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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Do they ever change?

119 replies

bekspolo · 09/04/2012 21:07

Ok, I should start from the start!

First things first I'm a 33yr old single mum of one boy now nearly 4. I have somehow managed to be quite successful, I'm amazed at times the life I have, but I singlehanded support my son, His father says I clearly don't need help so he refuses to assist.

Anyway i went on a blind date with a guy I met off the net over a year ago. It was pretty bonkers but we had a connection over email, text and phone calls. We met in a very public place just in case any of you wonder if I'm doolally!

The attraction was instant - which considering it was a bit random I was quite surprised.

We've had an amazing year.......BUT.......he is 27 years old than me. Now the age gap has never bothered me, in fact he looks more like 17 years older, plus he is the fittest man I have ever met (and as someone who races in half ironmans I know a fit man when I see one!). As a bit of background he has a pretty high flying job himself in the medical industry and is at the top of his game. He has 2 children and an ex wife. He is a kind and generous person, and has treated me like an absolute princess. He does earn a ridiculous amount of money, but then I'm ok financially myself - and I've never been attracted to someone for financial gain. And we have our own homes, we don't live together but he did spend about 3 nights a week at mine.

But here's the problem. He it seems had insecurity issues, he had major issues about me being friends with other men, to the point he deleted all male contacts off my personal phone. On our anniversary he went nuts at me for engaging in conversation with another couple - despite the fact that he started the conversation! He gets very edgy if I mention men through my work - which is a bit difficult seeing as though in most situations I am the only woman.

So to cut a long story short 3 weeks ago I broke it off, because of his unreasonable behaviour - in essence he was controlling me, turning me into a nervous wreck. He has not given up, albeit allowed me space, but he has had flowers sent to my work (huge huge flowers) has been supportive when my work was difficult last week, but as a friend. He has allowed me space to move on - except I don't think I can. I love this man but hate him for being such a total div.

However he went to see a work colleague who is a professor of psychology who he asked her to walk him through my he is acting the way he is. He now tells me he understands the way he acted, is utterly mortified at some of the things he has said and done, has learnt from his mistakes and will change.

Am I right to question this? The truth is I am in love with him, but when he's awful he's bloody awful, but when he's brilliant he is absolutely amazing. People say we are soulmates, made for each other. But I'm not sure I can allow him back in my life with the worry that he may not have changed?

Don't know what to do, I'm not letting him go because I think hand on heart I want him back, but I'm frightened of being hurt.

Please be gentle, I appreciate a 27 year age gap may be quite disgusting for some, but genuinely the connection is there.

Thanks

OP posts:
bekspolo · 11/04/2012 20:49

I do know why they split, nothing dramatic!

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 11/04/2012 22:21

I think you are wasting your youth on a dysfunctional old duffer, but there you go, there's no telling you. You will no doubt find that out for yourself.

A 60yo man crying and looking hangdog because his young gf is cheesed off with him? How have you still got any respect for him left ? The man should be in line for an Oscar after that performance.

lazarusb · 12/04/2012 11:06

Reminds me of my ex. He cried, told me about dramatic future scenarios and how he would always look back on our time with sadness, then when he realised that it was over for good, he stabbed himself in the leg in front of me Hmm Twat.

AnyFucker · 12/04/2012 11:08

laz, that is yuk

I hope you walked away at that point with a look of utter contempt on your face

lazarusb · 12/04/2012 11:26

AnyFucker - yes I did Grin I didn't call an ambulance/police or anyone else for him. He'd never done it for me when he dislocated my arm, ripped my hair out, split my lip etc...I actually felt a sense of euphoria walking out for the last time that day.

AnyFucker · 12/04/2012 11:31

something similar happened to me laz

it was when the "penny" finally dropped

so these ridiculous and grandiose dramatic episodes do have their uses sometimes, just not in the way the dramatist hopes Grin

Fairenuff · 12/04/2012 11:34

The self pity and 'woe is me, I can't live without you' could also be a red flag OP. Or he could genuinely have felt devastated that he might have lost you. Only time will tell.

I am wondering about your past relationships though. Why would a young, successful, financially independant, intelligent woman want to saddle herself with such an old man?

