Is this normal behaviour or does DH have anger issues?

[reastie]

I feel really . DH has always had outbursts of aggression/anger when under stress or really annoyed. These used to be very rare (unless he hid them from me unknowingly) and he'd usually just throw something across the room or shout to himself a bit and then it was all over and he was fine again. They always have upset me and DH knows this but he has always said just to ignore him and couldn't understand why I found it distressing (I'm a sensitive soul). He had got to the point of knowing when he was close to such an outburst and would say something to me about he was leaving the room as he was getting cross and not to worry it wasn't that he was cross at me and would then go upstairs and punch the door or some such

Since we've had dd (she is one) I believe these outbursts to be more frequent. Today I've felt really upset. He was looking after DD downstairs while I was upstairs and she was crying and distressed (not sure why). DH was already in a mood, probably because he tried to do some DIY which went wrong, or just as he had to do DIY which he hates and I had seen him break a bird feeder in the garden earlier in anger as he couldn't get it down to refill it (if he can't do or get something like that he often will just smash it in frustration), anyway, after a while of DD crying alot DH screamed at DD, when I say screamed, he really shouted at her very aggressively. I'm not sure what he said and it was quite short, but it really scared me that he would take out his anger on her like that and that she had done nothing wrong she was just upset. He went all surly afterwards.

I told DH twice this afternoon how upset I was by this incident. First time he grunted and walked away from me hoping that would be that and I wouldn't mention it again and second time he just joked 'yes that wasn't very good was it'. He doesn't seem to want to talk about it at all. I know he must know it wasn't good and I don't want to push the issue but I am upset by it.

The thing that worries me in addition to this is that I've noticed increasingly I've started to throw things/kick things when I'm annoyed, like his behaviour is rubbing off on me. I don't want to be like this and I don't want DD growing up thinking this is OK. But, I don't know if DH has an actual problem or not. I've mentioned to him before I think he may have an anger management problem and he's just said we all have our issues (I have a few psychological issues including having had pnd and also a long standing battle with emetophobia which really does rule my life) and hinted I'm not perfect so I can't talk. The thing is, I acknowledge I have a problem and have had professional help to try to help myself over the years.

Does this sound like I'm just being a status patheticus and DH is just a grumpy old man or should I try to talk to him about getting help? Any advice? Apologies for essay

My ex h was like this. When we first started dating I was incredibly inexperienced and naive; and was utterly shocked when he punched walls / broke or threw things in anger.

These were only occasionally sporadic outbursts. But they really unsettled / frightened me. I didn't know why I was unhappy or frightened with this - no-one had actually been hurt - and he seemed fine afterwards; the event never mentioned again.

But... those incidents were not just displays of uncontrollable male aggression. He didn't act out in the street - just in front of friends / relatives he felt comfortable with. And, actually in retrospect he never actually broke anything he really cared about - just things that didn't matter or belonged to someone else (me).

It wasn't that long after he became physically violent too, incredibly controlling and very emotionally abusive hence I separated from him [waves enthusiastically at SGB and AF thank you for your support last year].

Absolutely not intending to suggest that your h will become physically abusive / controlling at all; but there is a link between aggressive behaviour / acting out / and abuse; nothing may harm or hit you but even occasional outbursts are designed to intimidate - the fist that hits the drywall may not hit you but let you know that it could...

As your h is not a toddler; I assume he has reasonable control over his emotions and can therefore cope with the normal stresses and strains of married life with a young child; and if he feels he cannot then he needs to get help.

I really, really wish that I had picked up my h the first time that he acted out aggressively; walked away etc. Although in hindsight my h was a complete dick anyway in all aspects of married life so meh; but your h may not be. He has an opportunity to change. This is his problem - he needs to take responsibility for it. For you and your little DD's sake - you shouldn't have to be afraid or tiptoe on eggshells in your own home where you should feel secure and your DD figure out how relationships work.

Good luck reastie I hope he faces up to this

Reastie my darling, I understand the other posters point of view but I do not think your dh is being abusive, but I do think he needs a good talking to about how his behaviour is not acceptable. I do feel scared when my dh looses his temper,not often, abd only the occasional swear word but with my upbringing I find any kind of anger scary. I don't believe you are scared for you or A but could you explain how his anger makes you feel.

