Is this normal behaviour or does DH have anger issues?

[reastie]

I feel really . DH has always had outbursts of aggression/anger when under stress or really annoyed. These used to be very rare (unless he hid them from me unknowingly) and he'd usually just throw something across the room or shout to himself a bit and then it was all over and he was fine again. They always have upset me and DH knows this but he has always said just to ignore him and couldn't understand why I found it distressing (I'm a sensitive soul). He had got to the point of knowing when he was close to such an outburst and would say something to me about he was leaving the room as he was getting cross and not to worry it wasn't that he was cross at me and would then go upstairs and punch the door or some such

Since we've had dd (she is one) I believe these outbursts to be more frequent. Today I've felt really upset. He was looking after DD downstairs while I was upstairs and she was crying and distressed (not sure why). DH was already in a mood, probably because he tried to do some DIY which went wrong, or just as he had to do DIY which he hates and I had seen him break a bird feeder in the garden earlier in anger as he couldn't get it down to refill it (if he can't do or get something like that he often will just smash it in frustration), anyway, after a while of DD crying alot DH screamed at DD, when I say screamed, he really shouted at her very aggressively. I'm not sure what he said and it was quite short, but it really scared me that he would take out his anger on her like that and that she had done nothing wrong she was just upset. He went all surly afterwards.

I told DH twice this afternoon how upset I was by this incident. First time he grunted and walked away from me hoping that would be that and I wouldn't mention it again and second time he just joked 'yes that wasn't very good was it'. He doesn't seem to want to talk about it at all. I know he must know it wasn't good and I don't want to push the issue but I am upset by it.

The thing that worries me in addition to this is that I've noticed increasingly I've started to throw things/kick things when I'm annoyed, like his behaviour is rubbing off on me. I don't want to be like this and I don't want DD growing up thinking this is OK. But, I don't know if DH has an actual problem or not. I've mentioned to him before I think he may have an anger management problem and he's just said we all have our issues (I have a few psychological issues including having had pnd and also a long standing battle with emetophobia which really does rule my life) and hinted I'm not perfect so I can't talk. The thing is, I acknowledge I have a problem and have had professional help to try to help myself over the years.

Does this sound like I'm just being a status patheticus and DH is just a grumpy old man or should I try to talk to him about getting help? Any advice? Apologies for essay

Ok, throwing/breaking things is not normal!

My dh has a short temper, but he does not ever throw anything. He just says 'Fucking hell' or something of the same equivilant and its gone, he is happy again! He just has to get it out iyswim.

If he threw anything i would be worried and it would scare me, especially with a lo around!

I should also add that I have been with dh for 8 years and I now find myself doing the same, but with child friendly swear words. It does rub off.

It does help to get it out straight away. Before I was a sit and stew person, and would end up getting more wound up. But throwing things is compleatly un necessarie!

Maybe I should be more careful with how I explain. He does throw things but not that often and usually to the floor, never at me or DD. He has broken a few things that we've had to buy replacements as they were fine and then he threw them on the floor and then they wern't, although for the life of me I can't think what they were so they couldn't have been very important. Don't get me wrong, he doesn't go around throwing plates at me or anything , but still it's useful to have someone tell me throwing and breaking stuff isn't normal. MIL always says the men in his family are just grumpy, which just IMO accepts his behaviour as normal for him to proceed as he always has. I don't believe it's a genetic thing, I think he must have been bought up to think that this is normal way to behave. It really does scare me when he gets cross though, even though I know logically he's not going to hurt DD or me. It usually follows the pattern of DH shouts and swears aggressively for a minute, usually at an inane object which won't do as he says (like a phone or computer), he might kick or throw said item. This gets me upset and I leave the room and cry. Then DH feels fine as he's got it out of his system and carries on as normal leaving me crying from being upset at his outburst. He usually isn't even aware he has upset me and when he does he just tells me it's not at me so I shouldn't get upset

It's common but not normal, IYSWIM. And the more you get in the habit of reacting to small stresses like this, the more you feel justified in doing it, because you get a momentary feeling of relief. I would really try and get him to see that doing this in front of other people, especially a small child, is frightening and potentially damaging to them. As she becomes older, he'll need to be model of how you cope with your negative emotions, not a tantrummer along with her......

I would wonder if he is becoming depressed. Angry outbursts and irritability can be an early sign.

... although the fact he's always been like this suggests it's just a behaviour he's been allowed to get away with. When you have children you have to more of an adult - you have to be a buffer and for their emotions. If he can't do that, he'll damage her, and you

I was the same as you before I got used to dh's outbursts.

I got tense because of the sudden 'For fucks sake' because he had stubbed his toe , but he explained its just hos way of getting it out and I do see what he means. Two seconds later he is laughing again :)

I would not have ever got used to things being broken etc , whether it was a regular thing or not. I don't even think I would have been happy with a miniute or two of shouting and swearing, even if it was aimed at a phone. Dh's outburst's are over in seconds!

