Do they ever change?

[bekspolo]

Ok, I should start from the start!

First things first I'm a 33yr old single mum of one boy now nearly 4. I have somehow managed to be quite successful, I'm amazed at times the life I have, but I singlehanded support my son, His father says I clearly don't need help so he refuses to assist.

Anyway i went on a blind date with a guy I met off the net over a year ago. It was pretty bonkers but we had a connection over email, text and phone calls. We met in a very public place just in case any of you wonder if I'm doolally!

The attraction was instant - which considering it was a bit random I was quite surprised.

We've had an amazing year.......BUT.......he is 27 years old than me. Now the age gap has never bothered me, in fact he looks more like 17 years older, plus he is the fittest man I have ever met (and as someone who races in half ironmans I know a fit man when I see one!). As a bit of background he has a pretty high flying job himself in the medical industry and is at the top of his game. He has 2 children and an ex wife. He is a kind and generous person, and has treated me like an absolute princess. He does earn a ridiculous amount of money, but then I'm ok financially myself - and I've never been attracted to someone for financial gain. And we have our own homes, we don't live together but he did spend about 3 nights a week at mine.

But here's the problem. He it seems had insecurity issues, he had major issues about me being friends with other men, to the point he deleted all male contacts off my personal phone. On our anniversary he went nuts at me for engaging in conversation with another couple - despite the fact that he started the conversation! He gets very edgy if I mention men through my work - which is a bit difficult seeing as though in most situations I am the only woman.

So to cut a long story short 3 weeks ago I broke it off, because of his unreasonable behaviour - in essence he was controlling me, turning me into a nervous wreck. He has not given up, albeit allowed me space, but he has had flowers sent to my work (huge huge flowers) has been supportive when my work was difficult last week, but as a friend. He has allowed me space to move on - except I don't think I can. I love this man but hate him for being such a total div.

However he went to see a work colleague who is a professor of psychology who he asked her to walk him through my he is acting the way he is. He now tells me he understands the way he acted, is utterly mortified at some of the things he has said and done, has learnt from his mistakes and will change.

Am I right to question this? The truth is I am in love with him, but when he's awful he's bloody awful, but when he's brilliant he is absolutely amazing. People say we are soulmates, made for each other. But I'm not sure I can allow him back in my life with the worry that he may not have changed?

Don't know what to do, I'm not letting him go because I think hand on heart I want him back, but I'm frightened of being hurt.

Please be gentle, I appreciate a 27 year age gap may be quite disgusting for some, but genuinely the connection is there.

Thanks

AF/Eggyfucker speaks as ever a huge amount of sense. Difficulty seems that you at the moment have some hopes and there is a cat's whisker of a chance that he is beginning to understand that his behaviour may cost him his relationship.
A compromise would be tell him you don't want any contact for a month at the very least or perhaps more.
Go no contact and tell him to respect that. Read some of the other relationship posts here and concentrate on the stuff you do without him.
He sounds very driven which is a trait of controlling people, and this stuff doesn't change in a flash of light and without some very hard work.

I would say that if you would still like to be with him, you need to talk to his ex-wife.

Over the years, sending flowers (especially to work - why did he do that? Does he know that your network think he is the bee's knees and will back him up with daft comments about how amazing he is?) has become a red flag for me. Too easy. I know two men who do it, one is a serial player and the other is now my XH.

No I don't think he will change as a result of a chat with a colleague. If you want to be with him, accept that, at best, you can kiss goodbye to feeling relaxed in your relationship. You felt stressed and 'a nervous wreck' before. IMO this will happen again.

We're not back together, some things I've learnt cannot get resolved over night!

And yes I do have a whisker of hope, I can't help feeling that way, but I am also not foolish enough to realise that a lifetime if traits won't amend in 3 weeks.

Anyway have to go and run a business now, a lot bloody easier than dealing with relationships!!!

You seem like you've got a fabulous, independent life with your DC. I just can't see why you'd settle for anything less than a man that compliments and enhances that.

The age thing raises a couple of points in my mind though. The first, that he's behaving like a twat for a person of his time of life. The second that in a few years he will be retiring and will have even more time and less outside interests to divert him - at that point his controllingness may become his only occupation.

I reckon your instincts have been right so far.

Well I'd see it one of two ways - you either believe that someone who has been jealous and controlling and manipulative will ALWAYS be like that; or you hold on to your glimmer of hope and find out whether it is possible for this man to change.

Where I agree totally with many posters is that ONE single lighbulb moment is not going to make the difference that this man needs. So takining him back solely on that basis would seem foolish.

However, in my experience people exhibit particular behaviours as a consequence of what their life experiences have taught them. So if this man has learned not to trust people, and has learned controlling ways in which to get what he wants, then some of it can be unlearned. It is not impossible that an intelligent man has suddenly been shown on a thoretical basis what is going on, but there is a big gap between that and being able to effect behavioural change.

