Red flags I should have heeded - share yours for womenkind

[ParsleyTheLioness]

There were various red flags that meant I should have headed for the hills, but I was vulnerable at the time, and he only upped the ante several years and a child down the line. I will share mine, in the hope that someone may take it on board, and hopefully others will share theirs too.
In no particular order: very early on in our relationship, he would throw a strop for no reason that I could discern, and looking back, still didn't know what had triggered it. I just knew I felt bad afterwards.
He was always unaware of personal space, and would frequently invade mine. Eg in the car, he would suddenly lurch accross me to access the glove box, without any warning. His car, his space.
Subtle undermining tactics. I am very particular about the perfume I wear. Anything else is a bit of waste of money really. He knew this, but would always try to 'convert' me to another one.
There were many others, and things got worse, with lots of EA, some dv, but I am just thinking of the things that had my Twat Detector been working, would have encouraged me to get out before I had emotionally invested. Please feel free to add. I'm sure I shall think of lots of other things later.

Sowornout - this is my worst fear. Exp is not the only relationship I've had and I can separate it all but I'm terrified of what hex will teach the dd's about what they should tolerate from men

Then you teach her different. We've all of us had the courage to eventually stand up and say 'enough!' and to get out of various sad, bad and mad situations. We teach our daughters that they never, ever let anyone put them down. That anyone who makes them unhappy in any way is not worthy of them. We tell them they are beautiful and special and we boost their self esteem so that they don't need some arsehole in their life to validate it. We teach them that they do not need to tolerate anyone in their life who makes them feel they are not good enough. We teach them to value themselves. We are strong women and we will make our daughters strong. Good luck and much love to all of you.

LRD it is amazing in an awful way! Sometimes I'll just recognise 1 or 2 bits in a post, other times it all fits.
I also remember phoning my Dad to drive 2 hours to fetch me when I had a fluey cold. He wouldn't make me a drink or even turn the kettle on. Just a little thing but so cruel.

I'm a Mum or soon to be 2 boys and I know they will treat their partners properly. I wouldn't worry if I had a daughter as we know the red flags. I had my children after my ex and I think being a mother had made me re-evaluate how others treat me. I won't tolerate as much from colleagues/family as I know I need to model healthy boundaries and not be a doormat. Of course as DS is 2 this is a work in progress!

sowornout that is awful. Was that a catalyst for change?

Funnily enough ex ended up in a coma once. I was also told he may not make it (unfortunately this was a time when I'd been thinking of ending it but it hooked me back in), I never left him apart from a dash home for supplies. His family just popped in for 10 minutes- I couldn't believe it!

That is cruel.

The thing that sticks in my mind is when we split up, we'd agreed to clear out the house together and clean it ready for the landlady to take the keys. I'd gone off for a weeks' holiday with my parents and my brothers, and he rang to say he needed me to drive back to help clear out sooner than we'd thought. I had to drive over 500 miles, got there, to find him putting his coat on because he was going to visit his new girlfriend. He'd been seeing her for the last couple of months of our relationship and he just wanted me to do the clearing out on my own. The house was a tip, sink full of unwashed dishes, dirty clothes everywhere, and I'd only been gone for a few days.

I remember I sat down and burst into tears, rang my dad and sobbed down the phone at him, and then I got on and cleared it all up so I wouldn't lose the deposit. It was just the unnecessary cruelty of messing me around that got to me.

And it still took me three years to get that deposit money back, because he lied to them and said could they make the cheque payable to him (it was my money). They legally couldn't (no shit!) because it has to go back to the person who paid it in, but he'd only given his address so it took years for the LL to track me down. Bless them for doing that.

I think doing what you're doing with your boys is the way forward, isn't it? If we all do that, things will get better. I watch out for my mates like a hawk, too, and I'm not shy about speaking up if I see a red flag. It might be nothing but it's better to have a warning.