Please do not ever think any of this is your fault. From what I know of you I think you are duh a thoughtful, caring person that you would put the blame on yourself because it's easier the thinking your dh could be in the wrong.

If your home life is happy in every other way then your doing pretty well. Everyone has problems in there marriages but we work through them. Would dh have counselling for his anger?

Pm if you need to.

I have a very short temper and am of the 'better out than in' school of thought so will get angry and then be fine. I'm also quite sweary (though I don't throw/break things). I do my best to keep my temper obviously and I'm always embarrassed if I do have a 'tantrum' as, let's face it, it's pretty unattractive for an adult. I know I lose my temper more in front of DH than anyone else (not at him though-he's a remarkably chilled person and almost never annoys me!) and I know that's not ok-I think it's because I know he won't judge me for it, while I'd never shout/swear in public. I don't think I'm emotionally abusing him because of this though. I'm not proud of it and I do work on it. It's definitely worse when I'm stressed or feeling low.

I think it's hard on an Internet forum to get a true measure of someone's relationship or character. If you're concerned it could be emotional abuse I would get in touch with a professional body/charity to talk it over but if your instinct says it's not I would trust it.

Also, if you said to your DH 'Did you know that when you behave like that it could be construed as emotional abuse?' would he be shocked enough to take a long hard look at himself? I am not abusive but I have been pretty horrified, reading this, to think that people might assume I am if they judged me purely based on this thread. And abuse is partly dependant on the victim's perception I think-if you are scared then in one sense you have been abused, regardless of whether your DH intended to scare you, and he has to take responsibility for that.

Using foul language more often in conversation to emphasise a point is not abusive even though the OP has asked him not to use such language as it upsets her?. Has he listened to her on this matter, no and he continues to use such language. At the very least he is showing complete disregard for your feelings reastie and you ignore this or minimise it at further risk to your emotional health and wellbeing.

He keeps upsetting you and you keep minimising it out of denial (a pwerful force this) and a false sense of shame i.e you thinking its all your fault he is like this. You also write that your PILs relationship is not totally dissimilar; your H learnt a lot of damaging crap from them as well.

Its not so much about anger management either as he can control his aggression and language around others. Reastie and by turn her child is getting the full force of his ill treatment now and it will not stop just because she talks to him more. She has tried talking to him and he does not listen because he does not care.

Why is he doing this, well because he can.

You have yourself said reastie that you do not want your DD growing up thinking this is okay. So why is it ok for you, your child is learning from the two of you about relationships and both of you are imparting damaging lessons to her.

Really, people think that someone who is scaring their partner, not acknowledging it, continuing to do it despite being asked not to, is intimidating them with violent and aggressive outbursts, is not abusive. What exactly does it take for them to become abusive? Perhaps one of those objects he is flinging around to hit the OP or her child?

No wonder women stay in abusive relationships. They are being normalized and minimised all the time by our peers.

Loving someone never involves intimidation, scare tactics or violence.

This man is not very nice. If he was deliberately breaking glasses in a pub or threw something down on a train or a park or another public place you would think that person was violent and had a problem. Why is it any different because he does it in his home, with those he loves (or purports to love) nearby?

I don't know if the last post was directed at me but I didn't say he's not abusive, I said she should seek expert opinion, and also that if he's scaring her then that is a form of abuse whether he intends it or not.

It wasn't directed at you Kaloo and I don't know why you think we would think you were abusive. Are you intimidating your partner/children? Have they told you that you are scaring them and you have ignored them? Do they alter their behaviour to avoid your outbursts of temper?

But I do think the OP has given plenty of information which points at abuse. And I don't think she needs "expert" opinion about whether it is abuse given that most experts wouldn't recognise an abusive relationship if it jumped up and hit them in the face.

The bottom line is the OP is unhappy. This is caused by her husband and he is doing nothing to change his behaviour, in fact it appears to be escalating, which is worrying.

Erm, I don't think I'm abusive! I think we're talking at cross purposes here! Fundamentally I agree that the OP should seek some help.

Reastie, this is so tough and I agree with parts of almost everyone's posts on here.

I am NOT condoning his behaviour for one second; it is completely wrong to lose your temper in such a way that it has this kind of impact on people you love. I know he loves you and A and wouldn't want to jeopardize your marriage but that is what he is doing. The first year or so of having a baby tests your relationship more than anything (I should know!) but it is not past the point of reconciliation.