I'd suggest that if he is serious about making changes, then he also needs to get serious about finding out about CBT or other therapy that can help him understand more deeply how he feels on a day-to-day basis (not just in retrospect) and to engage in therapy that will help him change how he thinks and acts. His friend who is a psychiatrist would be able to advise him about effective courses of therapy and skilled and competent professionals.

And btw, I think such a course of action should also include some 'couples' therapy to ensure that both your voices are being heard.

I think the OP wants a partner, not a case-study... She doesn't need therapy.

I do have a problem with the age difference.

One reason is that he's old enough to know better. He's had 42 years of being an adult and he's behaving like an immature and jealous 15 year old boy. I don't think he would have admitted the extent of his behaviour to anyone as it shows him in a really bad light. I also think one conversation doesn't change 42 years of behaviour and beliefs. Twenty years in therapy might, but he doesn't exactly have the time for that, does he?

Another reason is that when you are 53 he will be 83. Believe me (voice of experience) at 53 you do NOT want a man of 83. Yes, he would want a 53 year old but not vice versa. Have you any idea how limiting your life would be, when you'd be at an age where your child would have left home and you'd have loads of energy to try new things?

You are in such a strong position with your business and your son and being the age you are now. If this man was 100% perfect, I'd counsel you against a serious involvement. He's not. He's controlling and jealous and is desperately trying to limit your life. Please don't go back with him - you know you will regret it.

Yes people can change.

My husband was extremely jealous and terrified of abandonment when we first got together. Would fly into passionate rages saying I would cheat on him. Would check up on me, text constantly while I was out. This was partly because he had 3 serious relationships (one marriage) where his partners cheated on him. He basically ended up fearing ALL women were like that - or at least that he deserved it and it was inevitable.

4 years later he never, ever bothers me when I am out, is not at all possessive, jealous or controlling and trusts me entirely. Over time he came to trust that I am not like his exes, he came to believe in the strength of our relationship and he also improved his own self-esteem. But it took patience and time and not everyone is inclined to commit to that - especially if you have a child to focus on.

Like you I have a very good career and am financially secure and independent. I was happy to be reassuring to him but also put my foot down and stamp on unreasonable behaviour / demands. I wasn't dependent on him in any way so could ignore his strops and tell him to stop being ridiculous if I so wished. Usually I was more kind than that though which helped more than being hardline.

The thing is though, my H was early 30s and to be honest fairly malleable / open to change. That behaviour in a man in his 60s is likely to be FAR more ingrained.

Do you think he is actually for more insecure about the age difference than he is letting on? That may be the biggest trigger for his jealousy.

yes people can change but it takes time for change to happen, and then a lot of time for those changes to be automatic . Also the dynamics between two people will always be different as you are dealing with unique individuals and so a unique relationship.

I'll second what imperial and a couple of others have said as I also think the age difference will become an issue and if you aren't sure about things then better to end it now . Being with a man so much older than you is going to limit your choices in the long term and may even have a negative impact on your son, at 14 this man will be 70. Maybe he will worry when he gets older about you having to look after someone. What sort of life will you share in 20 years? and yes maybe the relationship won't last that long but at 33 you are still young enough to have your pick of men and go on to have more kids (if you want that), believe me internet dating after 40 gets a lot less fun.

He has told me that the age gap has made him feel insecure, but he didn't realise that until recently. He also at times has said to me that I could have my pick of men (I always took that as an insecurity issue) - He tells me that i have a strong resemblance to Julianne Moore - personally I think it's just the red hair and I can't see it at all - but I've been told it before by others and again he used to joke "why me" when you could have anyone. Yes alarm bells, but I'm not perfect!

Truthfully I have not even glanced at another man, had no interest, and he agreed after we split that he knows I am only interested in him.

Imperialblether yes I do think about that, yes we have talked about it, yes it does worry me, and no we haven't properly run through the consequences.

Sorry typo - he knew I was only, not he knows ....

When I met my h he was clear from the start that it had to be a monogamous relationship, before I was ready for it. I agreed, but did think he had a few jealousy issues to be so bothered about it so early- ie first date.

Twenty two years later, and guess who turned out to be the cheater?

And for a good long time, too, lying through his teeth.

I do think that jealousy is linked to control, that it isnt about you, but about deep seated insecurities in themselves. Oh, and I also think that the more independent and successful you are yourself, the more they like it- it reflects on them, they think.

If he is thinking at all to sort himself out, I dont think a trip to see a mate will cut it, and I dont believe he did, anyway.

No real advice, but I would have thought he needed to show a willingness to work a lot harder than this on his issues if he isnt to be a mistake in the long run.