Soworn - I can do all that and more but I'm so worried about his influence on her and how their dynamic will play out when they are older

Wow
This thread is a revelation.
First boyfriend had mental health issues. Yet refused to take medication as it meant he couldn't drink, and continued smoking weed despite clearly contributing to his psychosis. RED FLAG
2nd boyfriend was just rubbish. Never replied to texts and stopped wanting to have sex after the first few weeks. I became friends with his later girlfriend and we discovered this was a big issue for him. He could only get hot for anonymous sex, once he knew you, he stopped fancying you. RED FLAG
3rd boyfriend used to wind me up for being posh. Ok I am middle class and have a degree whereas he was working class but we both worked in the same sector on the same pay. In fact the mocking got worse when I applied for a teaching pgce. Getting 'out of his league' RED FLAG
Husband - borrowed money early on and put off paying it back, then we got engaged and I wrote it off - early sign of his crap attitude to money. Would get grumpy if woken up too brusquely, fine to coddle someone awake when it's just two of you, not so fun when you have a baby/toddler to deal with
Drank too much. Again, fine as a young couple, horrendous with a young baby. RED FLAGS!!!!!
Almost forgot a fling I almost had - spotted me in a club, recognised me from a cafe I worked in 8 years earlier. Blinded me with flattery and over the top declarations, had always fancied me, I was special, never found a woman like me, etc. flattered me into bed, between first and second date never heard a peep from him. There was something a bit nasty about his attitude when sober. The second time we met he was drunk and told me he loved me!?!?! It was like the narc cycle on steroids. Thankfully I was 30 not 20 and recognised it.

The next man, whenever that may be, will be self motivated, drink moderately, kind and respectful, a light sleeper, honest about his feelings and emotionally literate. If he isn't those things then he will not get into my heart.

One of exes next girlfriends got in touch with doubts about him. I initially said that I wasn't surprised she'd contacted and there was a lot I could say but wouldn't until I knew she'd definately left him, (I was mid divorce and had to put myself first. I needed to know what I said wouldn't get back to him- see boundaries!!!)
Six months later she got in touch again to say I was right he'd wheedled his way back in and she was now devastated/thought she'd never be the same person again and wanted to know what I had to say.
Anyway she told me about a time she had an operation and needed help moving houses a few days later. Halfway through he insisted he had to go and left her tearful and in pain to move herself.
She later realised he'd disappeared as he had a date!

I'll post some general red flags later.

One I would like to highlight now is:-
keeping in touch with exes
Ex was incredibly hard to shake when we split and 4 years later still tried to get in touch.
It fell into place that when we were together he regularly rang various exes to see how they were/catch up. At the time I thought this was a huge positive. I know think it was borderline stalking and indicative of the fact that he viewed us as his possessions.

Cashmere - I hadn't thought about the ex's thing being a red flag. My ex-husband kept in touch with his exes. I thought it was a sign of maturity at the time that they could be friends after a relationship. But he still had little in-jokes with them, bickered with one in particular and acted entitled with them, including not really respecting their new partners. Now he seems not to understand that I just don't want anything to do with him and tries to belittle my new relationship. Hadn't really thought of that before but he had finished the other relationships and liked to think that they were still at his beck and call.

Another red flag is when they seem to know what is better/best for you more than you do...and they take offence if you don't take their 'caring' advice.

And being told how to behave in company. My ex was forever trying to tell me that how I behaved was rude or inappropriate in one way or another. One of his 'favourite' phrases was 'just watch what you say'. He was the one who used bad language, shouted and fell out with people and used people. But he could just say sorry or give them the silent treatment. I realised when I got feedback in an appraisal at work that I was thoughtful, considered and diplomatic in dealing with colleagues and clients that he was playing a head game on this.

I'd watch people who feel they have to apologise too much, tbh. My ex could do anything, because he was so good at saying 'sorry'.

