Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Very murky behaviour from XP - or is it? Am so utterly saddened by this

179 replies

LowFlyingBirds · 27/02/2012 11:46

Namechange as the background of this would be recognisable to anyone in RL.

ExP and I have stayed very, very good friends since splitting almost 4 years ago.

last month he recieved extremely bad news about his fathers health, he asked if i would go (along with our son) to his fathers home country. Did so that day and he very sadly died within days.

I found xp's behaviour very difficult to understand and it made an awful situation so much worse, he had been seeing someone for about 5 weeks and spent the run uo to his fathers death and the week or so after glued to his phone. It felt like we were in the way and I was struggling to understand why he wanted us there at all.

Tried to grin and bear it but came to a head after he let slip he had asked her to come out too, when she couldnt he was going to return to uk 5 days after his father died so he could keep a pre-arranged 'date' with her. I lost it with him at this point as i had been asking if we (me and ds) could return as I was worried about school and feeling very uncomfortable and drained byeverything there. He said no, or rather made me feel terrible for wanting to leave, so we stayed.

He agreed it would be completely wrong for him to leave, his mum needed him and we were there supposedly to support him.

It also became very clear that the nature of their conversations and constant messaging was not about support or any deep feelings they had for each other (which I could understand) but it was pretty much about sex Sad grubby pictures, her relaying stories about threesomes, nights outs etc.

Huge fight ensued, i felt i didnt have a clue who this man was. he then seemed to really get how it looked, how their behaviour was making a mockery of the awful situation we were all trying to deal with. He was full of remorse and anger at himself and at her. Said he was using it as an escape and could see now that she absolutely expoited his weak position because she craves attention constantly. He told her to back off (they had been messaging constantly every day, talking and video calling every chance ) told her he was ashamed of his behaviour.

She didnt take this well and demanded he talk to her (ive seen the messages) every day there would be a new drama from her, or she would try to make him jealous, even as far as telling him all about the men who were after her on the day of the funeral. He said at this point he couldnt believe how sucked in he got by her and that he could see she was a very unpleasnt person. He told her it was over.

Ive always really looked up to him, and all of this really shook how I saw him but after lots of talking, i decided to try and think of his behaviour as a blip caused by the situation. We felt closer than we probably ever have and I have continued to support him since we all returned.

I have now found out that he shagged her the first opportunity he got. They have both made an utter mockery of his fathers death, his remorse means nothing now. If he meant a word of what he said he wouldnt be able to be in the same room as her let alone fuck her. And she didnt give a flying fuck about any of what was happening and she's got a massive pat on the back for it.

I feel like they are both terribly proud of what theyve done. And im devesated, cant even make sense of it.

Am i wrong in seeing this as awful behaviour? I honestly cant see straight. It feels awful, really dont think i ever knew him at all.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 27/02/2012 20:18

so, he painted her in a bad light to you (and others, probably)

you have discovered he has painted you in a bad light to others (and her, probably)

he's not looking like a great guy, and certainly not anyone you should be feeling "easy" around

with friends like that...

LowFlyingBirds · 27/02/2012 20:21

To be fait, AF, he showed me the messages. I saw what she sent and his replies (ostensibly because he wanted my opinion on whether he was judging her harshly) It honestly would be hard not to see her any othe way, but yes, absolutely take your point.

OP posts:
Nyac · 27/02/2012 20:23

So why don't you say what you're not saying. What's stopping you?

It just seems super-complicated. Where did you get the idea that relationships have to be like that, even ones that are over?

LowFlyingBirds · 27/02/2012 20:24

I didnt startvoff with any bad feelings towards her btw. We actually talked on the phone, before it all went haywire, and i liked her.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 27/02/2012 20:25

he was asking you to collude in his disrespect of her

and you did

you had no business being shown, nor looking, at private messages between him and her

you need to think very carefully about why he showed them to you, and why you had such a strong reaction to what is actually nothing to do with you

and also, why you still think he is a good guy

LowFlyingBirds · 27/02/2012 20:25

Ah, i pretty much said it all in that last long post.

OP posts:
Nyac · 27/02/2012 20:26

I think it's the "father of the children" thing. Women don't want to admit that they had a child with a dud, so they hold on to his goodness instead of looking at the kind of person he actually is.

You shouldn't even have an opinion about your ex's gf except perhaps in the most distant kind of way.

LowFlyingBirds · 27/02/2012 20:30

Yes i should never have been party to what went on with them and wunder normal circumstances this would never have happened. I felt pretty overwhelmed by the entire situation, not helped by the fact i desperately wanted to leave.

Have never got involved in any other relatipnships of his btw, this isntva pattern.

OP posts:
Nyac · 27/02/2012 20:31

Are you going to disengage lowflying?

AnyFucker · 27/02/2012 20:32

I am not having a go at you, love

AnyFucker · 27/02/2012 20:33

what I am trying to say is, you need to examine his behaviour with a clear and unstinting eye

hers is immaterial

LowFlyingBirds · 27/02/2012 20:34

Really, what happened is not the issue. Its the fact that i have, rightly or wrongly, had all my faith in him shaken.

And i know it sounds wanky but that is big for me. Hes important, forget hes my ex for a minute, he is or was a very close friend and someone i trusted massively.

