Can and should I forgive his infidelity?

[LivingNightmare]

I posted before Christmas about my marriage (search on my nickname if you like) and I'm afraid things got a lot worse after that. To make a very long story short I'm married since 7 years back, a SAHM, 3 young DCs. DH started affair w someone from his work last spring. Continued over summer after confronted admitted only what I could prove but I knew there was more. He promised to cut all contact, we worked on issues in our marriage (the usual of not enough sex, not enough couple time etc).

Before Xmas I had feeling he was seeing her again (still?) and sure enough found very explicit messages he could not deny. The messages were a few weeks old and he claimed he had already finished. Had awful few weeks away on holiday together and when we got back I asked him to move out for a month to give me some space, whilst both said we wanted to stay in the marriage. When he moved back he was very affectionate and expressive of his love so I felt like we had been given a new start. V quickly though I realised he had not been staying at a friend as he said but with her and I was pretty sure he was still seeing her. It all blew up a month ago by me intercepting a meeting between them - I actually sat down and spoke with OW! We was v remorseful and said he had intended to finish w her but was waiting for right time, being a coward - whatever! Said he was relieved that it was now over and was going to spend rest of his life making it up to me.

I said I would take some time to decide what I want to do. Now that the dust has settled I'm really struggling to come to terms with what he did. I think if it had been a one-off mistake or a short-lived affair I would've been able to forgive. But he continued this despite me catching him out several times, and despite assuring me several times it was over. Is it even possible to forgive such a deceit? How could I ever trust him? Even though the affair is probably over (I think it scared her to meet me in RL!) I continue to feel suspicious, questioning his whereabouts in my mind. And I continue to have flash-backs of when he's lied, pictures of what he was like with her etc. Will I always feel like that? He now acts as if nothing has happened (doesn't want to talk about it). At the same time leaving the marriage will have huge financial and practical consequences, not to mention that the kids will be devastated. I think he does love me and the kids, he provides well for the family etc.

I would be interested in hearing views from others who have been through something similar. I thought I would just know in my gut what to do. Btw, he refuses counselling.

just a thought about your mum - she might be over compensating the other way - as in not wanting to influence you into having a life like her (even if she thinks it would be best to leave him personally) and so feeling obligated to make all the right supportive noises about the marriage itms. she may not want to be the one who influences you into taking on what was a hard life for her.

Good morning everyone. Did not sleep so well but only partly due to my marriage break-down, DC3 kept waking me up. Hatty and Swallowed, you are both making valid points re my mum. She says she personally would like to strangle DH but doesn't want me to end up struggling alone and wants to give me another perspective. It really pisses me off though when she tells me I should try to trust him as I would only feel worse if I mistrust him. Time and time again he has proved he can't be trusted and if I've learned anything this past year it is that I can't live a lie.

i think it's what my gut said then LN - that she doesn't want to be responsible for you having a life like hers so is playing devil's advocate the other way. maybe say to her i know you don't want to influence me wrong mum and i know you don't want me to have a hard life but i think i need your support in leaving him now, i know it will be hard on my own but i can't live a lie and put up with this anymore so please support me now my decision is made.

kind of thing. lets her off the hook about it being her responsibility (because you've made the decision and told her) and makes clear that you need her support?

I'm sure she'll learn to respect your decision in time. Frustrating but given her history, she maybe doesn't see it as black and white as others.

I would possibly have forgiven him but the continued lying and general disrespect in continuing it would have changed my mind. He had his chances.

I think you are doing the right thing splitting. Best of luck to you.

You are doing absolutely the right thing by splitting. He has overstepped crashed through every possible boundary. There is no way you could build a relationship now based on your forgiveness.

Indeed, if he genuinely loves and respects you he will over the next few years demonstrate this in a way not possible when you are being a door mat. It is not unheard of for relationships to resume you know! I am not advocating waiting for this sorry specimen of a man at all (personally I reckon you deserve better) but explaining to your mother that you have to rebuild your own confidence before anything else might promote more support?

