False accusations of domestic violence (long, sorry!)

[ebmummy]

Grr, just spent 30 minutes typing this out, only to lose it all!

Ok, so I have a dear friend who I have known for 25+ years (since we were 5!). I was his lodger throughout his 3 year marriage to his wife until his divorce in 2009. Basically he had an arranged marriage with his woman in India (he's Hindu). She was a complete bitch, really nasty to him, me and my dbf (now dh). She hit him and was physically, verbally and emotionally abusive. On one occasion, she was so unhinged I taped the incident on my phone and called the Police, but nothing was done cos he wouldn't press charges).

Long story short, she started pilphering their joint account (he was the only one who worked), and moved in with another fella. She also stole items from the house (including from me) and left. He filed for divorce, and Immigration tried to deport her (she was on a marriage visa) but she claimed domestic violence. She thus allowed to stay, despite the fact she couldn't prove it, HE could. And as I was there all the time (studying for my PhD), I could verify he was never violent towards her (he's the kindest gentlest guy I know, apart from DH!)

Anyway since then she's been going around his close tight-knit community saying he's impotent, he's not a man, that he stole her gold (he managed to hold onto some of the gold that HIS family gave to them as gifts for their wedding). He wants to meet someone new, but can't cos of the mud-slinging (he's married the guy she moved in with btw). Is there anything he can do? Obviously he's a long-time dear friend and want to see him happy as well as DH and I being fed-up of him moping around our house every weekend cos of what this spiteful woman is doing

flange, what part of the account has changed from the OP? On the day I went to court, I was speaking to df's lawyer/solicitor/whatever and he said women at risk of being sent back after the breakdown of marriage often claim domestic violence to delay the proceedings. As I've repeatedly said, I don't know what the exact proceedings were (and the name of them). I am criticised for being in my friend's 'business' too much, and then criticised for not knowing the exact steps that occurred. My involvement in this case was being friends with someone who before my very eyes was suffering abuse, and attesting to that in court. It really doesn't matter whether you think it's a 'tall' story or not, and whether you feel I am not giving you the 'correct' information to dissect in detail. Thankfully the outcome has been resolved.

swallowed I think it's very judgemental of you to think that asians have 'a culture where adultery means honour killings'. Can I say that WE have a culture where adultery means your husband gets drunk and beats you to death? No. It's a generalised and small-minded way of looking at people. I actually find that comment really racist.

it would be IF i had said or assumed that ebmummy. but i DIDN"T. either you're very twisty or your comprehension skills need brushing up.

i used a hypothetical community where such practices existed as an example of when a person might respond differently to an event than another culture would think the norm for complex reasons. i didn't make ref to any real community or link that to the community of the person you are talking about.

i can't believe i'm even explaining that because that is incredibly clear i think and presenting otherwise is just cynical manipulation.

Larry: My main op should've said 'divorced friend getting harassed by ex. Can anyone advise?'

If df was FEMALE, I'm sure there would be an outpouring of sympathy, with practically a bounty on her x's head. But because he's male, by befriending him, I have 'emasculated him', and culturally he should've been left to deal with dv by himself cos he had an arranged marriage therefore deserves no sympathy. It would have been the making of him apparently. And because I wasn't kept in the loop about the PRECISE legal proceedings which happened 3 years ago (obviously having a life of my own), this is all a 'tall' story and 'none of it adds up'.

The only positive thing which has come from this thread is that df is getting help (with thanks a lovely lady who sent me the appropriate details).

swallowed, this is your exact quote (taken from previous page):

for example if you lived in a culture where adultery meant honour killings

Your explanation is ridiculous about using a 'hypothetical' community, when you know he is Asian, and his wife is Asian, and the honour killings may sometimes be (but not exclusively) within the Asian community.

if you live in a culture where it is deeply shameful to admit you couldn't 'control' your wife

Is this another 'hypothetical* community you're referring to? When you KNOW he's Asian?

for example! if! do you get what you're reading there? because to me that is very clearly saying as a hypothetical example imagine you lived in a culture where.....

i was using examples to support the point that not everyone would respond to things the same way and things would vary culturally. i'm from an anthropologist background - using examples of cultures and different values, meanings to exemplify how taken for granted responses are actually dependent on various factors is part of how i look at things. that is all.

but hey you can keep twisting and trying to make out i'm a racist or something if you so wish. you can't possibly know how ironic the statement is nor can anyone else so if you wish to keep slandering you may get some results. to me though it will just look like cynical manipulation.

but fill your boots!

