Sensitive question about H

[ThreeLittlePandas]

I've been putting off asking this because I'm scared of what your answers might be. I'm really evaluating my relationship with h atm and wondering wether to leave him and I think the answer to my question might heavily influence my decision.

in advance.

Dh and I rarely have sex. When we do it is rather boring but he is considerate.

The other evening I went to bed early as I was desperately tired. I was woken a few hours later my dh who had his fingers in me. I was heavily asleep and by the time I realised what was happening he was having sex with me. He finished quickly and that was it. I really hadn't wanted to have sex and feel like I wasn't given an option. The next day I felt a bit angry and almost violated to be honest.

I'm not looking for anything other than an opportunity to talk this through because it's been bothering me. This is about the third time in the last couple of years that something like this has happened.

Allergic - I think whether or not OP's husband "sees it as rape" is a non-issue here. What he knows is that she really, really doesn't like it and she has asked him not to do it in future - and he goes ahead and does it again. Whatever he thinks it's called, it's hateful.

(((HUGS))) (sorry thats a bit OtherPlace) to TLP and TwoPeas - I remember your thread well.

Allergic - how would you explain the husbands response to this, given that last time he was asked he was hugely apologetic and sorry. Now he seems angry that he has been told again. As if his apology covers everything- he is sorry BUT it wont stop him, and he is angry with her for compalining about it?

And now he has started the snippy snippy blaming and nastyness IN FRONT OF THE KIDS to make her nervous and back down.

Pandas, was your mum always right? Did you have to surpress your feelings and needs to always fit in with what she wanted?

TLP - again not the same thing at all but I was recently dealing with a phobia where actually saying a word out loud was the problem (only realise that now of course...afterwards) anyway like a thunderbolt I realised I could email and have now moved through it. You could just copy your first post from here, I hope that you can see you were totally clear and coherent in that.

Good luck love, you're coping incredibly well, I feel like it must seem to be life through some kind of detached odd telescope at the moment, but that will pass, it's only out of focus while you take back control I promise.

TLP- my advice and what I am doing myself, is take your time making decisions, but foremost take steps for you and your self confidence. If you feel something is 'wrong' about him, you know your instincts and you know all the little nuances you are basing that feeling on. Regardless of how good he is in other aspects of life- it is easy to be a good cook, father etc and also have a porn or rape obsession that eventually spills into a real relationship in what they perceive to be an 'acceptable' way- eg. not beating you black and blue, snarling in your face or any other rape cliches. It is still inexcusable. I have a compulsion to tell you to keep your medication AWAY from him if it can make you sleepy- make sure you are on the correct dose and it cannot be tampered with, just as a short term insurance that you will be safe.

I have no choice in my own situation but to stay calm etc because of imminent birth, but thankyou so much for kind words. but stage one is removing myself/yourself mentally from him- you dont need to expalin it to anyone, or even make it public in RL,I havent, its your house/life/emotions, you owe nobody an explanation. This applies even more to a man who everybody else thinks is 'the salt of the earth' and a good moral sort etc.. they havent gone through what he has done to you specifically, so they have a skewed opinion based on what they do see of that man.

TwoPeas :(

FWIW I can totally see why some posters are desperately trying to minimise this. I think a lot of people think that unless you're distraught, beaten to a pulp, feel like your world is ending, etc then it wasn't rape. Rape doesn't have to be this massive thing that ruins your life. Like I said before, my ex raped me. I wasn't devastated after it, just pissed off. In one sense it was a good thing because it finally showed me once and for all that our relationship was shit. All the good stuff didn't outweigh his basic selfishness. He wasn't your classic, down an alleyway rapist, he was just a thoughtless idiot who didn't consider his actions before he carried them out. I still talk to him and don't have any particular feelings of anger towards him, in fact I feel quite sorry for him as he is very lonely due to his immature behaviour.

Rape is sex without consent. There doesn't have to be any violence, any malicious intent, anything else to make it rape. You don't even have to feel bad about it. I would never report my ex for what he did because I don't think he's a criminal, though technically he did commit a crime. Equally I would never trust him. He made a play for my sister and I very strenuously warned her off.

I am so saddened by what some women choose to view as normal, acceptable behaviour. My DH would be horrified at the idea of having sex with my body when I was passed out from alcohol/asleep. All the boyfriends I've had would have been horrified by it. It's like them using your body as a wank sock. Sex is about two people.

How do people come to see this as ok?

That's a huge question NarkedPuffin. Mainly I think it's because women are brought up to feel like men's have these uncontrollable urges that they're not responsible for, and that their role is to help them with those urges. They're given the message that if they don't "help" then they're not doing their duty.

I've often found myself apologising to DH when I don't want sex. It annoys him profusely because, he says it makes it feel like I think I owe him sex and that he'll be pissed off if I say no. And you know what deep down I do feel that.

men have these uncontrollable urges

Cailin I agree, there is definitely a 'spectrum of rape' (I am so sorry for how crass and thoughtless that sounds when written down like that) I hope you see what I'm getting at? I mean in society and how it is viewed.eg by your own husband, or random stranger with a knife etc. I just didnt want unhelpful posters minimising whats happening to ThreePandas personally, just based on their own opinions/experiences, becasue her posts strike a chord with me in that (imo) she is trying to get 'validation' for feeling there is something wrong, when really it would be easily swept under the carpet by a lot of women. Sometimes it is the hardest thing to realise that you are right, and you need to take massive steps to sort out something that could instead be glossed over, but would ultimately lead you to despair and breakdown if you continue to minimise it. (apols TLP if Ive got the wrong end of the stick there)

Eg. I KNOW rape porn sickens me, I know what my P downloaded was wrong and awful and a death knell, yet still I came and posted here seeking validation that I wasn't just being out of touch with fetish porn or anything, basically that I wasn't throwing my entire life set up/ relationship away. Even though I did instinctively know it was wrong and I couldnt forgive it. Its all so complicated isnt it! seems never bloody ending, stuck as I am on a carousel of new discoveries and looking back at things like this and suddenly realising the whole thing is a massive problem.

