Affair with teacher 20 years ago - too late to complain?

[Berts]

Not sure if this should be here or in Ethical Dilemmas really. I have namechanged.

20 years ago I had a relationship with a teacher at school. When it started, he was 35 and I was (almost) 16. We were together for four and a half years and were engaged to be married, but I couldn't tell my (hugely religious) parents and I was massively bullied at school when it leaked out, as these things inevitably do. We first became friends when I was fourteen, when I stole a knife from his classroom to try to kill myself, so he knew I had problems in myself and at home. It was totally messed up.

Now, in my mid-thirties myself, I can see how totally wrong the whole thing was. I am angry at this guy for being such an emotionally immature fuckwit. I mean, really, who in their right mind hears a 16 year old child promise to love them forever and thinks that's a promise they can take to the bank!

However, here's my real problem: a couple of years after I left school, I found out through a friend whose husband (a former student at school with us) had gone back to work at the school, that a lot of the teachers knew about the affair while I was still at school. And they did... nothing.

This includes teachers who I had confided in about problems I was having at home who knew that I had a chaotic homelife and was self-harming. They saw what was happening with this guy and just did nothing at all. Not one person so much as took me aside for a quiet word or tried to find out what was really going on. Many of those teachers are still working there now.

I'm in two minds: part of me wants to leave it alone as it was such a horrible part of my life, so destructive, I don't want to revisit. But another part of me is so angry that these 'responsible adults' saw me in harms' way and just thought 'meh'. I think their attitude was that I was slutty and therefore it was my fault (actually, I was a virgin, acting out by dressing slutty).

I don't want the stress of pursuing a formal complaint, but I'm tempted to contact the current vice-principal, who I hear through contacts is a good guy (and unconnected with these past events) and have an off the record chat about the issues with the school's pastoral care.

Is it worth it?

As a teacher, I disagree totally with bluepetticoat. For the record it would not be considered paedophilia as she was 15 and therefore not pre-pubescent. Paedophiles are attracted to children not 15yr old girls with adult women bodies. So nobody is suggesting the teacher is a paedophille.

However, despite having the body of a woman, she was legally a child. The law recognises this and so does society. The law also now recognises that teenagers are vurnerable and prone to be highly influenced by adults in authority whom they look up to. Teachers hold a very special position of trust and are very aware that teenagers in their care can often confuse a nurturing relationship with a loving or sexual one. Therefore, unlike the average 35yr old in the street, they know it is inappropriate for them to engage in a sexual relationship with a pupil under 18. It is, quite frankly an abuse of trust especially in the case of a pupil known to be vurnerable such as the OP. He discovered her self-harming. What the hell was he thinking?

Just to add to the context, even before the 2003 change in the law, the vast majority of teachers knew such relationships were inappropriate. The law just clarifies the legal position.

So he was grooming the OP from the age of 13/14, a relationship began when she was 15? [yet to clarify if this was sexual-but as they'd been 'friends for 2 yrs before this point, im guessing it was sexual from the age of 15]

I am aghast that anyone can defend what he did in any way, it was very obviously mmorally wrong and quite likely as she was under the age of consent it was illegal.

Attitudes like Bluepetticoats is exactly why these things get swept under the carpet.

OP, I am so sorry this happened to you.

I just want to say - you don't owe us an explanation. You don't have to 'establish the facts' any more than you have done. You just say whatever you want or think might help you sort through this.

I'm sure it's not deliberate, but all these comments about 'establishing the facts' and addressing the OP with things like 'you have to be realistic' are coming across - en masse - as an interrogation and condemnation. She doesn't 'have' to do anything. She's talking things through on the net, which seems totally sensible prior to deciding what she might do.

I think what he did was utterly wrong, and clearly it has stayed with you and hurt you. If it's correct the other teachers did nothing, that is really awful too (and I hope, as someone suggested, that perhaps they did/didn't know quite as much as it seems). It is very healthy that you are dealing with the feelings you've got, I think, and I really hope you can get some closure, whether you choose to talk to the headteacher, or whatever you do.