PND is a well recognised (though poorly under diagnosed) condition and I do believe that men can suffer from a variation of this which may be what has exacerbated his behaviour. It is NOT you, not your phobia, not your weight, and certainly not your needing a break from him when he's moody. I beg you to believe this.

As you know, OH and I came to breaking point last November and I gave him an ultimatum that either he sought help or we couldn't continue as a couple. It was the hardest thing I have ever done and took every ounce of strength I had but I had to do it for B and me. Because he knew I was serious he got help, proper professional help and although we've had a few blips here and there our relationship has become more solid as a result.

The point I'm trying to make is that when you talk to him about how his behaviour is impacting on your and A's well being, he needs to know that you are serious and that he cannot pass it off. It is his responsibility to do something to help himself and whilst you can be there to offer support, he has to do the work. Every time my OH said, I'm doing this (seeing a counsellor) for 'you', I reminded him that it was not for me; it was because of his problem and it was his responsibility to sort it.

Could you talk to your mum about arranging some counselling for him? She would have the right contacts and could also be very helpful for you. I feel for you so much as it is such a horrible place to be but it is time to get tough and think about how you want your life to be. I am always here for you and hope this doesn't sound too judgey, I really want to help.

he needs to talk to someone about counselling.
because he wants to change.

op could ask her mum about counsellin for herself.

notjustaslap I am glad you are away froom that man x

OP keep this thread somewhere you can reread it if/when you need to in the future.

If you want to post again, there will still be plenty of MNers around to support and advise you.

I have been mulling over your comments all day today. I've come to the conclusion it is hard to judge my marriage on what I've said. I haven't mentioned how he always baths DD and gives her her dinner, that he gets up at night as I felt like I was going to have a breakdown from lack of sleep when DD wakes, he goes along with alot of what I want to do and does his best for our family. We are generally happy. I think DH just find anything to do with emotions difficult - he can't read emotions from other people well, isn't always very thoughtful and can't sort his emotions out effectively. This of course is not an excuse for someone to be abusive to another person, but I think my bottling up is just making this worse on myself as he may not realise fully how often and how much it upsets me, I'm also the sort of person who craves positive encouragement and nurturing, which is why I think I do things like think to myself if only I made the house perfect etc etc - I hope that DH will notice and praise me which will make me feel good about myself - I think I need to learn to gain confidence from myself for myself and not feel so reliant on other people doing this (dh clearly isn't fulfilling this need in any case). Even if I tell him when it gets to the point of that I can't take it anymore he hasn't noticed all of the little things that upset me regularly. ledkr I completely agree with you re: goalposts shifting - I can see that has already happened a bit, and what you said did scare me a little (not in a bad way) as I can see how easy it is to keep shifting them. All I can say is thank goodness for mn as if I do feel things are getting worse and it could be edging to abusive in the future I will be able to get some insightful comments from you all. Tbh I think I probably do need counselling, but this point in my life isn't great for it for various reasons, and DH probably needs counselling too, but I don't think he's in a place to accept this and as you have said if he doesn't want to change he won't. So we will continue muddling along, and I will make an effort to demonstrate how his behaviour effects other people. I think if I'm completely honest it would take another incident to brake the camels back as it were for me to force him into professional help. I realise this may seem to you like I'm asking for trouble to happen and keeping my head in the sand, but it's how I feel. Reading your comments has made me realise how easy it is to get over time into an abusive relationship though - when I was younger I always used to wonder why women stayed with these men who beat them up - now I see with clarity it progresses over time and wears people down so they blame themselves not their P (not saying this is me but it has made me think)

Nothing changes then, love ?

You are going to take responsibilty for pulling him up on his horrible behaviour ? You are going to tell him how it affects others every time he does it ? Will he listen ?

For various reasons neither yourself nor your H will be getting any help ?

We will always be here.

Reastie: the main thing to remember is that you don;t have to put up with it. It's fine to tell him that his behaviour is unacceptable and mean it, and to have him forcibly evicted from the family home if he won't stop hurling stuff about and screaming (You can do this. EASILY You see a solicitor and say, this man gets aggressive and smashes stuff up and my child is afraid of him, I think it's possible he will hurt her, he won't stop and he won't leave, get me an occupation order please - and you will get one.). He's not the most important person in the house. He's not a god, or any kind of superior being. He's just a tantrumming overgrown toddler human being who is subject to the same rules and expectations as you are ie behave in a civilised manner or take the consequences.

