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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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DV: Advice from someone who turned their R around (so worth it)

337 replies

Abitwobblynow · 06/02/2012 04:19

This is an extract from KIM COOPER's book 'Through the Looking Glass' It is available on download and you search narcissismcured.com The comment at the end is from her now-grown-up husband explaining things from his point of view and what her behaviour did for him.

Step 4. If he is Intimidating Call The Police
Again, when you call the police, don?t expect miracles or be overly emotional with them. If they ask what you want them to do, say, ?I want you to tell him what the consequences will be if he continues to intimidate/threaten/assault me.? If he runs away when the police come, you can still talk to them and make sure it is on record and that he knows you reported it. Still, you need to insist that they talk to him directly about the consequences of his behaviour. While they are talking to you, try to do it out of his earshot but where he can still see you, so he is left wondering what has been said. (Say, ?Can I talk to you over there?? and point to where you want to move the conversation). This is a really important point that the police taught me. One officer talked to me for twenty minutes, leaving Steve waiting where he could see us. He said, ?See, he is wondering now what we are talking about and let him wonder!?
You need to let him know that you will not tolerate emotional or physical intimidation and that he is going to have to deal with the consequences, not you. If you have already gone in to the police and spoken to the head of D.V. (domestic violence) it will help a lot. Just knowing this person?s name will make the police attending respect you better. In my case I got an AVO (apprehended violence order) on Steve (where he could still remain living with us) and this was very worthwhile. This was in Australia and I don?t know if they have something similar where you live but I hope so. Once the order is in place, if he intimidates or hits you again, he will go straight to jail. If he needs to go to jail to see you are serious about this boundary, so be it. You mustn?t try and protect him from the consequences of his bad behaviour.
The court brought us back three times on the assault charge that precipitated the order. I found this frustrating, but in retrospect it was important. Each time they said Steve was not ready and had to prepare better. This taught him that his bad treatment of me was more serious than he had thought. The male judge and police officers in the court room looked very disapproving and that helped too! Many men who mistreat their wives grew up with men who did the same, so Steve seeing these men who were respected and in authority really disapproved of his behaviour was a big wake up call. Their disapproval really sunk in and made a big change in him. The judge also thanked me for my time and even commented how nicely groomed I was. This might have been because I had made the effort to make friends with the police, but whatever reason it was a very good day for me. They made me feel very solid, strong and supported and showed Steve he was on shaky ground.
Some men whose wives assault them do not feel they can get the police to help. If this is your situation, I think it is important that you do. You do not have to play victim in court or with the police, but instead you might want to say that you are concerned about her behaviour and that she needs to learn it is not okay and that you do not want to be forced to restrain her or play policeman in your own home. The truth is that women, just like men, can be very scary and dangerous when they are violent.
The AVO helped us because Steve then knew that if he intimidated, threatened or hurt me again (and in his case one of the provisions of the order was that he could not drink at home or
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come home if he had been drinking) and I decided to call the police, he would be put straight in jail. This was important. He learned that he no longer had the upper hand and was not going to get away with sweet-talking anyone anymore. The power balance was now swinging in my favour.
If you can get a provision like this (that he can?t come home if he has been drinking, or something very easy to prove) in the AVO, it is really good, then it is not about the police taking sides. Once the AVO is in place, if you call and he is at home and has been drinking, he gets locked up, that?s it, no telling stories. He does not have the chance to charm anyone or provoke a fight, or confabulate and confuse things. I would still let Steve drink, but he knew there was a line in place and what would happen if he crossed it.
Fortunately, I never had to have Steve put in jail, but that was only because he knew I would call without hesitation if he ever tried to intimidate me again.
This will be a big disincentive to your partner continuing to disrespect you, but you have to be prepared to go through with it. Again, the only reason I didn?t have to have Steve put in jail was because he saw without a doubt I would do it. This is really important - as threats won?t work, he has to know you mean it, and that will probably involve you having the police over a few times. Don?t call them as a threat or because you are angry, call them if you feel you need protection. The sooner you do this and the calmer you are about it (?Honey, I don?t know how to handle you when you are like this so I think I am going to need to get the police here to talk to you?) the more effective this will be. You might also choose to quietly call first, then explain this, or he may try to stop you.
He might tell you he is not in control of his behaviour, but I am telling you that he only intimidates or puts people down who he thinks are weaker than he is. He?s not insulting big guys in bars, he makes decisions about who he can get away with this behaviour with. You need to become the wrong person for him to pick on.
This was quite troubling for me. The experience of court was horrible. I realised that I had made a terrible mistake and that the law was there to punish me. The D.V. officer from the police explained the terms of my Apprehended Violence Order and they were that I was to obey the terms or be thrown in jail. His words were simple and matter of fact, ?Prison is a tough place to survive.? That was enough for me, but I DID need to be told. Kim was sad the day we went to court, I could see that she was very disappointed that our relationship had come to this, but she kept a brave face and knew she was doing the right thing. This experience I will remember forever, and I cannot ever have my conviction for ?common assault? overturned. Society, through a magistrate, was able to make a statement to me that my behaviour was unacceptable. I had crossed a boundary that I obviously had no respect for. Steve

OP posts:
singingprincess · 06/02/2012 20:17

I did the freedom programme. It was a real eye opener. I can't recommend it highly enough, OP.

dollymixtures · 06/02/2012 20:20

"during my studies one of the insoluble problems of solving DV is the tenacious bond that people have with eachother. I remember the puzzlement of the academic books recording women going back again and again to their partners."

Then you ought to read some different books because I think most people who have researched domestic abuse are pretty clear about the myriad reasons people return to their abusers. I'm no academic and have never personally experienced domestic abuse but I can understand the reasons. DV isn't about a tenacious bond Hmm it doesn't indicate some Romeo and Juliet grand passion it indicates inadequacy, insecurity and sadism.

Whoever wrote this 'article' doesn't seem to have a clue about the wider context of violence either, the constant belittling; the gradual isolation; the increasing control over insignificant issues until control is absolute. This isn't research it's just badly written, unevidenced, poorly contextualised opinion.

Can I also point out that luckily in the UK securing the interest of the police in a crime isn't reliant on striking up a relationship with them? Hmm

Onesunnymorningin2012 · 06/02/2012 21:01

Am bitterly PMSL at the idea that a visit from a nice policeman will stop most abusers in their tracks.

Legobuildingpro · 06/02/2012 21:28

^^^^^^

Yeah Ofc it does for a few days, months if your lucky, then they just do it quietly, or choke you, suffocate you so you cant make sounds, or not "punch" you.

Yeah Ofc they reform for a day. Bitterly psml laughing with you.

MadameOvary · 06/02/2012 21:54

Fucking horrible that people are making money out of vulnerable women. I was one of them. I wanted the abuse to stop. It took phenomenal amounts of time and resources from many different people to get me to the place where I said "Fuck this, I really can do without it"
These women dont need to learn to adapt to life with an abuser. They need to learn that a) These men will not change. b) That this is unacceptable behaviour by anyone's standards and c) With the addition of some self-respect, it's amazing how your viewpoint changes and your standards rise, and getting out and being on your own for a bit just makes sense.
That's just for starters.
I think DV should be a entire course of study mandatory for Health Professionals and the Police (dream on, MO)

QueenofWhatever · 06/02/2012 21:55

Crap and tripe. I tried to leave for several years, he was having none of it. I did not want to save our 'relationship'. A nice month long stay in hospital helped enormously.

LurcioLovesFrankie · 06/02/2012 22:05

2 women a week are killed by their partners or ex partners. You are talking out of your arse, OP, and I hope this thread does get deleted.

noddyholder · 06/02/2012 22:09

This is all about convincing the woman to stay by convincing her she has had some sort of hand in his being aggressive.

Jux · 06/02/2012 22:26

Agree MadameOvary, but I would add that dv should be an entire mandatory course in secondary school.

swallowedAfly · 06/02/2012 22:41

given the amount of girls who experience violence and forced sexual contact from boyfriends and beyond i'd say secondary school is more of a course in normalising it and grooming Sad

CrystalsAreCool · 07/02/2012 08:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

swallowedAfly · 07/02/2012 08:34

i have no idea. how to live with a violent arsehole who wants to hurt you and feels no respect for you. why would such a how to guide be needed unless you were a prisoner of war or something?

MadameOvary · 07/02/2012 09:40

Absolutely Jux
Till then I'll be making sure DD gets the message from as young as possible.

AnyFucker · 07/02/2012 09:41

and the boys !

Chubfuddler · 07/02/2012 09:44

I'm already teaching my four year old that you don't do anything physical to a person, even if you mean it nicely, if they don't want you to.

HoudiniHissy · 07/02/2012 09:48

My journo alarm has gone off.

I say bring back hanging for DV perps, that's the only way to cure the fuckers.

saves shit loads of resources too, money that can be better spent on normal people.

MardyArsedMidlander · 07/02/2012 09:53

Rather than live again with a violent man who promised to only do it because he loved me- I'd rather just start a relationship with a serial killer in jail. At least that way he couldn't hit me.
My ex's version of ways I was 'controlling' him?- asking him not to drink and then speed on the motorway. We then had a crash and it was 'my fault' because I wouldn't let him drive fast enough.
Trying to ring the police, or leave?- He kicked me in the leg, then knelt on my chest so I couldn't get up.

StewieGriffinsMom · 07/02/2012 09:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

solidgoldbrass · 07/02/2012 09:56

I think this thread should stay on the grounds that maybe it will show up when searches lead people to the charlatans promoted in the OP. And then the searches will get to read the advice on the rest of the thread, which may be more helpful.

basic · 07/02/2012 10:00

IME studies are way off the mark (bit like books on child-rearing) unless you are in the situation or have experienced the situation (and each one is different with different individuals and so different factors). It is very easy to write about such things and analysis such situations. When you experience the real world then you can offer help and understanding but never know, not really know, what is best/how it is best to deal with bad experiences.

singingprincess · 07/02/2012 10:00

I agree SGB.

This pair pop up all the time on searches around this subject, and vulnerable people need to know that its not helpful, and potentially deadly.

singingprincess · 07/02/2012 10:01

Yes it should be taught in schools, but from my understanding of why men (people)| become like this, the damage is done before they start primary school. :(

singingprincess · 07/02/2012 10:02

basic..Could you clarify what you mean there please?

PeppermintPasty · 07/02/2012 10:03

Agree with SGB. Also, are you ok OP? I've read a few of your posts on this site and, well, are you having/have you had a hard time? What's going on? (said in a sincere and decidedly non-threatening way).

PogueMahone · 07/02/2012 10:26

WTAF, OP?
I'm particularly shocked by the nice piece of victim-blaming where the you say that a victim of DV should "be required to attend co dependency courses (which they would pay for) so they can understand" why they got abused by a cruel bastard? So the victim receives the same 'punishment' as the cruel bastard, who is also sitting in a classroom (instead of jail because he hasn't been caught beating his partner 3 times yet).
And don't get me started on the idea that you should stay with someone who's only not beating you because he's scared of getting arrested...

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