Divorce like marriage is an economic deal. Love can be independent (far more independent than you would want sometimes!).

Your mum is right - single parenting is a hard life but with support (from her?) itis definitely preferable to being walked over.

I've said it before, but lots of your mums generation still believe that any man is better than none.

single parenting is not a hard life compared to living with a man who cheats on you, lies to you, is in and out of the home etc. it really isn't. it can actually be a really nice life if you're prepared to make it so. sure it's hard - what isn't? adult life is tough sometimes, lots of responsibility etc. you already have children - you're a mum whatever happens so life will be challenging. now you have the choice live with a cheating liar or live in your own little place and have it as you want it and know it is as secure, peaceful, loving, stable, interesting, whatever as you make it.

is there a way back into your old profession? could be exciting times ahead if you grasp the nettle or whatever the saying is

and yes you are young, attractive and capable - life does not end and you do not end with the end of one relationship. your whole life is ahead of you. not saying it will be easy to get through this period but there really is every opportunity for life to go on to be good and to make what you want from it.

we all make mistakes, we all go down dead end alleyways and have to retrace our steps, we all go on big detours that we thought were the right road and then have to find a new route. it can be terrifying, it can be exciting.

he's let you down. you gave your all to this road and you can hold your head up as to how you've conducted yourself and tried your best. it's him, he's blown it, not you. now you deserve to move on and open the door to new possibilities for happiness and fulfillment.

sorry if i'm sounding like a hallmark card - not sure where this optimism is coming from of a rainy friday morning i'm a single mum by the way and my child is 5 and life is starting up again and i'm getting a bit of that world is my oyster feeling back.

The thing about trust is you can't make yourself do it. Our wonderful survival instincts as human beings always kick in and thank goodness for that. So what your mum proposes is that you ignore those instincts and live a lie. She's not thinking of the psychological damage that will do to you and she's also under-estimating just how much you've already been damaged by a whole year of this misery.

Swallowed is right that being single is infinitely preferable to the life you've had during that year.

I personally think your life got worse the moment he met the OW, whenever that was. Do you actually know when?

Hello living how are you today? I think you are getting some really wise advice on here, lots of strong women onboard it is so heartening. Mumsnet was my lifeline when my life went upside down a year and a half ago. I had gone back to my job 3 days a week from a mat leave in august 2010. Found out my husband's double life in the October. In one way my job helped me along, I'm a teacher and literally I'd rush the 3 dc to childcare in the morning, weep on my journey to school, splash my face with water and have a mask back on my face for my pupils and kids at 9am. Only my boss and two nice colleagues knew about my hellish homelife! Anyway I got ready to move back home near my family in Ireland step by step and did so the following march. I am not working now but am looking for work and hope to get supply by September. I was sorry to leave my job but know I will get another one. It takes a while to get your serenity back but it will come one day at a time. There is a lot of legalities and practical things to sort out when you have kids and again I think this helps to shift the focus from your heartbreak.
Raising kids single or not is hard work and it is hard to get time to nip out even for a drink or groceries even in the evening but you get there and you keep your integrity. I cherish the peace in our home so much now.
As for love I know it will find me again and will put my illusion of a loving relationship with my x completely in the shade.
Take care of you and your dc you will all be fine
x

As swallowed said you gave it your all now it is time to hold your head up and walk away. I had actually given my x a 2nd chance he had been v irresponsible in the past but to my knowledge hadn't cheated so when I found out that infidelity was his way of thanking me I thought this time I have earned the right to walk away. First time I had doubted myself, listened to him telling me that our life was so boring blahblah this time I knew for sure nothing I could ever do would change the situation.

Living, phone OW up and ask her to get him out of your house.

I too have gone through this and unfortunately your H is not good for your mental health. Its all about him and you and your thoughts and your feelings do not feature at all. This will crush you.