Btw, lovingthecoast, at 15 I certainly didn't have an 'adult woman's body' - I was a child, how could I? Some of my classmates would have passed for 18 but many of us were still very clearly teenagers whose bodies hadn't yet developed fully. No-one should excuse treating an underage girl like this no matter what her body looks like.

" We first became friends when I was fourteen, when I stole a knife from his classroom to try to kill myself, so he knew I had problems in myself and at home. It was totally messed up"

Bluepetticoat
Did you miss this bit of information from the OP? A young girl, with a chaotic homelife, who self-harmed and was thinking of suicide.

A responsible teacher would have tried to assist her by talking to her, getting her to speak to a counsellor etc.

He took advantage of a confused and vulnerable teenager.

Forget about the age, and whether it was legal or not, this is the issue. To state that she might have had the power in the relationship is ridiculous. Does it sound like she had any kind of power in the relationship, going by the info in the OP?

Right lets just take stock here.

Yes, bluepetticoats questions are harsh, but in fact they are valid. Do any of you who are attacking bluepetticoat actually work in law? Because she makes the very valid point that if the OP were to go to anyone in authority about this it would go to the police and probably to court.

Bluepetticoat's questions are nothing compared to what the OP will face from a defence counsel. She will be torn apart in a court of law. As will the teacher, but barristers are not paid to be tactful or sensitive.

What this teacher in a position of authority did to a vulnerable child was indeed shocking. But i am sorry, bluepetticoat's questions are not, and she is not supporting the teacher, she is looking at it from a legal point of view, which is effectively what the OP was asking.

Berts, Thatlldo, dictionaryd am so sorry that you've had this experience. It is depressingly familiar to me too. I was 13 when my teacher started an inappropriate relationship with me - he was very clever never to really cross the line until I was old enough for him not to get fired. But by then it was way too late in terms of how tangled up I was with him. What I now know as classic grooming - isolated me from family & friends etc. He was 23 years older than me. And married with children. It has taken me 20 years to even begin to reconcile myself to it. The fact that he was married, and left his wife, made it and continues to make it really hard to come to terms with as I feel guilty for having been the OW too.

For a long long time, I let it carry on ruining my life - I rushed into a marriage that didn't work, drank really heavily, was afraid to do anything that would give me any sort of a public profile as I thought it would all come out and people would judge me (I have name changed for this obv). It was only after some really helpful counselling, and support from my now DH that I understand that it was abuse. I'm now the age he was when he started the "friendship" and I realise how ridiculous it is to think that a friendship with a 13 year old would be anything other than deeply sinister.

Bearing in mind the question in your OP Berts, I would say that your anger at the other responsible adults might be a bit misdirected. I agree that it would have been great if someone had stepped in - I wish someone had in my case too - not least my parents who memorably said it would have been better if I'd have died than "done this to them". But the person to blame is him. I too have explored options around prosecution as I was haunted by possibility that he would do the same to someone else. But I wasn't really brave enough to do anything, and took comfort from the fact that people would keep a fairly close eye on him. Am not proud of myself for that though . I would recommend talking to someone about it though - it really helped me to start to see it for what it was. Take care of yourself.

marthas - she's not in the courtroom now so there is no excuse for setting yourself up as judge and jury.

Do you not see that pretending you're all playing Big Scary Lawyer is both inappropriate and ridiculous?

LRD she is right though their not considered paedophiles if child is over 13 it is WRONG but that is the definition.

I am with you on teenage girls being vulnerable mine probably knew everything to keep them safe I made sure of it eldest is nearly 21 and isn't that well developed but youngest who's 16 has had an adults body since 13 but youngest has always been young in mind.

Martha it wouldn't happen like that in a court anyway it. Is no longer allowed to happen.