I could understand it if you had a lot of fun together, laughing and just chilling out, but he is hard work Confused. After just one year together you are setting strict 'rules' for your relationship when they really should not be needed. You are in the honeymoon period, you should be living it up, having a ball.

What will the future be like for you when he is 81 and you are 54. Do you think you will have a sex life? Do you think he will want to go out with you and your friends?

My friend's dm is in that exact situation now. He is a retired doctor in his 80s and just wants to sit in his chair in the evening. She is young, healthy, fit, has young grandchildren, loads of friends, does evening classes, goes to the gym, etc. She is bored stiff with him. He is dull, dull, dull. They went to a NYE party and he just whined the whole time that he wanted to go home. He can't drive himself so in the end she had to take him. The only reason she hasn't left him is because she feels sorry for him.

She went into this marriage with her eyes open. She was your age, he was charming, distinguished, well respected, financially stable and she was totally smitten with him.

If he does it for you, then good luck, I wish you all the best, but please don't settle for less than you are worth, and I mean that kindly x

Pimpdog · 12/04/2012 12:13

I think I need to disclose I'm a man before anything, so this is a male perspective. Here it goes:

Lol OP, seriously? all this overanalysis for something that is blindingly obvious?

If you're wondering what to do in such circumstances then perhaps you're not as bright as you think - sorry to say.

About the age difference, it sounds like you have an issue with it and looking for confirmation from others. You don't feel at ease with the issue obviously and you hope that others say it's ok to make you qualm your concerns.

My view? Yeah it is an issue. Not because of the difference per se, but because the guy is 60 years old. In all seriousness, how many "good" years do you think he has left that he can keep up with your lifestyle and interests? In 10 years you'll be 43, still quite young and active. Chances are he'll be 70 with a prostate, high blood pressure, arthritis and whatnot - probably taking naps 4 times a day and forgetting to take his pills. Okay, I may be overdramatic but you get the gist of it.

Also, 60 years old and falling in love? Not really..no..just an infatuation with a young virile pretty woman. Men like pretty women, men like independent women as well. However, that poses a problem for him, since you are independent it's hard for him to control you by offering financial security (which makes some women compromise on relationships). You already have a child, so tying you down with one is harder as well.

All that aside, the phone contacts issue, my oh my that's a seriously problematic man. Males do that in their teens, and then get sorted as they really grow up to become mature men. He hasn't got over that. He is totally insecure and that's because he acknowledges the age difference and the fact that he won't be competitive to the other male population for long. That's a serious issue, breach of your privacy etc.etc. I wouldn't stand up to that from anyone, let along a new relationship.

All that bullshit about seeing a psychologist etc. Do you know how many times men say they'll change? I do, every-single-time. Do you know how many times they do change? very-very-few. He is trying to appease you, he is in his posh way grovelling to you to persuade you. He'll just be cleverer next time. He was testing your boundaries and saw your snapping point. He will make sure to get around it next time in a more covert way, growing you more dependent first.

He is too old to change, period, end of, game over. He can pretend (and believe he has) for a long time, that's true. But deep down? He will always be uncomfortable and unhappy when you chat/interact with other men (let alone flirt - ha! imagine that! he'll have a stroke).

I think you may have been out of the game for too long and still think that the love game is played as when you were younger. He's much older, been through much more, and given his status he is used to people slaving under him - not being equal to him.

Also, all these flowers and crap, who really gives a toss? He is wealthy, so spending money doesn't mean anything. I would spend money on my wife if I was rich and I wouldn't bat an eyelid. Because it wouldn't make an effing difference to me. Acts like these have value when they come from people who perform them beyond their means, not within their means. It's going the extra mile that adds value. A man of his wealth and status (as you portray him) has money as no object to getting what he wants, so it's all more difficult as providing a persuading argument would require him to show bahavioural changes, not sending you Kew Gardens at your desk.

Also, about flowers and trinkets..you might find them romantic and feel your knees womble due to the romance. Men see them as the-things-I-have-to-do-to-soften-her-up. Flowers have no importance for me, I just see them as a way to improve my wive's mood when I've done something wrong heh.