I'm aware of that feeling too CailinDana. I do feel I should be in the mood when he is. I recognise it as irrational and ignore it, but it's still there.

NettleTea yes, you are spot on about my mum. I always had to suppress my feelings. She was always right and we were never allowed to express our feelings in any way. I left home at a young age because I felt so suffocated by her.

charbon ds told me not long ago that his pc games are always crashing and the pc is running slow. That sounds like some kind of virus doesn't it? I'm going to have a good look later on.

TwoPeas ((hugs))

See, I just been looking at my local rape counselling service website and they talk about a women been "attacked". That's why I'm so confused. Dh didn't attack me. He just did it. I just can't get my head around it.

Rape Crisis would be better. They never use words like that, or try to minimise rape in any circumstances. Being generous perhaps the person who wrote that copy wasn't one of the counselling team, but it would put me off using them if they were that inefficient and allowed messages like that to go out in their name. I think the wrong counsellor in these situations can increase the damage, so choose carefully and consider the national experts alongside others.

Yes your DS is giving you a clue there. I'm glad you're going to have a look at the PC, but try not to click on to any links you find. Sadly the horrible stuff is normally obvious by its name alone and it is titled accordingly so that rapists and rapists-in-the-making will be attracted to download it.

I agree TwoPeas. It's easier for posters to say "No that isn't rape, it's not that bad, perhaps there's another explanation" than to admit that it is rape and that they've been raped themselves. That's a massive thing to admit. If there is anyone out there struggling with that realisation, just bear in mind that if you have been raped, it doesn't mean you have to go straight to the police or immediately phone the solicitor for a divorce. You might choose to accept, ok it is rape, but you're not willing to turn your life upside down because of it. That's ok too, just make sure you're making the right decision for yourself, and not just giving in for the sake of a quiet life.

I can understand that feeling TLP. There is a very strong and misleading public image of rape as this massively traumatic event that leaves you injured, broken and sobbing your heart out. In some cases, that's what happens, but in many other cases, it happens exactly like it did to you, the rapist sees his opportunity and takes it and there is no violence or any "attack" involved. IMO the idea of an "attack" is one of the most pernicious rape myths in that it causes so many women to put up with low-level ongoing sexual assault because they can't mentally frame it in terms of an "attack." Any sexual encounter that you don't want is an assault and any sex that you don't want is rape, no matter what else happens around it and no matter what your reaction to it is.

Does anyone think it is possible to salvage a relationship after something like this? Reading the responses, most people seem to be saying if your dp rapes you that means the end. I am not being flippant, I really want to know if there can be any coming back from it.
TLP, I'm really sorry you're going through this. Hang in there, you will find your way through.

It totally depends Spink. I once had a situation with DH where he was very rough with me. He held my hands down and when I wriggled he sort of laughed and got more excited. I totally freaked out and screamed at him to get off me, which he did. I was very shaken up by what happened and for a while I couldn't go near him. But, his reaction to the whole thing reassured me that it was a genuine mistake. He honestly thought I was enjoying it and was absolutely mortified at upsetting me. He did everything he could to make me feel safe and I began to trust him again. That was about 8 years ago and nothing remotely similar has happened since. I trust him completely.

In the OP's case her husband did those more than once before, so it wasn't a mistake or a misunderstanding. He didn't show any remorse when she told him how she felt, instead he was nasty to her. In that case, it is absolutely not possible to save the relationship IMO.

For me, no.

Because it's not just the act but what it says about the man doing it. Rape doesn't happen in a vacuum and it means that there are attitudes, values and beliefs that are so ingrained that they have shaped the man and permitted his behaviour. None of us can change someone else's character or behaviour, we can only change our response to it.

Spink I think it depends.

I think that it is possible for someone to get caught in a moment iyswim and end up doing something that after the event they realize is wrong, or even doing something that they thought their partner would enjoy, and then being mortified when they realize, or are told, that this is not the case. I can even see that a man might, for instance, think that his partner might enjoy being woken up by being touched/explored/even maybe penetrated, in the same way that some men enjoy being woken up by their partner going down on them, and not realizing that the woman feels violated by it.

So yes I think that if it's a one off thing that the man then realizes and acknowledges he is in the wrong and it never happens again, then it is salvageable in that instance.

But if the woman has expressed that it makes her uncomfortable and he continues then no, I couldn't come back from that.

don't get hung up on the word attack love, honestly.

In time you may be able to look at this and see that your husband putting his fingers inside you without your consent is an attack, but please don't let that word be the thing that convinces you he or anyone else is correct to minimise it. If he put his fingers in your mouth it wouldn't be ok.. Someone earlier on said something about what would you do if your husband made you a cup of tea and then held you down and poured it down your throat without making sure you even wanted to drink it?

Your husband is working to minimise what he has done to you and whatever you decide to do he needs to understand that you are not comfortable with the disrespect he has shown you. It's your body and your say so about what you do and don't want is absolutely quite enough.

Keep talking where you can.