And this is not a bleeding courtroom.

Marthas
BP's questions may be valid but they are misplaced. The OP has posted about a traumatic time in her youth, she is trying to work through this.

Part of this is working out if she wishes to go to the current HT - the information that he will have to act on anything that she tells him is a very good point and will help her.

Stating that she might have had the power in the relationship and that she was an adult when the "affair" started is not helpful. It was not an affair, it was abuse of power by a trusted person.

x-posted with lots, springydaff that is so sad. I think the actual age is not really relevant in this context it's the abuse of a position of power. In my experience the real damage was done way before any sexual contact - it was the deprivation of adolescence/grooming relationship. And yes - if the OP did want to prosecute she would face much worse than bluepetticoat's questioning. But it's tough when this great wrong was done to you - which made you feel powerless - and you feel powerless to do anything about it without adding to the damage

The comments by bluecoat are utterly disgusting. I'm honestly upset that people, women, think like that, though not surprised I guess. :(

I'm sorry to hear about your experience Berts I think talking about it all with a counselor would be the best way forward, though I can see why you feel that talking with the vice-principal you've heard good things about might help bring some closure for you about what happened. I'd seek more advice from an experienced counselor. I think talking with someone wise, empathetic, and experienced will be the most helpful thing for you to do. Good luck. We believe you and you didn't do anything wrong.

Makes me realise a teacher at my school had a mildly inappropriate relationship with me. There wasn't anything physical or even anything inappropriate said but he did give me a lift in his sports car and I think was overly positive about my work. I'm sure that sounds ridiculously mild and innocent, but your post has made me wonder if he had the high standards we should all be able to expect in those who have such a responsibility to young people/ us. A driving instructor who was meant to be teaching me to drive at 18 was also inappropriately flirtatious, and would park up and just chat with me for ages during lessons. It did make me feel uncomfortable. I guess partly he just wanted a break though, and chatting with a friendly young woman is probably easier than teaching her to drive. Hmm ( as in, when you look back you can see things which weren't as they should have been - I'm sorry things were so much worse for you Berts and hope you can find someone good to talk it all through with )

I (thankfully) cannot grasp how this would EVER be ok. No self respecting human being would be able to condone this. I dont even care if she was 17 or 18. Any man THAT much older, in a position of "guardian" who takes advantage of a girl who is clearly in a terrible emotional state - is disgusting.

For me, there is NO grey area here.

I think the big questions are a) whether the law can be applied retrospectively and b) did a relationship begin before she was of the age of consent.

Just to add a contrasting experience from almost exactly the same time period - have namechanged for this. I am 36 now and was in the sixth form (aged 16) and had a 'relationship' with one of my teachers. He was late 20s, single and quite 'cool'. I was clever, almost entirely sexually inexperienced, a bit geeky and something of a loner.

I soon began chatting to him after lessons and he encouraged me to come to see him at lunchtimes, sometimes along with another child - a younger boy as it happened. We would eat lunch together, chat etc. I soon developed a huge crush on him and would write about him in my diary . He would always encourage me to come up to his classroom and occasionally gave me lifts home. We would chat about general things, but also gradually began to talk about personal stuff, relationships etc - he was engaged to be married (arranged marriage). He never showed any signs of being attracted to me, beyond actively encouraging me to come and chat to him every day, but if he had made a move on me, I would certainly have responded.

Was it grooming? I don't know. I think the answer is in what eventually happened.

Obviously this became noticeable to other people and one day he overheard a couple of my friends, other girls in the sixth form, joking about me/him in a lesson. The very same day he met me at the door of his classroom, told me what he had heard, that it was potentially damaging and said that we had to stop meeting up right there and then. So he was a although he had made an error in letting this situation develop, he realised where it could be going and put a stop to it.

However, our 'relationship' was definitely known to other staff - on a number of occasions I had been in the room chatting and his department head had popped in and given me a glance. The department head was also my teacher but never approached me about it and, as far as I know, never spoke to the teacher in question.