It's chapter 3 in the Control Freak's Handbook sorry. Blame her for your failings but spin it to sound like a compliment. 'I wouldn't be so jealous if you weren't so gorgeous'... 'I'm only possessive because I'm frightened of losing you'.... 'I wouldn't act so unreasonably if I didn't love you so much'.... 'the thought of losing you makes me do crazy things'.

Crap, crap, crap and... let's see... crap.

i know you love him but please consider , his behaviour is very worrying. Some men will say anything to get themselves out of a hole, how can you trust him? Better to believe what you have seen and experienced with your own eyes and remember at 33 you have a huge pool of men who are looking for a woman around your age. The pool dwindles the older you get. I'm pretty certain that you will regret it if you stay with him. The best way to get over something like this is go for no contact. Contact only reinforces feelings and it gives the other person hope. Throw yourself into things you enjoy, internet date for fun if you want male attention (even if you have intention of getting involved with anyone new yet some flirting is a wonderful distraction ) and spend time on yourself and your son. The pain of missing him will lessen in time.

Have to agree with the others observations about 1. the age difference becoming a MUCH bigger problem down the line and b. you still being viewed as prime rib right now in the dating world but soon being relegated to "only fit for haggis stuffing" if you end up back on the market in 10 years time.

OP, I really don't have experience of dealing with jealous, possesive partners to this extent. My DP was extrememly insecure about my ex (who I was in regular contact with due to DD) in the first few years of our relationship. Admittedly she didn't do anything as agressive as you have suggested your DP did but several years on things are absolutely fine. DP was very untrusting because she had been treated badly in the past but is now absolutely fine in fact she gets on very well with my ex.

My MIL was also absolutely hideous when she first came to live near us, I mean abusive, completely impossible to please, totally resentful and miserable and now, 4 years later she is SO much calmer, kinder and nicer to be around. She was a deeply unhappy woman who actually felt isolated and lonely. I do believe that people can change but I also agree that you should be firm in your warnings that if your DP doesn't improve then that is the end.

CogitoErgoSometimes you actually made me chuckle - probably spot on if I can get my head around it!

Just arrived back home as dreadfully ill, shouldn't have even give into work, my PA handed me back my car keys and walked me out if the office! I think feeling unwell has clouded my judgement in all of this.

I think you should trust your instincts without a doubt. I do also think the age gap is a bad thing in this case combined with the possessiveness. Do you really think that he is capable of overcoming a lifetime's worth of behaviour and thought patterns in just a few weeks with no real effort at all? Or is it more likely that he is saying what he thinks you want to hear in the hope that it will wear you down and you'll give in?

I think that if you go back, you will seriously regret that decision in the future. Men like that don't change, in my opinion, not at his age.

You have the world at your feet and can do so much better than a man who tries to control you. The 'treating you like a princess' rings massive alarm bells as well. In the Lundy Bancroft book he talks about that. Red flags all over this one I'm afraid.

Run and don't look back Beks!

Well I thought I should update. We are giving it another go.

I'm sure a lot will be alarmed by that, but there are very strict ground rules. Firstly we see each other once a week on my terms. Secondly that he has therapy. There are other ones that "protect" me, so please don't assume I'm going back into this without fully having thought it through.

I should add that I've never seen him in the desperation I saw him in today. He's lost 20lbs, looked absolutely dreadful and whilst not crying was very tearful. I'm not saying its "back on" as such but I am hanging into that whisker of hope, any signal remotely of any of the shenanigans prior he showed and it's all over.

I did speak to his wife, that was REALLY fun, not!! She basically gave me such a hard time (no idea why!) but was very enlightening, put it this way he showed her little affection (he always said he never loved her) but she was pretty surprised at the way he had been with me, said he'd been the complete opposite way with her - so I feel comforted that this is not a trait.

And he def did see a psychologist. He accepts he is not cured, but really wants to make it work. He also admits he became obsessive with me. I guess time will tell.

Ha typo - ex wife! And they were together 20 yrs.

Well, good luck. But I don't think him being all miserable is necessarily a point in his favour - in my experience control freak types often react like this when they are dumped, as they absolutely cannot bear the loss of control that being dumped involved. Over the time their behaviour will then revert to normal.

PS I expect his ex-wife was hacked off that after all those years treating her badly he is now being all spaniel-eyed about you. I don't imagine that as a 60-something woman she has attractive 30-year-old men queueing at her door and the situation does highlight the inequity between the sexes.

How come he's so old and so single? I speak as an old person myself, btw. It just seems that someone must be very difficult to live with if they have no partner at 60 ( without being a widow/er). I've met a few on Explore type holidays and the older,single ones always have something a bit not quite right about them. (Mind you, some of the couples are a bit bonkers too).

His ex is 15 yrs his junior and very very attractive!

I don't think he can help his age ;)

None of us can help our age. Why did they split up? I don't need to know, but you might want to. I need to go and rub some embrocation in now and have a glass of Sanatogen.