I feel like I have gained respect from my DD in particular since leaving the relationship. She still loves her Dad but she understands why I would want to leave him.

Funnily enough, I'd recommend any of my other exes as potential partners to my friends even if I wouldn't want to go out with them again myself. In fact, I have. With my ex-husband I'd seriously tell them to give him a body-swerve.

Soworn here here your post of 0141...well said. Cashmere interesting what you said about keeping in touch with ex's. During the final few weeks, after I had found out about online dating, started opening credit card statements and found quite large amounts being paid to 192.com to get credits to stalk trace ex gf's.

Apologies took the form of either:

I am such a fuck-up, I can't help it, I don't deserve you

or

You should apologise for complaining about my unreasonable behaviour

I learnt about Red Flags on MN so only put up with this loser for 3 weeks.

After only knowing him a few days he stayed over and in the morning got up and opened my post! When I asked him why he said it was because he would understand the content (private solicitors letters) better than me.

He answered my phone and replied to my text messages as if he was me. Thought nothing of picking my phone up if it pinged and reading MY text out to me.

Shouted at me one evening when I said I didn't want to see him that night as I had a migraine - said a headache was no excuse not to see your boyfriend and I was selfish and weak.

Referred to himself as my baby Dcs new daddy, without even having met him. Freak.

Told me his dad worked for MI5 and he had people watching me, and could make people who crossed him disappear. Pretended he knew all the local policemen and had inside information on me.

I got a call from Vodafone asking me to verify some information for my new phone contract - he had gone on line and given my details to get himself a new phone - I told them I had no idea what they were on about.

Said he only ate gourmet food and protested when I started making spag Bol because I was making the sauce not using dolmio. And ordered take aways constantly.

Came round one evening and scared me so much I thought he was about to rape me - held me against the wall and when I cried he said he was only acting because he thought I would like it.

Woke up during the night to find him having sex with me. I kicked him out. He had a tantrum because he thought I was unreasonable. A few nights previous I had woken up and found him giving me oral sex. He was holding me very tight and I couldn't move - he claimed he had done it in his sleep.

I think he may have stolen a set of my house keys as they were last seen in his car, never to be seen again.

Oh and I found a bag of his stuff in my house, including shoes, clothes and toiletries.

He pretended to pass out from a heart condition a lot and nearly died most days. He kept forgetting to take his tablets but when I looked at them they were mainly ibuprofen.

Refused to pay csa to his ex as he thought she would spend it on herself, used to hack into her and her mums Facebook to read messages between them.

Phoned his mum after sex and told her in detail what he'd just done.

After I dumped him he sent abusive messages to me, denying all of the above and telling me I was crazy.

I can't believe I put up with him for 3 weeks, but I had just come out of a relationship and was very vulnerable. I think this is what attracted him to me as he said in one of his post break up texts that he had saved me! And I would've been nothing without him. And I was ungrateful.

cashmere I'm ashamed to say I still went back to the arsehole - initially because 3DCs were under 4 and I didn't have energy straight out of hospital to deal with divorce/finances/lack of home, etc and later stayed out of pathetic optimism that things would improve. We limped on for another 3 years. What was I thinking???

crackcrackcrak Your influence will be greater than his, believe me. You will presumably be the one she lives with whilst he sees her perhaps at weekends and our DCs wise up to what dad is like as they get up. Mine are now 17, 18 & 20 and haven't bothered go see him since about Feb, because their own lives are too busy and exciting and he doesn't make much effort. They used to see him 2x a week all the way through growing up til they hit mid/late teens and found better things to do than spend time with parents. As 17 yo DD2 said a few months ago, 'I'm glad you never stopped us seeing Dad. He's still my dad even though he's pretty crap and a bit of a twat'. lol.