So I suppose I could complain of grooming, but I think it wouldn't be fair to describe it as such. Complain about the school turning a blind eye? After all, they didn't know that it was not a sexual relationship. Maybe, but I think relationships between teachers and 16-18 year olds were a much greyer area at that time - possibly perceived as being a case of personal ethics rather than being strictly prohibited.

I was fortunate in that the realtionship didn't do me any harm and he was fortunate in that he realised the potential dangers and put a stop to it. The irony is that I rebounded from that relationship almost directly into an emotionally and sexually abusive relationship with a person of my own age. :(

the OP asked if it is worth complaining and if it is too late to do so. some people, such as bluecoat, are responding to give her an idea of the consequences of such an action. ie - that she will be grilled in court (and yes it does happen, a defence counsel is not going to tiptoe around her, harsh but true)

I am not defending the teacher in any way. And i am not acting out judge and jury. FWIW i too think this teacher should be called to task about it, in whatever forum, but if a complaint is made it is likely to go to court. And this ^ is what the OP will be faced with.

LRD, I wasn't making excuses. I was merely clarifying that a man who wants to have sex with a 15yr old is not a paedophile. The overwhelming majority of 15yr old girls have bodies more womanlike than childlike.

I'm not saying the OP wasn't abused; I believe she was as he clearly took advantage of her immaturity and vurnerable state. Being a nasty abuser does not make him a paedophile though.

*loving - sure, I just wanted to make that point because it's a claim you often hear abusers make, that a woman-like body is an excuse.

The situation would be just as worrying if someone high up in a company started a relationship with a much younger employee who was under his direction and who clearly had problems. The ages, or the fact that it was a school is neither here nor there really. It's the difference in power and control that is worrying, as well as the fact that the OP had serious difficulties that the teacher was fully aware of.

I wonder if telling you of my experience will help at all...

Similar deal but he was the family GP.

I made formal complaint 16 yrs later. It was taken seriously and rolled around the legal system for many years.

During the process I experienced a rollercoaster of emotions. At first I was terrified of the mess I believed I would create by telling, and I was very vulnerable to other people's reactions.

All up I was very confused, to the point where I felt sort of frozen back in my teenage years.

These days I look back on it all and am at peace. The legal process did not address my personal difficulties, but offloading the torment was hugely helpful and having authoritative figures rule against him and compliment me on my part in bringing it to their attention, was very freeing.

That, combined with extensive therapy, has allowed me to make sense of my experience and build an much better life.

One of the best parts was when a witness who cried off sick tried to contact me after the trial. She sent a message saying she did support me and only didn't go to the trial because she hadn't realised how serious it was. In short she wanted me to assuage her guilt for enabling an abuser.

I didn't engage with her. I felt it was entirely her own problem and not one I was interested in taking on.

It was great to get to a place of such strength, to see all those feeble adults -who had failed utterly to protect a vulnerable child - twitching uncomfortably.

So my advice would be to mull it over, possibly draft your complaint then talk it over with a professional counsellor (can you access therapy?)

I would recommend you take time and seek help, really good support (not half-witted relatives who say daft things), to tackle this. Because of the age you were and the time that has passed, it will require a lot of processing.

I'm sorry for what you have been through and are still wrestling with. You deserve much, much better than this.

You are not in court. You are not the lawyer examining the OP as your witness. The OP has not even decided what to do yet.

that is the point surely? she hasnt decided what to do, so yes, bluepetticoat has given her an idea of the types of questions she will be asked if she does raise any kind of complaint, she needs to consider whether she is up to that and whether it will help her recovery or do more harm than good.

I do have sympathy LRDthefeministdragon but you seem to have missed that point also.

Martha, in this sort of situation, where someone has said they've been abused do you really think it's better to start grilling them than to try to support them? If you have children I would urge you think carefully about that.