Do they ever change?

[bekspolo]

Ok, I should start from the start!

First things first I'm a 33yr old single mum of one boy now nearly 4. I have somehow managed to be quite successful, I'm amazed at times the life I have, but I singlehanded support my son, His father says I clearly don't need help so he refuses to assist.

Anyway i went on a blind date with a guy I met off the net over a year ago. It was pretty bonkers but we had a connection over email, text and phone calls. We met in a very public place just in case any of you wonder if I'm doolally!

The attraction was instant - which considering it was a bit random I was quite surprised.

We've had an amazing year.......BUT.......he is 27 years old than me. Now the age gap has never bothered me, in fact he looks more like 17 years older, plus he is the fittest man I have ever met (and as someone who races in half ironmans I know a fit man when I see one!). As a bit of background he has a pretty high flying job himself in the medical industry and is at the top of his game. He has 2 children and an ex wife. He is a kind and generous person, and has treated me like an absolute princess. He does earn a ridiculous amount of money, but then I'm ok financially myself - and I've never been attracted to someone for financial gain. And we have our own homes, we don't live together but he did spend about 3 nights a week at mine.

But here's the problem. He it seems had insecurity issues, he had major issues about me being friends with other men, to the point he deleted all male contacts off my personal phone. On our anniversary he went nuts at me for engaging in conversation with another couple - despite the fact that he started the conversation! He gets very edgy if I mention men through my work - which is a bit difficult seeing as though in most situations I am the only woman.

So to cut a long story short 3 weeks ago I broke it off, because of his unreasonable behaviour - in essence he was controlling me, turning me into a nervous wreck. He has not given up, albeit allowed me space, but he has had flowers sent to my work (huge huge flowers) has been supportive when my work was difficult last week, but as a friend. He has allowed me space to move on - except I don't think I can. I love this man but hate him for being such a total div.

However he went to see a work colleague who is a professor of psychology who he asked her to walk him through my he is acting the way he is. He now tells me he understands the way he acted, is utterly mortified at some of the things he has said and done, has learnt from his mistakes and will change.

Am I right to question this? The truth is I am in love with him, but when he's awful he's bloody awful, but when he's brilliant he is absolutely amazing. People say we are soulmates, made for each other. But I'm not sure I can allow him back in my life with the worry that he may not have changed?

Don't know what to do, I'm not letting him go because I think hand on heart I want him back, but I'm frightened of being hurt.

Please be gentle, I appreciate a 27 year age gap may be quite disgusting for some, but genuinely the connection is there.

Thanks

Right, let me clarify:

Can you elaborate a bit Pimpdog? Does this mean that a man who is only say, 10 years older than his partner is only 'infatuated' or are you putting this more in the context of the OP's partner's behaviour than his age? Do 60yo men not fall in love?

It's a function of actual age and age difference and behaviour.

Lovebird behaviour just don't get along with a 60y old guy, even more so when in a relationship with a young pretty woman.

A man 30yo can fall in love with a 20yo. A man 40yo can fall in love with a 20yo. A man 60yo cannot fall in love with a 20yo.

Sure, you can get in love with another person at any age, but the older you get and more mature the less passionate the emotion is and you dont get that "head-over-heels" effect, even more so when there is a huge age gap. I strongly believe (but that's just me, it doesn't make it a fact) that a 60yo cannot fall in love with a woman 30 years younger. He can get infatuated with a pretty woman but in-love? no..not really. I guess I'm getting at the behaviour element of how that love is expressed, as you correctly pointed out. Sorry if I'm not getting my message across very well.

Why would his age mean he wanted to control her, more say than a man her own age who was a bit of a twat?

Because of his insecurity over the age difference which compounds such behavioural traits. You can bet that he was controlling when he was 30 years old, now he is even more so because he is more insecure. Given that most old men don't have the physical attributes to maintain the female's attention (men think physical attributes are always of primary importance - it's how they measure themselves, despite what many women might tell them), they resort more to creating financial dependencies or family dependencies (which is a derivative of financial dependency). They know they can't compete on looks and passion with younger rivals, but they have the cash to throw around.

There is also a difference between a young possessive male and and old one. The young one does it out of ignorance many times and because he is just that, a twat. An old man does it while knowing better and with full consciousness of his actions. This bring me to a very important point I forgot to make before about the OP.