I just have to figure out whether i am right to now think as badly of him as i do.

OP posts:
Eurostar · 27/02/2012 20:39

As others have said, wanting sex and feeling sexual when faced with death is not so unusual. Sex is a sure sign that we are alive and the endorphins dull the pain.

That aside, there is a strong picture coming through here of you being taken for granted and used by this man. Time to stop being his confessor I would say. He appears to have been able to do a number on you, with you believing his propaganda that he is the moral one and you are faulty in some way.

What he is doing sounds very similar to what you read on here with men who leave wives for OW and then, start to treat the wife like an OW, criticising their current partner and often trying to be sexual with both.

LowFlyingBirds · 27/02/2012 20:42

Yes, hers is immaterial. Absolutely!

The reason it matters though, is what it says about him that he went back to where they left off. After all he said.

And yes i know, i know i shouldnt care, its none of my fucking business! I honestly agree with all that. Im not here saying how i feel is right or normal or rational. Im merely saying this is how i feel and i need to make sense of it.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 27/02/2012 20:43

spot on, euro

OP, you need to start looking at the bigger picture here

the financial side is very, very worrying to me

this man is not who you thought he is

time to get everything on an official footing, like I said upthread

protect your child

the way things are at the moment, if you piss him off, he could very easily walk away and not fulfil his responsibilities

Nyac · 27/02/2012 20:47

I think you need to stop worrying about your feelings and start looking at the actual situation. Your feelings have led you up the garden path here, better to focus on reality.

LowFlyingBirds · 27/02/2012 20:50

Im feeling now like the weird behaviour and the gf part of things are not the issue and not important. Think i have just needed to get it all off my chest though.

Its all the other, real stuff i need to look at now. How he views me and whether or not our 'frienship' is a friendship at all.

OP posts:
LowFlyingBirds · 27/02/2012 20:50

Ha...xpost nyac!

OP posts:
VanderElsken · 27/02/2012 20:50

If you are deep down wondering if your response means you still 'have feelings' for him, no, it does not. It means you felt embarrassed, humiliated betrayed, faintly disgusted and then therefore angry. You also probably felt that you could get back together with him if you both wanted and now a part of you is pissed off that there is this strange obstacle in the way of that option called 'his recent behaviour'. Why was your 'faith' in him so important? It's not faith in his behaviour as a father is it? It's faith in his sexual and romantic and fidelitous behaviour. You have been keeping him as a quiet option.

Most importantly, I would not think seriously about any relationship offer or discussion during/after someone has been so profoundly bereaved.

What you have also said reveals that his GF was RIGHT to feel threatened by you and your relationship with him so all this, 'We are just good friends' and 'We're just really close exes' is just not true. I know you won't hear that right now but I am close to a number of my exes and I would NEVER consider getting back with any of them(!) Nor they with me. it's just past that point, loving but entirely dead and sexless and benign. If anyone still has feelings for anyone you need to detach. Stop fooling yourself this is unromantic. those conversations don't happen in an unromantic environment. They just don't. You have an ownership stake over him and she sensed that. don't pretend your presence doesn't affect their relationship, it affected yours.

Whether you are 'right' to be angry with him is immaterial. You are having conversations like, 'Did you just tell me things about her that you wanted me to hear?' This relationship isn't really over. Separate or not, but don't pretend it's what it isn't.

Nyac · 27/02/2012 20:53

The weird behaviour and the gf part of things shows exactly how he views you. They are what have opened your eyes so it would be a mistake to pretend they aren't real. They really did happen. He really did act like that in front of you.

Why is this still a question for you?

LowFlyingBirds · 27/02/2012 21:00

Yes but as everyone is also saying, nyac, i really have no right to judge him. His relationshps are his.

OP posts:
AyeRobot · 27/02/2012 21:02

LowFlyingBirds, what a mess. It must be doing your head in.

How do you define friendship? Would you be this enmeshed with anyone else that you define as a friend?

As always in inter-personal problems, this is a boundary issue. Boundaries as co-parents, boundaries as exes, boundaries as partners, boundaries as friends. They have all become muddled. Can you start to disentangle them?

Nyac · 27/02/2012 21:03

Not when he's involving you in them as he has. If he does that you've got every right to judge him, especially how he's treating you in relation to it.

Seriously how have you ended up with the idea that relationships are this weird and complicated and it's your job as a woman to worship the guy you're with and never criticise him, even when it's over (except in a lot of ways it's not).

I said come to the feminism section, well over there we do judge men like this. Why aren't you?

LowFlyingBirds · 27/02/2012 21:05

Whincing again, VE.

Although i am not sure she was threatened at all by my presence. I only suspect her of the email based on xp's reaction when i told him about it. Hers was the first name he mentioned.

Its also honestly the case that ubtil we were there over this period our relationship was entirely platonic, sexless, unromantic. And he would have absolutely down played my presence, he doesnt do mind games and would not have tried to make her feel uneasy. So theres no actual proof that she did feel threatened.

OP posts:
LowFlyingBirds · 27/02/2012 21:09

Yes i NEED and WANT to disentangle it all.

I have disengaged completely and said i can no longer be the person he looks to when needing support. It worked for a few days but now hes trying to use me as a counsellor again. And i feel shit turning him away, his dad is dead and hes struggling.

OP posts: