DP's career and family always come first

[Anna1976]

So what, you say...

the minor difference is that we don't have kids... i have a slightly more high-powered career than he does... and a while back we had a conversation about priorities having to change if kids were going to happen.

Since then, I have used up my own annual leave to singlehandedly shop for, cook for, and entertain his elderly parents, because he was too busy with work and couldn't understand that you don't leave a couple of 77+ year olds at a loose end in central london... i have left alone my own elderly parents because he threw a strop about me not coming to all his family events..... and now he's off to a conference, leaving me using my annual leave once again, to shop for, cook for and entertain friends coming to visit him (not me, they don't like me), because he has invited them to our flat and can't see the problem and is saying "well just get some takeaways, you earn enough" - great - takeaways for the 1 & 3 year old kids, for example.

Now i know there could be a middle ground, i could tell his family and friends to entertain themselves - but frankly I am fed up with him never changing his priorities. A big part of his self-definition is what a lovely set of friends and a lovely family he has - but it's always me doing all the bloody work, me buying the christmas and birthday presents, me doing all the cooking when they come to visit, me entertaining them as opposed to just talking about my own career...

Oh and he doesn't do holidays, except to visit his family. He has never initiated any activity that hasn't been a social occasion with his friends... no concerts, no art galleries, no films, no museums, no holidays, unless I organise the lot - and if we do anything like that, he spends most of the time talking about his work.

Anyone got more positive solutions than "leave the bastard"? At the moment it sounds quite attractive... I could use my annual leave to go on holidays/to concerts, mseums, galleries by myself and enjoy the lack of discussion of "D"P's work...

He is using you as a support system for his lifestyle and you are being silly enough to comply. Leave him.

Okay simple solution: leave him.

More complex, never use you annual leave to get him out of a hole. If his parents come; either be busy at work, or have already planned to go away. If his friends who don't like you come, go away, you can even tell them " I know you don't like me much so I thought this would be a great time for you to have H to yourself". If you want to go on holiday, then do so, you can mention it to him in passing, but if he doesn't step up, go by yourself or with a girl friend. Go and see your parents, ignore his whines and do it. Get yourself a life.
There is a slim chance he may change, there is probably a bigger one that you will stop having room or time in your life for him.

if he's like this when it's just you 2, he will be a nightmare with dc. Trust me. I learnt very very late not to do everything for dh, and I'm a SAHM so I guess it's easier to slip into the parenting role. You are both working and have no dc. There's no excuse for such outrageous inequality. And it sounds totally self imposed. His parents survived all this time before you came along you know.

You are willingly taking on the mantle of mug, but complaining about it at the same time. It will be 100 times worse with kids.

So what if the cousin left. And then came back. Why is she considered flighty? Why does her actions have any bearing on yours? Why do you care if his family consider you flighty if you call it a day?

And as for your wish list?! I caution strongly against having too narrow an idea of the ideal partner. V. few things on your 'wish list' (kind, helpful, sociable, insightful academic in his mid-30s, with a good understanding of maths and humanity; humility; a good sporty side (not too competitive or aggressive), and a talent for music and enjoyment of singing? Just one who doesn't behave like a selfish 12 year old most of the time?) are important. Yet your dp doesn't make this grade but you stick by him?

Honestly try to picture the situation with 2 v. young children, will he take time off if they're poorly, will he help with night feeds, do the bed time routine, carry on going out and expecting you to deal with everything and still rustle up a nice dinner (cos you've just been sitting around at home all day). How will you cope with the exhaustion and isolation if he is not considerate and sociable and helpful now?

As others have said. You can only change yourself, not him. And I would do so pronto

I've got a thirty-four year old son who would fit the bill apart from the music and singing! Oxford English grad who works in computing but not a geek. And you wouldn't have to look after me and DH - we had him young so are not too senile to shop for and amuse ourselves.

Just a thought.

Make a list - well, two lists. All the things you do (helping his parents, shopping, washing). All the things he does. (Shopping once in a blue moon, hanging up his own washing.) Yours will be a long list and his will be very short.... Cross out the names at the top and write your name above his list and his above yours. Pin it up and tell him this is the Shape of Things to Come! Oh, and stick to it .

Actually, in your case maybe that doesn't go far enough. You could also edit some of the items in the list (e.g. replace 'his parents' with 'your parents', 'his friends' wth 'your friends').