This guy is 60, has had a marriage and presumably plenty of other relationships. His controlling nature is just that, nature, it didn't "happen" because of you. Therefore, he hasn't changed all these years and you can bet he has been told about it(and promised to change) many times in the past. What makes you think he will change now with you? What may happen is for you to tolerate it and overlook it (if you can do that, it's up to you), not for him to change. I'm always of the opinion that people don't change much, just a little, so you need to find someone you love the way they are and their positive attributes should be overcompensating for their negative ones. Just need to find one whose negative attributes you don't mind that much.

I think what I'm having trouble with is the thought that someone like my own DP would wish to either entrap me by having a child with me, or make me stay with him by providing financial security. Are you only suggesting this because you think he would be afraid of losing me/OP to someone younger than himself?

Yeah, pretty much. If he had the financial means and a massive insecurity (as the OP partners seems to have) he might as well try it.

I do find that rather disturbing...I don't think it's occurred to me or DP that I would leave him if he didn't pay for stuff.

It's not about just paying for stuff, I'm referring to considerable differences in earning ability. I'm talking about someone wealthy who can shower you with gifts, take you on holidays all the time etc. I.e. try to create a materialistic environment that a younger rival would be unlikely to match.

Mind you that works in circumstances where the man in question is wealthy. This continuous "princess treatment" masks their ulterior motives. A poor candidate would probably display violence or bullying in place of goodies.

Well said pimpdog.

Wow, even with a quick glance I can see that you are massively generalising.

I'm going to try and respond to the bits that are making my teeth grate, give me a few minutes....

Wow, even with a quick glance I can see that you are massively generalising.

I'm going to try and respond to the bits that are making my teeth grate, give me a few minutes....

heh, dont worry so much about it, indeed I am generalising a lot as I don't have any details on the OPs partner to discuss to any level of detail - so I have to fall back on my general wisdom deposits. Saying that I do think that the type of person OP mentions fits my generalisation just fine.

I don't argue that there will be people at that age or not that act differently and don't fit my stereotyping.

Also, I wouldn't want to derail the thread as the point is to give some advice to the OP (as much as that is feasible over an internet forum).

it makes a refreshing change for someone else to have a beef with what a bloke is saying on this site

keep it light, my friends, please....there is much shit going down elsewhere on the site today

Well, I've had to type this all on Notepad and I'm not binning it now, despite crossing posts with you. I can see you've stated you agree that some of what you say is generalising and doesn't apply across the board. So a lot of this post is going to look silly now. But anyway here it is, and that's my disclaimer. Fwiw.

Ok. I'll start at the beginning:

'It's a function of actual age and age difference and behaviour.

Lovebird behaviour just don't get along with a 60y old guy, even more so when in a relationship with a young pretty woman.'

I don't get this, or if you mean it, why you think this way. I've never met a bloke more lovey dovey than mine. Maybe you've just found it hard to imagine in a 60yo man? Not all men are the same, you know.

'A man 30yo can fall in love with a 20yo. A man 40yo can fall in love with a 20yo. A man 60yo cannot fall in love with a 20yo.' Why on earth not?

'Sure, you can get in love with another person at any age, but the older you get and more mature the less passionate the emotion is and you dont get that "head-over-heels" effect, even more so when there is a huge age gap. I strongly believe (but that's just me, it doesn't make it a fact) that a 60yo cannot fall in love with a woman 30 years younger.

Sorry, but frankly that's just not true at all. You can certainly talk about the OP's relationship in whatever light you like but what you are stating does not hold with every 60yo man. Less passionate the emotion? No head-over-heels effect? REALLY? I think what I'm having trouble with is the thought that someone like my own DP would wish to either entrap me by having a child with me, or make me stay with him by providing financial security. Are you only suggesting this because you think he would be afraid of losing me/OP to someone younger than himself?

Yeah, pretty much. If he had the financial means and a massive insecurity (as the OP partners seems to have) he might as well try it.' Yes, the OP's partner might. I don't discredit my own DP by assuming he adopts that sort of mentality.

'It's not about just paying for stuff, I'm referring to considerable differences in earning ability. I'm talking about someone wealthy who can shower you with gifts, take you on holidays all the time etc. I.e. try to create a materialistic environment that a younger rival would be unlikely to match.

Mind you that works in circumstances where the man in question is wealthy. This continuous "princess treatment" masks their ulterior motives. A poor candidate would probably display violence or bullying in place of goodies.'

