DP's career and family always come first

[Anna1976]

So what, you say...

the minor difference is that we don't have kids... i have a slightly more high-powered career than he does... and a while back we had a conversation about priorities having to change if kids were going to happen.

Since then, I have used up my own annual leave to singlehandedly shop for, cook for, and entertain his elderly parents, because he was too busy with work and couldn't understand that you don't leave a couple of 77+ year olds at a loose end in central london... i have left alone my own elderly parents because he threw a strop about me not coming to all his family events..... and now he's off to a conference, leaving me using my annual leave once again, to shop for, cook for and entertain friends coming to visit him (not me, they don't like me), because he has invited them to our flat and can't see the problem and is saying "well just get some takeaways, you earn enough" - great - takeaways for the 1 & 3 year old kids, for example.

Now i know there could be a middle ground, i could tell his family and friends to entertain themselves - but frankly I am fed up with him never changing his priorities. A big part of his self-definition is what a lovely set of friends and a lovely family he has - but it's always me doing all the bloody work, me buying the christmas and birthday presents, me doing all the cooking when they come to visit, me entertaining them as opposed to just talking about my own career...

Oh and he doesn't do holidays, except to visit his family. He has never initiated any activity that hasn't been a social occasion with his friends... no concerts, no art galleries, no films, no museums, no holidays, unless I organise the lot - and if we do anything like that, he spends most of the time talking about his work.

Anyone got more positive solutions than "leave the bastard"? At the moment it sounds quite attractive... I could use my annual leave to go on holidays/to concerts, mseums, galleries by myself and enjoy the lack of discussion of "D"P's work...

''it's if you didn't like Tallis or Stanford you'd actually have a bloody hard time living with me. And i would find you nice but unliveably boring if you couldn't talk about number theory over dinner. And if you were not kind, you would probably not like me.''

Anna, you anywhere near Oxford? You really need to meet my BIL.
(Actually... are you my BIL?)

hehe Lancelottie - probably not your BIL (last time I checked I was female)

OK that makes a lot more sense Anna - sorry that I didn't give more thought as to why the list may be a bit "clinical."

I think the key point is that being on the spectrum does not mean that you should settle for someone who takes advantage of you but I do understand that it may mean your priorities may be slightly different. Though as someone married to a geek I never fail to be amazed at how many people there are who seem to want to discuss number theory!

All the advice about how you cannot change someone will, unfortunately, still apply but it may be that you can teach yourself not to attempt to fill the gaps for him - certainly the using up your own leave for his relatives / friends is a complete no. I wonder (forgive amateur shrink moment) if you are trying to improve social interactions with others and in so doing, ending up doing far more than you really need to - basically overcompensating, and he is loving the fact that you run round on his behalf.

Anna :(

I know what you mean about thinking you couldn't possibly be on your own. I've always felt like that due to MH issues (I'm actually going to ask the GP tomorrow to refer me for an Aspergers assessment, after posting my own thread last week) - there are so many aspects of life that I just cannot cope with.

There's a difference though - my DH is a good, unselfish, thoughtful man. He does a lot more than looks after me. That is a BIG difference, it really is.

It is not worth having somebody in your life who drags you down.

Do you have support for the Aspergers? CBT or anything?

Number theory kicks ass BTW :o

Irrespective of your AS, or no, actually MORE SO because of your AS, you need someone who is actually going to support you, not just 'understand what you are like'.

Number theory at the dinner table is all well and good. But there are plenty of people who can do this (even me at a push). He isn't treating with you with respect and he probably isn't going to.

You are clearly a very intelligent and capable please don't sell yourself short. Living on your own isn't scary you just need lists (and cross referencing spreadsheet)

I've read through your thread. Whilst reading through it I started to wonder if either of you might have aspergers, and yes it's you. Does your partner have a variation of that or is he the selfish academic type person?

I am in academia and I have colleagues who are like that. One is married with 2 young kids similar aged to mine. And all our mutual friends cannot bear him (but put up with him as our kids go to nursery together) as he's constantly talking about work (at parties, after church, at lunch, walking across campus, at nursery pickup). He always has to tell someone about some paper, some findings. The only time he doesn't talk about work he talks about people at work in an angry aggressive manner.

The wife deals with everything else.

My boss sounds the same. Long suffering wife too.

These two men have non academic wives. Ie they're the lower/non earners, person in charge of home-business. I don't know if their home life would have gone to pot if they had equally successful wives who wanted to talk about number theory or go on conferences leaving them to deal with academic guests in the household or elderly parents who need food and entertainment!

There are lots of colleagues I know who think number jokes are funny etc but are fully functional and caring dps to their wives and husbands. And caring parents to their kids too. Yours just sounds like a selfish arse.

Thanks DrCrab - you clearly recognise the syndrome. I think it's entirely possible these work-obsessed people are somewhat "spectrumy" - the difference between him and me is that i recognise I don't fit in and need to change - he doesn't (and nor do these driven academics who never shut up about their own frankly non mindblowing work).

It could be worse - my father was a "I am a good family man and you are dysfunctional for spending too much time at work" person at work, and a "Go away I'm too busy, I am a career man and you are an idiot" at home. DP's consistency has its merits...

Respect is hard to define. People who have firm ideas about it often don't live up to the ideas. But it does seem to be a key point in this messy set of thoughts.

Food for thought all round here.

I know of another colleague. He's a head of his school/dept and his wife is long suffering too. She is also an academic but apparently because she's at the lesser known uni and clearly the woman, she does all the work and he doesn't recognize her good work. The one time she offered to help at an NCT event, he huffed and puffed and pointed to his watch whilst she tried to help us (the NCT team). He was apparently v annoyed that he had to babysit his only daughter (who at that time was 2/3 years old - so fairly able to communicate, eat most things etcetc) - ie not a baby. She also was almost always late for meetings because she had to prepare everything at home and sort daughter out. He wouldn't do a thing.

He also is in the habit of sending emails at 6am in the morning and late at night (well I send emails late in the night too but that's coz I have the iPhone). That indicated to me that he was actually getting up and checking emails and not getting up because his daughter's awake (if that makes sense).

She's since quit the NCT.

You sound nice.

Your parents and husband sound pretty horrible. It sounds like your parents trained you to be the wife of a husband like yours.

I think you should read your first post again. You know that you should "leave the bastard", you even know it's going to be the answer we give. You have insight into the situation, you just have to act on it.

Also the people who tell you you're lucky to have your DP aren't your friends whoever they are.

Sorry said husband there first, meant dp.

I don't think I can add much to what everyone else has said, though I am tempted to invite you to join my singing group :)

Seriously, do you have friends of your own? Or is part of your DP's appeal to you his social circle/slightly more extrovert habits?

I don't think you'll change him. If he invited friends round and you weren't there would he do lots of catering? Unlikely, I suspect he would order takeaways and leave the parents of little kids to sort their sprogs food out. I think your choices are to refuse to have people round, to go and live elsewhere when you have visitors to make him realise how much hard work it is, to leave him, or to accept you are a bit of a martyr when it comes to looking after his guests but that is what you have chosen to be.
Changing your own expectations or the way you react to someone else is easier than expecting them to change.
Why are you buying his family's xmas and birthday presents? I leave my husband to sort his own out. What made you ever think this was something a modern woman did? It is all a bit 1950s housewife and doing stuff because your 1950s housewife mother did it for your father (as mine did, but now my mother is dead my father is perfectly capable of buying his own presents, and numerous other things that were previously done for him). You resent doing the stuff, you have a job and aren't a housewife, stop doing it.

You care too much. Enough for the both of you. He knows that. He knows you won't slip up and leave it to him or start telling him to buy his own food, entertain his parents/friends etc. he knows that. You know that. The only time you'll stop doing things like that for him is if you leave him.

Besides if he's an academic why can't he be flexible and entertain the parents and friends on the days that he's got no teaching or meetings? Isn't that the point of a job like this? That other than teaching or research meetings there's no real need to sit in the office? (unless he's lab based?!) like for me I really only have to be in the office on Monday and Wednesday. So if there are friends or parents around I can work from home or at least take some time and do the shopping and tidying up!!

Oh and someone told me this this morning...: the only way to change behaviour is if the new behaviour provides a. Incentive to change.

DrCrab - you know how all this works, and you describe what isn't working very well.