It is absolutely devastating when the person you thought cared about you turns out to be the person who sticks the knife in your back - and doesn't want to take any responsibility.

But that is the reality. You will be better off w/out him. (PS also SAHM trying to get back on my feet). But I know he will never change, and so have given up all attempts to 'reach' him, 'make him see'. Waste of time, waste of breath. Focus on you, know you will get through this, and you will be happier without him and his seflish disregard dragging you down.

He sounds like an utter bullshitter. Read your OP back. You know what you have to do.

I'm feeling sort of ok today, had lunch with a nice friend and spending some quality time with DC3 who is adorable right now. Dreading tonight though as DH and I are supposed to talk. He is extremely hard to talk to and this has been a way of him keeping the control in our marriage. Whenever I want to discuss something he would either get angry or very defensive or simply refuse to answer. A lot of times this has made me very reluctant to bring anything up. But now that I'm not trying to keep the marriage together I hope I will be strong enough to tell him exactly what I feel.

Maybee - it is nice to hear you have built a new life for yourself and your DCs. Gives me some hope!I wish I had a job too, not only for financial reasons but also so that I would've had an identity outside home and family. I've been looking for a part time job for a while but no luck so far. UK is not my home country although I've been here 12 years. One thought would be to move back to my home country, it would be cheaper to live there and there is more support for single parents. However, my life and friends are here and it would be a major upheaval for me and the DCs. Also, DH would need to agree to us moving (or I need a court order). We'll see...

Hatty - no I don't actually know when he first started the affair but I have reason to believe at least as early as beginning of April. So he continued it for almost a year. He hasn't admitted this and also claims he finished the affair several times - not sure if that's true and even if it is it's almost worse as he's so weak and what's to say he won't start seeing her again?

Swallowed - that was an inspirational post. I'm longing for some peace and harmony, all of this had made me so drained emotionally. I was on my own with the kids all of last week and it was nice, a relief.

My mum has said that she will of course support me whatever I decide to do - she lives abroad though.

LivingNightmare, I have been cheated on but not nearly to the same scale and don't have any children so can't offer any real advice. But I just wanted to say, I hope you stay strong. He does not deserve you. You will be so much better off without him - you can regain some self respect, you can find someone who appreciates you, or if you don't, you can be happy by yourself. Please
I don't think your dreams and hopes for your family have been 'shattered'. You will find new dreams, paint a different picture, hope for different things. He's fucked up ONE version of how your life could have been and he's shattered that one picture. That won't come back. But you will have a new picture, a lovely one with you and your DCs, where you are secure and happy, and maybe one day someone else to share your life with, who knows. But you really do not need this low-life shitty man in your life.

He is extremely hard to talk to and this has been a way of him keeping the control in our marriage. Whenever I want to discuss something he would either get angry or very defensive or simply refuse to answer. A lot of times this has made me very reluctant to bring anything up. But now that I'm not trying to keep the marriage together I hope I will be strong enough to tell him exactly what I feel.

You are right this is what the problem is, and it hasn't been solved by him sticking his dick into OW. In other words, this isn't you it's him.

But don't hold out any hope that he will suddenly 'change'. He won't. HE WILL NOT HEAR YOU.

As for the breaking up and getting back together again? It is part of the affair dynamic and is actually necessary for it to continue. Affairs always have a pattern of 'we must end this/no no no I can't live without you, [together] this is bigger than both of us, we have to succumb.

It's drama, and prolonged contact takes the shine of the heady heady. I mean, we wouldn't want a spot of reality (that he is a selfish shit, that she picks her spots) to get in the way of the beautiful, beautiful forbidden love, would we now?

it's worth bearing in mind that there are people who are utterly incapable of being honest with themselves let alone anyone else. you can't actually change or take responsibility for your actions or yourself if you are incapable of looking at yourself and others honestly. that may be him.