You know your own life, your own circumstances. Maybe a good earful will make him behave, the thing to hold to is that if he won't behave himself, it's FINE to throw him out, and tell everyone that you threw him out because his nasty childish tantrums upset your DD and you.

Reastie you have a right to not be frightened; to not live your life by his rules and you don't require his approval for that.

And don't fall into that trap that he is just being insensitive and doesn't realise it. He is being insensitive (and more) but he knows he is - after all you have told him (although I think he knew it before that). He knows it yet he still carries on doing it? Why would that be? Even by some freak chance he has some medical disorder which means he can't stop screaming and throwing things around when he is angry, it doesn't mean you have to put up with it.

reastie sorry I found you a bit late Didn't want to post on our usual place! Just wanted to add my experiences. I grew up with a Mum who was always on the edge as we would say. She would have a very short, quick temper, there were numerous quick slaps/shouting etc when "something else" frustrated her.

We lived with this as children, it was exhausting and terribly unfair on us. We learnt to read her moods, pre-empt her behaviour, try and please her even though her moods and anger had nothing to do with us. It led to some very unpleasant things being said when we were teenagers. Things I've not forgotten over 20 years later. Myself and my sister both left home in our late teens, my sister moved as far as away as she could afford to and used every excuse not to come home for Christmas etc. I as you know had found Mr W by then and have worked so hard not to repeat my Mums mistakes with my own girls.

This is a bit waffly but what I mean to say is that no, no-one can judge your relationship but your priority is your daughter. How would you feel if she fell in love with a man like your husband? Would you be happy for her?, feel worried/anxious for her?

As you also know I have a relationship now with my Mum, but she worked very hard to get it, she has learned to deal with her behaviour/moods, through after reaching the age of over 60 getting professional help. But when I think of all those years wasted "walking on egg shells", willing her not to be angry all the time I'm so sad for her and us and I'm also angry at my Dad for allowing her to palm off her behaviour as being just her way. It wasn't and isn't right.

Have to say i am a 'thrower' when really angry , obviously not at people , tends to be chucking shoes down the hallway towards the cupboard where they are supposed to live , that type of thing. I would never throw anything at someone though . I have also screamed/shouted at ds on a couple of occasions , the last time when he was about 12 months old and decided to wake up at 1.30am and not go back to sleep until 5am , i was just soooooooooooooo tired . Not a good thing to do , felt dreadful at the time .
I grew up in a house where my mother would fly into rages and she can bare a grudge like there's no tomorrow , so i do know that i try to moderate my behaviour as i know how it can effect people.
Is your husband the sort of person , like myself who gets angry at the little stuff ?

erm, he does get angry at what I consider relatively little stuff, stuff like trying to fix a wheel on DDs trike then getting annoyed that he can't do it so breaking the whole trike or not being able to sync his phone and computer, that sort of thing. I think it's the frustration that causes him to be angry. With other stuff though he can be more patient than me

wiggles all very interesting. If I think of Alice having a dh like dh I don't feel greatly happy or excited. That's bad isn't it?! Not because I would be worried about her safety but because I sometimes think his lack of friends and social interaction alienates me from people sometimes. We never ever go out with other people or couples socially. I have a few friends who I see but that is seperate to DH and I sometimes think back to when I was younger and had lots of friends and was very social and dare I say it even popular at one point (I know, ). So that really has little to do with his anger issues but I suppose it does have something to do with his people skills. He has so many good points though just as well really isn't it

your husband screamed at your baby girl?

he throws things and breaks things and it scares you.

this is abuse.
abuse to you and your DD. There is no excuse for this behaviour.

What type of man would scream at an innocent child? You know that this is wrong and it's not acceptable. You say his behaviour is now rubbing off on you which is a result of the abuse. You do not want your daughter to grow up thinking this is normal and how to behave do you? You don't want your daughter to end up with a man who scares her like your husband scares you?

Please call women's aid 0808 2000 247

I'm sorry to sound so blunt but I was in your position with a 1 year old DD and an angry man until recently. I thought he was just just angry. He said he would even get anger management then i learnt how he didn't have a problem controlling his anger he had a problem with controlling it with me.

Take care xxx

P.S. You said These used to be very rare it is escalating. Classic abuse. Please do call women's aid 0808 2000 247