You seem to have a strange idea of relationships. You seem to think that the aim is to find someone who ticks a few very shallow boxes and then to do anything to hang onto that person regardless of how they treat you. On paper he sounds like an interesting sort of guy, yes, but there doesn't seem to actually be a relationship between you at all. He does what he likes and you run around after him feeling resentful and hoping he'll change.

A good relationship involves two people really engaging with each other on all levels. They don't necessarily have to like the same music or even have much in common as long as they truly respect one another and add something really positive to each other's lives. Dump this loser and look for someone you truly click with, someone who really makes you smile, someone who actually, genuinely cares about you.

Anna I'm really saddened by your checklist and what you understand to be normal within a relationship. ATM as far as I can see you are enabling him to continue behaving like a teenager "he'll do the shopping if I tell him exactly what to get" and "he'll do the washing but leave mine on the floor". This is what a sulky teenagrer does when they get nagged enough by a parent to join in with the housekeeping.

FWIW dh regularly does the big shop (and sometimes takes one or more child with him!) cooks, does washing and ironing etc etc. He is able to do all the jobs around the house that I do (apart from DIY and normally does so without any debate, if it needs doing one of us does it.

I had a hard time after dc3 was born not pnd but everything was definitely much harder work I am now coming through the other side of that but he defintely stood up to the plate and took more than his fair share. This is how my relationship works he is not perfect with the family stress (dc2 has a life limiting condition) he started (secretly) drinking we have worked on this but there are cracks, I guess what I'm saying is no man one is perfect but the relationship is a partnership where both parties work together.

Personally if you are considering children at some point in the future think very hard about your options now, this looks very much like the kind of man who will not be help or support to you raising a family. He'll be there for the glory but forget it for the drudge (and believe me there is plenty of that!)

Good luck

Ooh, are we playing Find Anna a less nobby new partner?

Could we interest you in a 40-ish, shy academic with a startling resemblance to Harry Potter (the illustrations, not the film)? Sings, plays oboe, self-cleaning, looks after his parents and cooks brilliantly?

OK, you might notice that he's still using a plastic garden set instead of a dining table, because it does the job, but the food on the top would be good.

Expecting someone to change and making this a condition of your staying is utterly pointless. People don't change. Get out now and find someone nicer. He sounds like a tosser tbh - thoughtless and selfish to a fault.

Loving the MN Soulmates

Anna life is too short to waste on users. Get rid of him. He won't change because he will find another sap woman to pander to his needs. I think you should consider some of the alternatives on offer here...... actually, I think you should consider that having a partner is not the be all and end all of everything. Good luck

Assuming you're 35 / 36 your list of requirements is a bit....erm...clinical.

All those things in common really doesn't a marriage make.

Why not just try and meet a nice bloke who has vaguely the same life aspirations as you and who views you as an equal.

Sanity and sobriety assumed, nothing else matters.

Everything that Ernest said. If this is what he's like pre-children, I wouldn't even dream of reproducing with him or you will end up making all the sacrifices (career, free time, friends and family, interests) while he carries on blithely.

And I agree your list is odd. The important thing is what someone is like underneath and how you get on with (and respect) each other, not their age, career or what they are "into" - in fact often the best relationships (in my experience) are when you don't have exactly the same interests, so you have something to learn from each other and can broaden each other's horizons. But it has to go alongside respect, consideration and caring for each other.

Your relationship honestly sounds as though you would be better suited as (casual) friends - that way you would still get to share his "insights" and mutual interests, but without feeling you have to keep making sacrifices - and more importantly, without him getting in the way of you being able to find a real "partner".

A number of men do this pathetic "oh but you're so good at stuff like that" routine when it coimes to buying presents, organising family & friend events, or indeed, housework. Which is bad enough. But "at least" some of those types would still acknowledge that your family and friends are important to you and would make some sort of effort to be pleasant and thoughtful to them, would accept that it's polite to attend special occasions with you and so on.

This one though .... not only is he treating you like an unpaid concierge (admittedly, you're letting him, but I do see that if you have a kind heart and a basic idea of manners, you'd feel somewhat obliged to go through the motions of hopsitality) but he is also, and perhaps more importantly, stating that his friends and family are more important ... though why the heck that should be the case I don't know - does he consider himself some sort of superior being ?

