Will I always feel like that? He now acts as if nothing has happened (doesn't want to talk about it). At the same time leaving the marriage will have huge financial and practical consequences, not to mention that the kids will be devastated. I think he does love me and the kids, he provides well for the family etc.

I would be interested in hearing views from others who have been through something similar. I thought I would just know in my gut what to do. Btw, he refuses counselling.

Every time you forgave him you effectively said 'I condone your behaviour'. He therefore had no incentive to change his ways and - worse - sees you as some gullible door-mat that he can lie to and cheat on at will. He's acting like nothing has happened because he's assuming, like last time, if he keeps his head down until the dust dies down he can get away with it. Rest assured, his definition of 'love' is not the same as yours.

Yes, you will never be able to trust him. Yes, you will always regard him with suspicion and this will grow over time into resentment and hatred. You will always feel uncomfortable when he's out of the home. Every time you hear his phone bleep you'll be wondering is it her or is it someone like her. It will wear you down.

Cut your losses. Rediscover your self-respect. Financially and practically you will manage the way a lot of people manage and if he truly loves his children, he won't see them go short. See a solicitor and kick the lying toad to the kerb. Good luck

Sorry the thing that stands out totally for me is the word AGAIN.

He did this, denied to you until unable to deny any longer. Promised to cut contact and still went back for more. Plus he refuses counselling.

If you stay with him I think you have to do so with the complete knowledge that he is going to continue to see her and/or anyone else whenever he feels like it.

If he then decides it is right for him no amount of the kids will be devastated or financial and practical reasons will just stop him walking away abandoning you.

I've not been through this, but from what you have written I don't think your "marriage" has ever and will never be his priority.

The facts stack up against him, as when found out he lied and continued the relationship. I would imagine that since your confrontation of them both it was the OW who decided to back off as she didn't want the hassle involved rather than your H ending the relationship.
He refuses conselling, now the dust is settling watch out he will sometime in the future be playing away again.
He has effectively restored the status quo, he has a nice comfy home, he is not "punished" for his indescretions, so when the opportunity arises history will repeat itself.

I have an aquantaince whose marriage has hobbled along like this for 30 years with her husband effectively dipping in and out of the marriage. There is always dramatic regrets and emotional apologies each time he is "discovered"
His wife is a very bitter woman.

My advice is think hard do you think he is really sorry????
I think his behaviour says otherwise

I have been through similar(ish) and got through it. It is inevitable that you will find it very difficult to trust him again and will be having those flash-backs, questioning his whereabouts etc.

However, if you are going to have any chance of getting through that problem, it needs to begin with him talking and taking some responsibility

I don't understand why he is in a position to refuse counselling and refuse to talk about it, if he wants to spend the rest of his life making it up to you, then that would be the first place to start. Doesn't sound good. If you have any chance at all of repairing your r'ship, then he has to agree to talk.

It sounds like he is avoiding the issue, which means not taking full responsibility - so how can you forgive?

Can you link me to your first thread? I can't find it.

Your H is not committed to the marriage I am afraid. There is nothing you can do to change him - you can only change how you deal with his cheating.

You rewarded his cheating by having more sex and spending more time with him, no wonder he thought he has got away with it. I am not sure what advice you were given but the only thing that works in your situation is for him to leave to give you time and space.

He may then come to his senses as the reality of being away from his home comforts and family hits him.

He chose to cheat because he is selfish, weak and entitled - not because of you so being the perfect wife will NOT work.

I have not been through anything similar but it seems quite clear cut to me.
He is not that keen on staying in the marriage, actions speak quite loudly here.
Seems to me that he loves her more than he loves you. Sorry. I would not keep trying to hold this marriage together, but file for divorce on grounds of adultery.

No.

Not in these circumstances.

The main reason being, your husband does not respect you.

What should also be painfully obvious is that someone who has lied to you so much over such a long period and watched you torment yourself throughout, just doesn't love you enough.

He doesn't regret any of this at all and therefore has no interest in preventing something like this happening again. Therefore it will.