He used to drive me mad by poking me. Face - err..your eyebrows are so bushy (erm... they're not) or when I had rosacea (it's cleared up now) he'd touch my face and say 'oh that looks really sore, it looks disgusting', if I had a little cellulite on my thighs (I'm really quite slim) prodding me and either just grunting or saying 'hmmm could do with a bit of firming up' or something like that. If I was looking particularly thin he might even give a compliment but then say 'if you stay like that I'll carrying on f*ing you'. If I complained or said that he was invading my personal space he'd call me weird, frigid etc. And he's say things like 'I'm not the only one who thinks it. My mum/sister....thinks your oversensitive, moody, cold...blah blah blah too'

Sleeping...he would prod me if I made any noise at all. Got to the point where he complained about me breathing. My breathing woke him up and rather than just turn over (as I would do if his snoring woke me up) then he'd wake me up. I was working, he wasn't so I was exhausted with getting such a broken night's sleep.

Breath - turned his head away saying I had bad breath. He said it was awful and that I really should make sure I chew gum to cover the terrible smell. Well, I went to the dentist, doctor and none of them could find anything. It got to the stage where I was breathing on my GPs face and he ended up saying 'there's nothing wrong with your breath, I think it must be your husband'. lol. Sure was!!

Lovingfreedom How did you resist the temptation to poke his dick and say, 'hmmmm this could do with being a bit bigger', lol?

Road rage / aggressive driving
Being horrible to my family and distant / moody at social events with my friends
Being aggressive to waiters / shop assistants etc
Going out for a day out or a meal etc and ignoring me - then telling me I was being paranoid if I suggested he was ignoring me or that I was rude
Shouting at me when I was nervous about being to drive in Spain when I had no insurance
Telling me off for dropping bread crumbs on the table at his parents' house (they were paint splatters)
Asking me if I missed my Ex
Asking me why I needed to wear matching underwear to work
Asking me if I wanted to sleep my decorators
Laughing at my attempts at cooking.

What the fuck was I thinking? After splitting up with me he married a pregnant someone within 4 months. I've wondered about her every now and again and how she was getting on because he's pretty charming to start off with. And he wasn't even the worst one. Gah.

Have fantastic DH now and believe only have him because I learnt what to avoid

SON If I were to quickly sum up the pros and cons of this man it would go something like this:

Pros: Has a big dick
Cons: Is a big dick

I found out the first on the first night...took me 15 years to fully appreciate the extent of the second... ;o)

Lovingfreedom LOL...

Pros: Has a big dick
Cons: Is a big dick

Love it!

Yes, yes to the road rage also.

And he was never wrong. Ever. Not once. Apparently.

I'm not sure about the "keeping in touch with exes" thing... I can see how it's an issue if there are other red flags too, but not in isolation!

Maybe it should not be called 'keeping in touch with exes' - but an unhealthy interest in stalking controlling/obsessing over women he thinks are 'his'
Road rage ... now there is a classic ...

Agree that keeping in touch with exes may not be a red flag alone (though poss not fair on new partner).

However, I do think it's significant and needs highlighting as an alternative to 'calls his exes a bitch/psycho'. Maybe the thing to look for is if the contact appears to be one way.

My ex kept on contacting me for a good 2 years with no responses from me (FB, email, phone). He also randomly contacted friends/work friends and colleagues on FB.
This was 4 years after we split (was in touch for 1st 2 years as had to be for divorce purposes)
I expect if he was still alive he'd still be contacting me now.

sowornout I was with mine 6 years and took 2 years to end it from the time I thought I should. I had no children with him do can't begin to imagine how hard it must be with children.
I stayed as I told my self that life is not a fairytale/relationships take work/things can only get better/we'll have our happy ending.
Misplaced optimism, but I'm sure it's the same for a lot of us.
I think when you've put so much time and effort (much more than in a normal relationship) into something it's hard to give up on it.

I did get my happy ending (with someone else!) have been with DH nearly 4 years. I always describe him as 'so normal'. This is doing him a great injustice and makes him sound dull, but after you've experienced a crazy maker it is a very great thing!