Yikes...that's really touched a nerve, because no, I'm not with someone wealthy and neither is he violent or a bully. I can only assumethat this is ONLY referring to people such as the OP's partner, not all men who are with someone considerably younger than themselves.

In short I don't think you can state wthout conpunction that 60 year old men do not fall in love, behave like they are in love, feel like they are in love or genuinely love a much younger woman. I think that's absolutely groundless.

and just look at my syntax in that last bit. Appalling

I won't derail this any more but I do think what we're throwing about is relevant to the actual title of the thread.

Flightty, not everyone believes in "romantic love"

I don't

It's ok though, I can function very well, indeed better in my life without it

I look around me and see many of life's problems are caused by people's over-reliance on it, to the detriment of their well being; people prepared to overlook some seriously red-flag behaviour in the name of it

I am generalising btw, not using any example in mind (but with a nod to the OP, because that is why we are here)

I am off out now, so not ignoring anybody

Absolutely. I agree with you on that. I'm not saying I rely on the soppiness, in fact I'm quite happy without most of it and I hate the 'princess' treatment, I really do find it disturbing and I don't get that from DP anyway. I'm not on about that.

just the overwhelming desire to do things for the other person and be with the other person I suppose...that's the sort of love I mean. Support and genuine conversation and taking care of each other. That is the mainstay. And I'm not pretty anyway though I daresay the OP probably is.

To suggest that an older man can't feel like that about someone younger just seems silly to me.

There are loads of points i just dont know where to start!

But I think I need to add a little clarity to this!

Yes he earns a lot of money, but please don't think I'm swayed by his wealth, put it this way I'll be dammed if HMRC take 50% of my income if things carry on the way they are going, so power and status yes quite frankly I am attracted to (a lot of men are intimidated by me because I have a lot of drive) but actual bank balance - No way - I've got my own :)

I've also not had any past relationships where you might think I am seeking security, strength etc etc. in truth I have always dated older men, but usually 15 years, when we met I thought he was about 50 never 60, but so be it.

He did say to me yesterday he absolutely cringes when he thinks about asking me to delete numbers. However he accepts he'll always feel a bit green eyed monster about me around other men, but he has to learn to control any irrationality. He also says that he accepts that he was attracted to my independence and free- spiritedness and that at times he wishes I was less so, but he also accepts that those thoughts are unreasonable.

I'm really not that stupid to think overnight he is cured, but I actually think this relationship has got legs. It may well be that I am an emotional fuckwit, but I'm trying!

With regards to the age gap, it really doesn't bother me, but what does bother me is when people judge. But then people judge other people without knowing the full story, that's life and I have to accept that I probably make assumptions about all sorts if things myself too!

And thanks to all the responses - I appreciate you taking the time to put across your views :)

I'm really not that stupid to think overnight he is cured, but I actually think this relationship has got legs. It may well be that I am an emotional fuckwit, but I'm trying!

That's what love is all about!

Hey we can all sit and judge all day long, because we're not involved! It's easy to say "do this", "don't do that" when you're a 3rd party.

Only you know the details of the relationship. The only thing I would take from the overwhelming consensus here is to be very careful about any signs of such behaviour in the future, given that super-possessive men do not change.

Just exercise due caution and avoid tying yourself to him in ways (children, joint finances etc.) that you would have to carry with you for years if the relationship ends (which I hope it doesn't), until you are comfortable he has put a leash on those character traits.

Op I am sure you are anything but an emotional fuckwit. x

Well dare you lot say we told you so......I shan't bore you with the details but we barely got through another week.....

I'm a bit hurt, but more pride than anything, but I gave him another chance and he blew it! He is the emotional fuckwit, not me.

At least I know I gave him another chance /:

thanks for updating bekspolo maybe if you hadn't given him another chance you would always have wondered. I think you did the right thing in trying ONE more time. You always came across as a very switched on person to me. I wish you lots of luck.

Well, you live and learn, at least you got out OK.

Out of interest, how did he finally blow it. I was interested in the general debate re controlling men, so I would be interested if you didnt mind saying.

I went to a professional networking dinner with other directors, he offered to babysit, but when I got home (sober) he went nuts at me for going. He then called me a fat ginger slag who he used to fuck. I'm size 10, ginger and certainly no slag......for that got the boot!

Good on you.

His loss.

I know what you mean by a second chance. :)