Living, I couldn't communicate with my x about anything negative that needed addressing ever. He would often run out of the house screaming or put his headphones in. But oh boy could he be nice, agree with everything I said even make me feel lucky to be in the same room as him so sometimes just to make the nice come back I would back down, butter him up almost til I woke up one day to the fact that he will always do what he wants regardless of me and the boys. As for honesty he still lies constantly ( i have to see him as he still sees the dc often) tells the silliest most pointless fibs, my 9yr old could do better so now I just stare and wonder who on earth he is and what sort of bizarre life goes on in his head and heart. We were together for 13 years he is actually a rather fascinating case study!
Anyway i would like a job for exactly the same reasons you mention though since I don't have one yet I'm quite enjoying my days with the dc. My house move was still within the UK so pretty straightforward although I'd been away 13 yrs and was sorry to leave some friends behind.
Anyway you don't have to rush big decisions like where to live yet. Take it a day at a time but stick to your guns and don't even expect him to understand how you feel, just focus on what you have decided is best for you and dc and tell him that. Good luck with it.
What age are your dc?

Oh dear god I did it. I told him everything I have been feeling and thinking. I didn't say I wanted to separate/divorce initially but I guess that was the conclusion. He said there was nothing to say as I had clearly made up my mind. He got very angry, packed some stuff and left. Before he left he said (as I predicted) that I was going to have to live with myself for kicking him out altough he wanted to stay and try. Good luck trying to explain that to the kids.

He also made comments like that I didn't want him around the kids. I told him I wasn't kicking him out, he could sleep in the spare room and that I would never prevent him from seeing the kids. He hit a piece of furniture and slammed the door, I've never seen him so angry. I guess he thought he was in the clear as I had let him stay for a month since the last time I caught him.

I'm so scared. What have I done? I think I'm doing the right thing but it's so hard. Part of me still loves him. I wish none of this had ever happened.

Thanks Maybee. Your X sounds a lot like my DH, can be really charming but also emotionally totally screwed up. He has also been prone to lying about other things, if it suits him/is easier. My DCs are 16m, 4 and 6 yrs. What do I tell them tomorrow when daddy is not there? Mind you, he works and travels so much during the week I pretty much a single mum so they're used to him being away.

Okay let me tell you how a man who loved you would have behaved.

He would have been sad, not angry. Later, he would have been angry with himself, not you.

He would have told you that he understood. He would have made the whole thing a little easier for you. He would have told you that he loved you and always would and that he would do anything to fight for you, but understood that right now, you needed some space and distance.

He would have volunteered to tell the kids himself and in front of you, why your marriage is over and offered to take full responsibility for the hurt he has caused all of you. He would have apologised to them and explained that his behaviour had given you no choice.

Then he would have left quietly and promised himself that he would spend the rest of his life trying to make up for the hurt he had caused, even if he never got you back.

Absolutely, you did the right thing. His behaviour tonight tells you everything you need to know.

Its so clear you've done the right thing yes it is hard and painful but you've liberated yourself from a life of anguish and mental torture. Hatty's post makes me sad as that was the reaction I had hoped for from my x too. Instead our finale couldn't have been uglier.
The kids will be ok you don't need to explain yet take your time and be kind to yourself.
Thinking of you x

god he's unbelievably delluded isn't he? he had a year long affair, was forgiven and believed time and again when he said it was over only to be discovered still seeing her repeatedly and he thinks (or thinks he can make you think perhaps more accurately) it's your fault the relationship is over?!?!?!

you know why he's so angry - he's had both of you dangling for a year now both of you have told him to jog on. as he rightly deserves.

So this morning DH starts texing me saying he loves me, loves the kids, wants me back, is so sorry for what he has done, knows he has done wrong, can I please give it some more time etc. I am quite surprised as this is not like him at all, he is not one to beg or even try to get someone to change their mind, he's way too proud. Just shows he never took me or my feelings seriously before. I told him we need to be separated. He said he respected that - he even said he would be willing to go to counselling. Completely different tone from last night.

I don't know - is he just scared and will say anything?