Anyway, you're old enough and should know better but you have your blinders on. I'm not saying not to give the guy a chance, but know it's not going to end up in a soulmate relationships as your friends tell you (and you love to believe). Give him another chance and have some fun (if you can) but don't expect more and don't invest more emotionally until you are dead sure he has changed (hey miracles can happen I've heard - but never seen one). Just remember that it's much easier for him to find someone who will yield to his demands than make the effort to change. Sad but true. Once he "gets" you, he will lose interest probably.

Now (some) ladies of the forum, start your engines and fire at whatever you can construe (rightfully or not) as misogynistic and medieval in my viewpoints.

However, I do demand brownie points for actually putting in an honest effort to analyse and advise the OP on her situation. This was not a trolling attempt.

Having said all that, I'm out!

Fairenuff · 12/04/2012 12:27

I think you talk a lot of sense pimpdog especially about leopards and their spots. This man is an old dog and he isn't going to learn new tricks now, imo.

AnyFucker · 12/04/2012 12:35

Pimpdog, I have scrutinised your post very thoroughly Wink and I agree with you

Miggsie · 12/04/2012 12:38

Read a Lundy Bancroft book and discover they do not change, and in the rare cases they do, it takes YEARS of therapy, not 1 hour with someone.

He is telling you any old crap to keep you around.

Pimpdog is correct.

Flightty · 12/04/2012 12:54

I don't like the bit about the phone, that's appalling. And not wanting you to speak to other men.

I'm not sure, about the wanting to change/realising he has to change thing.

Sometimes I think people/men are actually quite vulnerable especially as they become older and find that their lives have not turned out how they wanted them to. And they find someone much younger and it does inspire them to change.

I dunno....letting you into my own relationship a little here, but my DP is 18 years older than me. Which is not such a huge gap as yours but still.

I don't know if he is just infatuated because I'm younger than him, maybe so, but he behaves as though he loves me and is really supportive and kind.
He does get worried when I am around other men, I can see it in his eyes and I tease him if he says anything that might be construed as a hint, but he knows I wouldn't let him control me for a moment, even if he tried to. I've already suggested that he leave a couple of times (not for that - but right at the beginning when he hadn't sorted out his own issues) and so he is well aware that I take no shit, and honestly I don't think he wants to give me any.

Also he has a vastly different background to me and there are some ways in which he has already changed, since we got together, because, he says, he has had enough of being like he was, and he's seen how I live my life and he likes it. So he's sort of been inspired by that. (it wasn't anything awful btw - just certain habits etc).

I've made it clear I'm independant and he knows it. I think on some level he would seek to tie me down, to make me depend on him more, and though in some ways this is welcome, in others I need just to keep my own boundaries and wait for him to get used to it, because I refuse to put my entire life in his hands.

He's never done anything with my phone. He wouldn't. And if he stops behaving as I need and expect him to, he's history. But so far he hasn't. And he wouldn't try and manipulate me with flowers either.

I do think people can change but I also think your partner has behaved really badly towards you. Jealousy CAN be changed, if he makes a concerted effort to do this - it's something that often responds well to certain psychological therapies and interventions. But he has to mean it and he has to prove it.

If you do love him and want him in your life then there's nothing any of us can say to take that away. I know how you feel. But make sure you know it may not work out, he may not change, and you may lose respect for him if he continues to behave in this manner.

MardyArsedMidlander · 12/04/2012 12:55

Beware of men who cry. It's true that men who cry are sensitive to and in touch with feelings, but the only feelings they tend to be sensitive to and in touch with are their own.
Nora Ephron

Flightty · 12/04/2012 13:02

'My view? Yeah it is an issue. Not because of the difference per se, but because the guy is 60 years old. In all seriousness, how many "good" years do you think he has left that he can keep up with your lifestyle and interests?'

Crikey...my ex is 50, my DP is 57. I'm 38. I think they're both fitter than me. I don't have a lifestyle I expect him to keep up with. We just love each other and yes when he is old I will be caring for him, probably, and I want to be the one to do that. Because I love him and he loves me. I think DP worries about that far more than I do tbh.