I think you've learnt something though.

You've learnt that when an unfaithful person puts the blame on their partner for their infidelity and cites the reason for their behaviour as 'things that were missing from the marriage' it's a lie. That awful period when you were trying to compete to be everything he said he needed, didn't work. It never does work. Because it wasn't about you in the first place. It was about him.

Your husband might regret the consequences to him of getting caught several times, but not the affair itself and not the pain he has put you through.

Get legal advice, then file for divorce on the grounds of adultery unless you want to spend your life living like this and waiting for the next discovery.

no - it's the again, again, again business. every time you took him back and forgave him and started being sexually intimate again with him (i presume) he was again sneaking behind your back and being with this woman. effectively he has had two partners for what - a year now? and has kept up both.

he has been sleeping with and emotionally intimate with both of you for over a year. he has utterly,completely taken the piss out of you repeatedly and lied to you over and over again.

i cannot see how you could ever trust him again because i cannot see how this person could ever BE worthy of trust. a year of this! lie after lie after lie. going from bed to bed and even house to house.

there is no way on earth you can stay with this man and remain a person with any dignity imo. not as in what other people think of you but as in what you will think and know of yourself.

and this is a man who has 3 young children and he has spat on their happiness and security repeatedly please don't tell me he is a good father - good father's do not do this.

No, because his words and promises mean nothing. He doesn't want to be faithful or honest with you and he never will be. Nothing he has said has been true and you will never be able to trust him again.

For me, it would be the lying and deceit as much as the actual infidelity. But I don't know you, him or your situation - you have to be quite pragmatic here I think. List your options, list the consequences of those options and then decide which set of consequences you are most prepared to live with.

It doesn't seem like he's done a damn thing to atone for what he's done. And he obviously doesn't care very much about the hurt he's caused you if all he wants to do is pretend it didn't happen now that your actions have forced his affair to finally finish. He sounds appalling and like he hasn't given any real thought to how you're doing or how any of this was for you.

Forgiveness is for people who have acknowledged their actions were wrong and have tried to make up for them, who express genuine remorse and regret what they have done. It is part of a process and comes from working things through together. This is not happening here. That time when you caught him and he said all the right things and seemed really sorry means nothing if it didn't last more than that brief period. It's actions, not words, you have to look at.

I imagine if you hadn't gone to the lengths you did they'd still be having an affair, even as you asked him to stop and were slowly being crushed by it. And that's what he did do for a long time, isn't it?

I am sorry babe

but whilst I would sometimes forgive a dalliance a few things worry me here

he is acting like it does not matter, and it DOES
he is refusing councelling- even though you must have an out to express yourself

This is not about him being a good dad (and god know I hate to see families break up)- this is about the fact has has treated you like a fucking piece of shit and has no remorse

better advice will come from others but I would be inclined to say "no counselling, no marriage"

Its NOT the b all and end all (counselling) but you need a safe forum to talk and express how you feel, and he is denying you this

I know you have 3 young DCS, but whatever happens stick up for yourself

Sorry, I don't think I could forgive this. It's not the cheating so much as he didn't come forward to you and confess/apologize first (you had to catch him) and he continued the deceit, multiple times, after claiming it had been ended. Best wishes.

God - you are all so right, when I look at what I have written I don't understand how I could let him back in the house. Why I'm I being so weak? I have already sought legal advice. If I file for divorce I'm sure he will try to make me out as the bad person deciding to break up the family when he wanted to stay. I'm not sure how to link to my previous thread but it was under subject 'Should I end my marriage'. As for counselling, I made him go once - whilst he had moved out but he just lied to her too and he says he found the session completely pointless.

Yes it was so hurtful to spend months trying to be the perfect wife, giving lots of sex, attention etc only to find out it wasn't enough! And yes, it was OW saying it was over because of me intervening, he didn't do anything.

I think we is scared and will be miserable if he loses me and the kids but he doesnt think I will actually do it. And he somehow thinks that because he felt so miserable he was justified in having an affair. I'm seeing my counsellor today, I hope it will help. I am so scared and sad.