I agree, if he has been bought up with the same behaviour then he probably doesn't realise that it is upsetting for someone. Especially if his behaviour is being excused as 'just grumpy, it runs in the family'

Can you have a good talk and explain how you feel and that you don't want you dd growing up thinking its acceptable?
If he doesn't know how badly it affects you he is unlikely to change his behaviour at all!

interesting garhyb . He has always been like this but I do think it's got worse since DD, it may be the pressure of it all, it may be depression (although hadn't considered this before), sometimes I think it's as he is unhappy in his relationship with me as I've put on alot of weight since being pg and feel very unconfident about this. He wanted children though, so it's not like he is trapped in a life he didn't want.....

bonkey I think you're right with everything you say. I have spoken to him previously about this and told him how much it upsets me but he can't understand why and has never thought he should or needs to change. He thinks I have the problem as I shouldn't get upset by it. It's only now it's getting more frequent that I feel so . It would be rare that a week went by that he hasn't made me cry, although this is mainly just shouting and swearing and general aggressive atmosphere around him not him breaking stuff.

reastie - I'm worried you are taking responsibility for this. He might be unhappy, and he's surely more stressed than before DCs and more tired, but ultimately he's feeling himself justified in lashing out, whereas you've reacted to your problems in far less destructive ways.

I'd maybe want to ask him outright how he is feeling, and if he's able to show some insight into how his behaviour affects you, then you've got somewhere to start.

Xpost. I hope some more experienced posters come along. Experienced in Emotional Abuse - because that's what I'm worried about here. The denial of a problem and blaming you. Doesn't sound at all good.

Its not a matter of whether he thinks he should change, its a case of, it upsets you so he should make a effort to change.

He is swapping it around saying that you have the problem, not him. Its not right that he is not willing at all to look at the way he behaves!

I'm worried that he displays ANY behaviour that makes you cry once a week, and doesn't think that your obvious distress is a reason to reign it in. If you were making him cry that often wouldn't you seriously think how you could avoid upsetting the man you love?

Also his small daughter is going to understand his anger even less than you are. My mother has rage outbreaks sometimes (much less severe and frequent than these sound) and while I was scared but ok, my brother was terrified and remains so if he witnesses it.

My concern is that either a) he has been brought up to think that losing control like this is his prerogative no matter what the effect on others or b) he wants you and your daughter to witness his anger and strength (power to break things) in order to keep you in a state of slight anxiety/fear?

Couple of questions - does he have a job, and if so does he display similar behaviours there? If other people are present at your house does he express anger in the same way, or a different way?

I do this sometimes.

It's not right.

I grew up thinking shouting was normal thanks to my parents. You need to show him how much damage it does to the children and you. My brother will alternate between VERY aggressive to normal and back again in less than a minute if you know the right buttons to push. I'm not that bad, but I can snap the head off people sometimes.

If you want your child growing up like my brother (trust me, you don't) then carry on as you are.

gaf tbh I may be outwardly less destructive in how I deal with things but I'm no better in a way - I hold everything in until it eats away at me and then have emotional outbursts (as in crying alot) when I can't keep it in anymore, so I'm not exactly showing a healthy emotional response

elephant in fairness he often doesn't know he's made me cry. I hide in the kitchen looking busy cleaning wiping away the tears and saying I'm fine. I genuinely don't think he realises. I don't think it's a power thing, I think it's just needing to get it out of his system and this is what he's always done and been allowed to do as he grew up. He is otherwise a very quiet, shy, placid person though. He does have a job, he runs his own small business employing 2 people. His employees arn't the brightest buttons (one has mental problem) and I get the impression he is short and abrupt with them and gets frustrated with them and IMO speaks to them quite rudely in his tone, but not that I hve known has he ever got angry with them. I've also never seen him behave like this in front of other people. I've never known him very angry in front of other people tbh. Actually, thinking about it, I think he once got annoyed with my Dad about something or other and he just walked off and left my Dad as he said he was too annoyed to deal with it or carry on as 'normal'. That doesn't sound very good does it?

21yearold he can switch from very cross to normal after he's thrown something/shouted a bit, it's shocking.

So - what can I actively do to help other than tell him how much it upsets me?