'I.E you have equated an arranged marriage, normal within some cultures, to physical violence. Is that really your belief? And would you say that of a woman who brought a husband over from Asia to marry her and he was violent towards her?'

Normal doesn't mean right, Larry.
Yes, I do equate arranged marriage to violence. It is institutionalised unequal treatment of women, and it would be oppressive even if there were no grey areas between forced and arranged marriage (and the boundaries are very blurry). It would be oppressive even if the women involved were not travelling from second or third world countries to the first world (and there are plenty of instances where economic exploitation of a woman's relative disadvantage works in the consumer's favour). Arranged marriage happens in a society where the family is more important than the individual and usually in a society where the family is dominated by the patriarch. Ultimately what happens is that the family of the man is the consumer and the family of the woman provides the product.
Yes, I would say that of a woman bringing a man over from Asia to marry, if it happened. But does it happen? I think not. It doesn't happen because men have the advantaged position.

And the position of the women brought over in arranged marriages where their continued residence in Britain depends on remaining married strikes you - what, a recipe for having a relationship where you can count on decent treatment from your husband? A relationship where you would feel able to go to the police and complain if he abused you?

Would you really feel that you could go to the police if all he had to do was get 40 witnesses to tell the court what a fine fellow he was?

So yes, institutionalised violence and with the potential for a woman to be put in a situation where she is completely on her own and without safeguards if things go wrong.

Ebmummy, if nothing else, this thread shows there's more to reading that just decoding the individual words.

Don't know Larry. I just knew the OPs account of the legal proceedings and what has happened wasn't likely to be right. She's effectively confirmed that now, as she's told us she doesn't actually know whether her friend's XW has status in the UK, and if so how she got it. If her account rings true to you, it's because you don't know about immigration law. Which is fair enough, there's no reason for you to know or care. But for me, yes the details are extremely important. There is a great deal of bullshit talked about immigration law, and threads like this don't help. I care about that issue. That's why I joined in- you'll notice I haven't commented on whether there was DV or not, and who was responsible. If you look at my posting history, you'll see that this isn't the first time I've talked about legal matters on here. I have a professional interest (and I trained in family law too, so also in what OP was saying about DV hearings).

OP, what's changed is your claim that XW has been allowed to stay in the UK based on false accusations of DV. You've now said you were assuming she'd been allowed to stay because of the new marriage. That's a change in story, a big one. Now, there's nothing wrong with you not knowing the exact nature of proceedings. But there's a lot wrong with you making comments about them when you don't know. Aside from contributing to all the wrongful information about immigration in the public eye, there might also be a person on a spousal visa who's suffering DV reading this thread. Your account gives the wrong idea entirely about how easy it'll be to stay in the UK by making a DV accusation. The truth is, for anyone in that position who's reading, that you'll need evidence. For the rest of it, I don't blame you for believing your friend, but I think he might be spinning you a yarn or two if all the stuff you've written about the proceedings came from him.

Incidentally, when I trained in family law, I learned that it's pretty common for British spouses accused of DV by the other party on the spousal visa to respond by accusing them of doing it to get a visa. I'm not saying nobody has ever lied about DV to try and get a visa, but people also need to be aware that an abuser has the perfect excuse and explanation when the other party is on a spousal visa. I've assisted people on both sides, so have no axe to grind here.

I well remember a colleague of mine bitching about the spouse of a client, assuring me that the spouse had only made the accusation in order to get a visa to remain in the UK. I wondered how exactly my colleague would know this. I wonder the same about your friend's solicitor. But the part about him/her thinking themself an expert on XWs motivations rings very very true- I definitely believe that part!

Not the most sublte way to promote your website. Reported.