The first issue - taking advantage of you - could be put down to laziness, and what he can get away with. But the second issue is just plain unpleasant and far from what should be happening in a so called relationship of equals. You do NOT want to reach a point in your life when either one or both of your parents have passed away and you suddenly realise how much time you could have had with them had it not been for running around doing stuff for him.

I'm not sure someone quite so selfish can ever change. How dare he strop if you miss out on his family events, yet doesn't see anything wrong if he doesn't attend yours. That's the mark of a very arrogant man, and not sonmeone I'd want to have kids with.

The OP is long gone

( and I suspect crying into her Chardonnay )

I do hope she's lurking though as there has been a lot of sense on the is thread.

Why didn't you tell him to cancel the friends coming who don't even like you?

Im not sure how to say it nicely so I'll be blunt . . . you're being a mug!

It's interesting that the first requirements on your checklist were a man who is kind, caring and sociable. Well he isn't any of these. Sociable only with his family and friends not you.

So yes time to have a big chat with him, however I do not think he will change. He doesn't sound kind at all more selfish, self absorbed and cocky/arrogant.

I think it's time to jump ship.

My helpful answer is: for gods sake woman get some self respect and leave the bastard.

Oh make sure you don't get pregnant by this loser.

DrowninginDuplo: My helpful answer is: for gods sake woman get some self respect and leave the bastard.

What she said.

He is not going to change. However much you put your foot down, refuse to do what he asks, go out when his friends visit ( and why, if they don't like you, are they staying in your home?) he will not change.

Just cos he's better than the others doesn't mean he's a keeper

Seriously, what does he bring to he relationship?

I'm back, having been to work - many thanks for all the sense here.

Anyone who remembers previous threads of mine may remember that i have Asperger's - so what sounds like a shallow list to many of you is actually a bit deeper than it might seem. He is fairly good at interpreting the world for me. He is also good at deflecting family attention away from me (my family are difficult). He seems to like? love? me for who I am, rather than call me a spaz and tell me I'm an idiot and a failure, which is how I seem to appear to most of the world. Not saying that someone else wouldn't be able to do these things - merely, this is what he brings to the relationship.

I learned growing up that a lot of people talk a lot of crap about shared goals and ideals about life and that what one person thinks is sticking to wonderful life goals (devoting yourself to family like a good 1950s catholic) is actually just being crap and lazy, slagging off harder-working colleagues, and covering up for being pretty shit at your job and pretty shit at family, to someone else. So I have always been wary of people who have things to say about the big life goals. I seem now to have gone too far in the other direction in that DP seems not to have any goals, and definitely wouldn't prioritize family.

I have no intention of getting pregnant by the way - it could have been an option if any of those discussions about What Would Have To Change had ever gone anywhere but into thin air... I don't like other people enough to raise kids on my own. I clearly don't know how to run my own life let alone someone else's.

btw Lancelottie and RoxyRobin - they sound nice, thanks

I should probably just quit my jobs, put my stuff in storage and go and work in Africa for a while. A bit like the initial running away from home to come to the UK for university, but at least it would be doing other people some good.

Anna, before I got to your last post I wondered if you have an autistic spectrum condition. Knowing now that you have AS your list makes a lot of sense to me.

thanks architeuthis (good name BTW). Yes - "liking music" isn't just "OMG he HAS to like COLDPLAY or I won't go out with him!" -it's if you didn't like Tallis or Stanford you'd actually have a bloody hard time living with me. And i would find you nice but unliveably boring if you couldn't talk about number theory over dinner. And if you were not kind, you would probably not like me. I am not generally likeable.

My parents despair of me that I am incapable of leading a normal life.
Mild evidence to the contrary (numerous degrees and professional qualification and having lots of students of my own) hasn't convinced me that I know how to be an adult or run a relationship successfully.

I guess i don't want to throw away the opportunity. It may be that this is as good as it gets for someone like me - people have often told me I'm lucky to have DP (i don't think they say the same to him about me). Looking back on my life i suspect that AS should perhaps have defined more of me - and that i have appeared arrogant out of proportion to my abilities and rather restricted insights.

That being the context - maybe I need help with negotiation skills - talking to him so that requests to change priorities don't just go over his head.

OP, you shouldn't be in a relationship just to be in a relationship. It's not this man until another one comes along to replace him, you could be single.