OK, had to come back on. I spoke to `dh about this half an hour ago. I said what bonkey said about he shoud want to change if it upsets me so much. He just said he knows it's wrong but didn't offer to change, he's resigned that he can do nothing about it or doesn't perceive it as an issue i think. I told him I was worried about DD thinking this was acceptable behaviour and asked if his parents behaved the same way. He refused to answer and just said his dad has 'a temper' (I take this as a yes he does). He didn't really say anything else, just went to bed leaving me obviously upset, I've been crying for the past half hour and have just calmed down enough to write. He tried to put it back to me and my issues, saying I'm not perfect either. He also said he shouted at dd (although he recognises inexcusable) because apparently I had got him in a bad mood but he couldn't remember why. I genuinely have no idea what I did to annoy him. I've been a bit lazier than usual today but it's as I drove nearly 300 miles yesterday and my granny is dying of cancer and is expected to die at any minute quite literally so I needed a restful day but ended out cleaning alot just to avoid dh as he was in a mood or ignoring me. After we spoke this evening I sat on my own and started thinking things like maybe if I was slimmer/did a better job cleaning the house/did more with dd etc etc then things would be better. Then I made myself stop after reading some posts on here about it not being me to blame. I don't know what to do now, I know I'll end out crying myself to sleep and I know DH will be normal like nothing has happened in the morning.

I hope you are ok! Its sounds like you have a lot on your plate!

It is NOT your fault, please remember that! Its not fair of him to keep switching the blame onto you when it is his problem.

Yes maybe his dad had a temper, but it does not mean that he has to follow in his footsteps! My dad is a alcoholic, its doesn't mean I am too! In fact I go out of my way to make sure that I don't have to much to drink to often because of that very reason!

Him shouting at dd, because 'you annoyed him' is compleatly unacceptable!!

Have you mentioned counselling to him? It sounds to me like he needs help accepting responsibility for his actions, and possibly someone to talk through his childhood to.

Of course your not perfect, no one is. Everyone has their problems but he has absolutley no right to be making you feel like this!

Tbh he sounds like a selfish twat going to bed and leaving you upset and not making any effort to at least talk about trying to resolve the issues.

Can I ask a question?

Take away his impulsive temper, would you be happy as a couple? Or are there other issues between you?

It was your fault he screamed at dd?

No way.

He has to learn to control himself.

No nothing you do will change this only he can change.
But you could be more explicit each time and let him know how you feel don't cry to yourself.

Thing is up to now no one been hurt by him throwing things but as dd grows she could easily get In the way of a flying object. And that could injure or kill a toddler.

And he's not being supportive as your granny dies is he ?

Men love fixing things, so if he has an issue he feels he can't fix he'll minimise it. Because otherwise he's a failure. Don't ask me how I know....

Unfortunately most anger management seems to be aimed at people with "proper" issues (my brother) and not people that have a shout every now and then (me, your hubby by the sounds of things). If anyone knows of anything aimed at those on the mild end of the spectrum, I'd love to hear about it, as my current tactic is just make sure it doesn't get worse, which isn't ideal.

The first question I would ask is does he behave this way in any other situation?

Has he ever thrown something across the room at work? Screamed at the doctor?

If the answer is no, my next question would be how is it that he can control himself in all other situations - except this one.

You can't make someone change if they don't want to. You can give them every opportunity to change, you can support them if they are trying to change - but if they won't, then you can't control that.

You can only control what you choose to do in response to it.

You are not responsible for his actions. No matter how he cleverly manages to twist things round so it is somehow your fault, it isn't.
He is in full control of how he chooses to behave. You don't make him do anything.

Just remember that.

I grew up in atmosphere like this

My father was an inadequate man who never learned to cope with the small frustrations in life

During my childhood he embarassed me many times by making a fool of himself in the street. He would take a hammer to the car if it wouldn't start in front of the neighbours. He would hit himself and call himself a bastard in front of my friends. He once smashed a record player to smithereens when it woudn't play. I got a hard time because of it (not surprisingly)

My mother made excuses for him for years. He belittled and verbally abused her all through my formative years, then he started on me. She left him once or twice, but always went back to the empty promises to change.

She is still with him (after 40+ years). I don't have a relationship with him, and a strained one with her. I can have no respect for her. He still treats her like a second class citizen, so she became one.

Is this the way you see your future ?

How old is he?

My DH was a bit like this when we first met and after DD1 was born but he has completly mellowed with age.

If anything I'm the sweary fuckity fuck fucker these days

It's not normal.
It's not right.
It's not fair.

You have to tell him that it's unacceptable for you to be subjected to it any longer and it's completely unacceptable for your DD to have to live with it - so she wont be. Either he gets help or he leaves.

Well, that's what I'd do anyway.

Oh and it is HIS problem, not yours. Don't you dare start blaming yourself for his inability to control his temper. No matter what you are/do/say - HE is the only one who can control HIS temper & actions.

I expect you are right and that it has got worse since you had DD - there is more pressure, less sleep, more 'jobs', less money... but that's the same for pretty much most people... it's life.

The fact that he said he shouted at DD because you made him cross earlier would scare me actually tbh. Most of us have shouted at a child at one time or another