When it comes to affairs, it's easy for the would-be cheat to construct a situation or feelings that (to them) justifies going off and sleeping with someone else. It often involves treating their partner badly and instigating fights so they believe their partner is the one driving them away when they respond. They can't handle being the bad guy, so it's "My partner pays more attention to the children/ I'm unappreciated/ we always fight/ we don't have sex enough etc etc...I was practically driven to this."

Found your first thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1361174-Should-I-end-my-marriage

I can imagine how scared you feel - but the prospect of spending the rest of your life miserable and bitter must be even more frightening. You are worth so much more. The DC deserve to live in a happy home - what do you think they are learning from your marriage?

This man chose to check out of the marriage and break up his lovely family so please don't feel bad about ending the marriage. It is ALL his doing.

It's no reflection on you that your contribution wasn't 'enough' because it was never about that. Men like your husband don't have affairs because they are in miserable or unsatisfying marriages. They have them because an opportunity comes up and they say 'Why not?' and it's as simple as that. The 'justifications' are history re-written after the event and involved him lying to himself as much as you and the OW.

This is why 'rewarding and competing' never works. You were trying to give him more of what he already had in abundance.

He is scared and miserable for himself, but not for you and the kids. You're probably right he doesn't think you'll follow through - that's because he doesn't respect you. But follow through you must.

As soon as you end this, he will be straight back to the OW. He will lie to her that he tried to make things work with you, but he couldn't forget her or give her up. If she's stupid or blinded by her emotions and lust, she'll believe that too.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1361174-Should-I-end-my-marriage

"Men like your husband don't have affairs because they are in miserable or unsatisfying marriages. "

Actually that's not true. The marriage may have been, in his opinion, miserable or unsatisfying. He's entitled to be as miserable and unsatsified as he wants to be. Anyone is entitled to feel however they want to feel. What is definitely true, however, is that it is not the OP's responsibility or even their perogative to make a miserable man cheerful again.... especially one that clearly doesn't want to be happy married to the OP.

you are NOT weak OP, really

now, more than ever, your self esteem needs to be high and strong

FWIW there are millions of women (and men) that let sex and attention slide when they have small kids. And not all partners cheat! they understand its a blip period, they understand that love is there and that when fatigue levels are less intimacy is easier to recommence xx

xxxx

You have found out that cheating is not about you, but him. :(

Answering your title, you can but you shouldn't (IMO).

Unless you want him to continue cheating and eventually leaving you. You have already pandered to his demands (to be a "better" wife in the hope that he wouldn't cheat).
He should have proven that he could be a better husband, BTW.

And so that you can move on with your life and actually find someone who loves you and deserves you.

I think that's what people who've had affairs or who've been the third party in someone else's relationship like to believe Cogito, so I'd be interested in the OP's account about whether her husband appeared to be desperately unhappy and miserable before he met this particular third party. I'd take it as read that he didn't ever come to the OP to say he was unhappy and at risk before he met this other woman, although he might have done so afterwards in order to justify what he was about to do. What I'm interested in was whether he ever seemed unhappy with the OP and their relationship beforehand.

A lot of people like to think that affairs happen as a response to unhappiness rather than just opportunity, but IME it's never the whole story and often isn't even a factor at all.

To be fair he had complained a few times in the months before about lack of sex but at the time he initiated the affair my youngest DC was only few months old and I had PND so wasn't really in a place to address these issues. I agree that our relationship had been suffering because of the kids but I thought that this was a short phase and things would improve. I would never have dreamed he would do this. What bothers me the most is that he kept seeing her, even though I caught him, even though he knew he was risking his marriage and his family. If I decide to leave him, do I file for divorce straight away or separate first?

I'd file straight away. It's a long process at the best of times and there's no reason not to get things underway. It means the finances and residence issues can be resolved more quickly.

Had he met this woman before he had this 'talk' with you, complaining about a lack of sex when you had just had a baby and had post-natal depression? I'm assuming he didn't meet the woman and start a physical affair with her immediately?