2rebecca - see Dr Crab's post. I don't intend to be a 1950s housewife. I do try not to be crap (and not being crap includes sorting out minimal housework, enetertaining guests to a minimal level of messy hospitality, remembering people's birthdays, and being nice, writing letters to the somewhat boring elderly relatives, etc) - to me - these are actions that my Dp should be doing as well, and as often, as me. I also feel (but can't really articulate the reasoning) that if he gave a flying ferret about anything other than himself he might think to initiate activities that aren't all about his social group and his family - things that i might enjoy. It all just feels like living with a slightly aspie 12 year old.

Then I remember that that's how I look to other people...

Look at it from another angle then Anna. This is the way your DP is, and if you ask him to change it's just not fair to him. You can't stay with someone on the condition that they'll change fundamental aspects of their personality - either you accept them for who they are or you move on and allow them to be with someone who will accept them. Imagine if your DP came along tomorrow and said "Anna, I don't like all this Asperger's stuff, I want you to be more intuitive when reading people..." and so on. How would you feel?

You have to assume that the way things are now are the way things are going to stay. If you're happy with that, great, continue to build your life together. If you're not happy with it then it might be time to move on.

CailinDana - yep.

(Anna, I think I would like to invite you for dinner so you could talk number theory at me. I had this friend, a drummer, who basically said that music teachers should teach maths, and vice versa, as number theory in music would heighten your understanding of maths, and vice versa. Fascinating. Way above me, but my 9 year old might enjoy it and understand it more....)

I feel for you, because this relationship seems so one sided to me, you give and give and, he takes and takes. And all he bring to the relationship is to appear to understand you and your world. I dont understand who has given you the idea that only he can do this, and others call you spaz, etc. Hopefully not him?

I am quite sure there are other men out there capable of liking you, understanding you, and loving you. You seem lovely.

No - not him - a lot of people in my family, and at school - now a long time ago, but that kind of thing sticks if it's said often enough. From university onwards people have been polite, but usually distant, though penultimate boyfriend reintroduced the lists of inadequacies that my mother has always listed (she started the "spaz" thing - she was a sports teacher before she had children - i was a perennial disappointment).

Anyway, I guess it's all about working out what I can do, not what i can't... and trying to sort out what I want out of life and if it's compatible with staying with DP. I suspect it isn't. Ironically his conference that started all this angst is in Reykjavik. Cold war talks anyone?

Well, your mother's insults are pretty horrible for a start; I feel sorry for the children she taught, and with somebody like this everything you ever do will be wrong.

I might be speaking out of turn here, but is there a chance that you're over-compensating for the AS by doing all the caring/emotional stuff, perhaps because you don't trust your own internal judgment about typical levels of emotional engagement?

Your DP is taking advantage of you. In most households, if friends of just one partner planned to visit and the partner planned to be away, then the visit would be postponed. Using up all of your annual leave to service the needs of perfectly capable adults with little or no connection to you isn't the way most relationships operate.

When do the two of you have fun together? Now should be a time when you can have fun holidays, weekends doing things you enjoy, going places. Do you love each other? Do you want the rest of your life to be like this? Because there's no reason for him to change. He's got a better deal than an unpaid housekeeper, he's actually got a housekeeper who pays her own share and acts as a carer for his family too, while he invests all of his emotional energy into his friends.

You sound like fascinating company, and a caring loving person. You deserve better than this.

You know, I very rarely take time off work when we have people visiting. I let them do their own thing in the day time, and then we meet up after work.

When they come to visit, they are aware that unless on the weekend, I work, we both do, so they need to fit in with our schedule. They can of course have a lie in, it is nothing to do with me.

I think this is the way it is usually done.

Any chance you can just NOT take annual leave for visitors, but let them get on with sight seeing, or whatever in the day?

If your dp is not taking annual leave for his friends visiting, why should you?

Reading back your op...

As for his parents? I think you can let a pair of 77 year olds lose in London, unless very frail.

With a map, an idea of where to go, addresses to various nice tea rooms, museums and parks, how to catch a cab, your address and a spare key in their pocket, they will be fine.

You should not mother his parents, if he doesn't.
And if they need mothering, your boundaries and refusal to be blackmailed into caring for them, might force him to step up.

I think you need to think about how you can set some firm boundaries regards to family and stick to it. Right now, you are buckling to his pressure, and you give out the idea that your job is indeed less important than him.

You are putting your self not in the role of somebody who is caring, but a doormat, and I think you need to be more firm.

I think if you want him to change the person you want is someone else. I would spend my time looking for them.