'Also, 60 years old and falling in love? Not really..no..just an infatuation with a young virile pretty woman. Men like pretty women, men like independent women as well. However, that poses a problem for him, since you are independent it's hard for him to control you by offering financial security (which makes some women compromise on relationships). You already have a child, so tying you down with one is harder as well.'

Can you elaborate a bit Pimpdog? Does this mean that a man who is only say, 10 years older than his partner is only 'infatuated' or are you putting this more in the context of the OP's partner's behaviour than his age? Do 60yo men not fall in love?

Why would his age mean he wanted to control her, more say than a man her own age who was a bit of a twat?

I think what I'm having trouble with is the thought that someone like my own DP would wish to either entrap me by having a child with me, or make me stay with him by providing financial security. Are you only suggesting this because you think he would be afraid of losing me/OP to someone younger than himself?

I do find that rather disturbing...I don't think it's occurred to me or DP that I would leave him if he didn't pay for stuff.

pictish · 12/04/2012 13:05

One of my fave quotes Mardy.

Anyway yes - so one sesh with a shrink and it's all change is it? I really don't think so.
He sounds like an emotionally immature, manipulative, controlling shit, and I echo Anyfucker when she says you are wasting your youth on him. I agree.
What risable behaviour from a man old enough to be your father.

You can do better AND younger.

AnyFucker · 12/04/2012 13:06

Beware the Charming Man. He wishes to part you from your common sense.

AF, 2012

Flightty · 12/04/2012 13:08

I'm so glad mine isn't charming at all Grin

AnyFucker · 12/04/2012 13:08

Flighty, I think people are picking up on this individual 60yo man's behaviour, not older men in general

Flightty · 12/04/2012 13:09

Ah that's good AF

I get all defensive about old gits blokes nowadays.

AnyFucker · 12/04/2012 13:12

I would say the same about any bloke that behaved like this whether he is 30, 40, 50 or 90

I think the fact he is 60 is worrying in that he is much less likely to change than say, someone who is 30 (his ingrained attitudes being much more established)

pictish · 12/04/2012 13:12

Yes AF I agree.

Flightty · 12/04/2012 13:18

I'm no longer sure of that, you see.

I've been out with various and randomly abusive/borderline abusive men as you well know, and most of them were much younger. I don't hold out hope that any of them would have been likely to change in any significant way, almost purely because they were young, didn't understand that they couldn't get away with the crap behaviour, and didn't see any reason to change as they were still within that special, entitled age group that meant they didn't have to have found someone to marry them yet.

In other words they were able to stay in denial and quite liked their own company anyway thankyou...it was the woman's fault, in every situation.

Now I have met DP I can see that he is far less changeable in some ways - his thought processes and patterns are fairly ingrained, as you suggest they might be but there are also aspects that he WANTS very much to change, or did want to (and did change them) partly because he is older, fearful of not ever being loved by someone as wonderful as me in the way he wants to be loved, and fearful also of being rejected for someone younger. He doesn't have time for even his own nonsense any more. It's now or never.

And an older man has often got far more insight, and is less angry and more mellow...I dunno, my experience as I say has been the opposite of what you are saying. Which is interesting.

Flightty · 12/04/2012 13:21

What I mean is yes, his upbringing etc is all stuck there, that can't be messed with now, it's who he is/was etc and that's that. But his behaviour is certainly far, far more controlled, and he can have a word with himself, as well as taking far more criticism/crap/demands/insecurity etc from me because he is more stable and confident on deeper levels I think.

Like an older parent, or a grandparent is often more able to cope with the things children do than a very young parent. They have more tolerance, more self control, they've seen it all before and in their unchangingness they're somehow far more adaptable. It's a paradox.

AnyFucker · 12/04/2012 13:23

flightty, your bloke simply sounds like a better man than the one described here

there are plenty of them around, the ones that learn from past mistakes like we all do

some people keep on making the same ones over and over, regardless of years on the clock

Flightty · 12/04/2012 13:26

Yes...and thankyou. I never thought I would hear that from you AF Smile

I just meant that Pimpdog was seeming to generalise about older men. I'd like to know what he meant.

And that I do think older men can change, possibly moreso than younger ones.